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Guinea Pig Treatment, Possible Overdose, need help

liliumstrings

New Born Pup
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Hi everyone,

I have read these forums for advice in the past but never thought I would be writing for help.

I was wondering if anyone had any advice.

I brought my 6 month old guinea pig, Arnold, (weighed 750 grams) to an emergency vet late evening as he was not eating that day. He had discomfort urinating. I was not overly concerned but wanted to catch any issues early on, he had been eating fine the day before. I saw the vet and they injected him with:

0.18 x Marbocyl SA Injection - Marbofloxacin
0.07 x Metacam Injection Cat - Meloxicam
0.24 x Buprecare M/dose Btl (cd Sch 3 - Buprenorphine

They believed he had a bladder infection. I had a piggy before that had an infection and was treated fine so was reassured. My previous piggy was provided with oral medication so I was wary of the injections but trusted the vet. After providing the medication, the vet told me he would have loose faeces. I was concerned but was happy that would be the only side effect. I was unsure what the above drugs were.

I was then provided the prescribed oral antibiotics and painkillers, along with syringe food formula. This was provided by a nurse at reception. The nurse
explained how to administer the medication through syringes into Arnold’s mouth. I asked when to give the medication and the nurse stated not until the following day. The nurse stated that the syringe food formula can be fed to Arnold once we got home.

Upon driving home, Arnold immediately suffered with diarrhoea. Of course, I was concerned as he had not eaten and further loss of nutrients may worsen his condition however the vet had stated this would be normal. When we arrived home, I placed Arnold on his fabric bed in the sitting room and could see he was limp, eyes wide and watering and breathing shallow, he could not support his own head. He looked for lack of better words 'high' on the medication provided. I was worried as I was not aware of any such side effects.
Nothing of this regard was disclosed to me but I entrusted the vet in the treatment provided. I decided to keep Arnold with me in the sitting room to see if he improved, should he not within the next hour or so, I would call the vet and seek further advice. This was not his condition upon entering the vets. I attempted to feed him the syringe food as suggested
by the nurse but he did not swallow. I did not want to pressure or force feed him in his condition so wiped his mouth clean, removing the excess food.

An hour then passed and Arnold was still zoned out. Then all of a sudden, he started making an unusual coughing sound and started retching. He seized up and started
freaking out and the coughing and retching increased in sound and frequency. I was shocked and placed him on my lap and attempted to look into his mouth and nose to see if they were blocked. An unusual liquid was forming in his mouth and he was breathing in very rapidly. He then began choking and started panicking even further. I panicked and grabbed my phone and started searching for the vet’s number. At which point, Arnold suddenly seized up and passed away. I was very distraught and inconsolable. It was very traumatic to see my pet Arnold pass away in such a horrible way and at such a young age. I was unsure as to why he passed away. It was a simple bladder infection, something I had seen before in a previous guinea pig I owned, one which recovered. Such a sudden turn could not have occurred from a bladder infection.

His lack of eating and difficulty urinating had changed to the following symptoms upon being injected with the three medications:

1. Lethargic/ Unable to support own body weight.
2. Diarrhoea.
3. Shallow breathing.
4. Choking and retching.
5. Wide eyed and spaced out.

As the vet even stated within his report and as disclosed in the appointment, Arnold seemed bright and alert, with only a bladder issue. I caught his symptoms early and attended the vet immediately.

I think to myself that he clearly had a reaction to the medication provided. There is no other possible explanation. He would not have had such a violent turn and such symptoms from bladder issues. I was never told of any side effects of the drugs, only loose faeces.

I have raised a complaint with the vet but thought I would ask here to see whether anyone has had experiences with these drugs and whether his death may likely have been caused by the medication. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
Sorry to hear about this.
I also felt my Bear was overdosed but I stopped with the medication after seeing him having diarrhea. When I brought home Bear from a pet shop, he had many health issues so I took him to the exotic vet immediately. Dr. Jayne, prescribed Baytril for 10 days 2X a day, but only after a few days, he started having diarrhea, so I stopped with the medication immediately.
Bear is now 2 years old and doing well, so I felt it depends on the individual GP how they tolerate the medications. Bear also had other medical issues like fungi but he tolerated coconut oil and bum baths very well, so he is well and best friends to my Finn.
 
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I am really sorry for your loss. If you have a usual vet that you trust you could ask them to look at his care record for a second opinion on what was diagnosed and carried out. I have seen all these drugs used with guinea pigs before but my own personal experience is that metacam is prescribed at a pain relief in the first instance with further pain relief being given as necessary if the metacam does not control the pain. Given that Buprenorphine is opioid based I am not surprised to hear that he seemed a bit spaced out.

Sadly, knowing whether it was just a bladder infection is impossible without undergoing a post mortem (which even then might not give definitive answers). Usually the way it works (as with humans) is to start with the most likely causes and rule them out one by one so I would expect the vast majority of vets would have treated for a bladder/urine infection in the first instance given the symptoms you described.

We do have a guide on bereavement and there is a link to a support helpline if you are struggling (given the traumatic sudden loss it would not be surprising to hear). I'll go dig out the link for you
 
I cannot make any comment on the drug doses, but I have used the drugs themselves in my own piggies with good results. Having witnesses several natural deaths over many years (some even to what should have been a simple urinary issue on the surface but ended up being something underlying) what you describe sounds like the natural dying process and while often extremely unpleasant to witness, it's unlikely he will have been aware of what was going on while his little body was shutting down. Unfortunately they hide pain very well, and by the time they show symptoms complications from the pain, reduced eating, diarrhoea etc can have already taken their toll, the administering of pain relief may have just allowed his body to relax and pass quicker than he otherwise may have.

I hope that at least eases your upset that he suffered at the end, choked etc. Agonal breathing often appears like choking and retching but in reality, the brain is making a last attempt to get oxygen. Its often too late at this point and nothing really can bring them back, nor are they aware of anything while these muscle reflexes are happening.

I'm so sorry for your loss.
 
Hi and welcome

BIG HUGS

I am ever so sorry for your traumatic sudden loss.

It is very normal to have questions after a sudden and traumatic death.

The medication is a pretty low dose of antibiotics, a very low dose of metacam (analgesic) and a higher dose of an opioid (hence the minimal metacam). It reflects the prescribing vet's serious and primary concern about a major pain issue causing the loss of appetite; they would not have prescribed the buprenorphine without a very, very good reason since it is generally only used in more extreme pain treatment. Something more concerning must have gone on but without any scans or x-rays it is impossible to tell. Your boy must however already been in major pain and weakened when examined.
The diarrhoea can be either caused by the pain, by lack of feeding or combination of the two. It can also be a reaction to some medicines.

This argues for either a really bad sterile cystitis (i.e. a non-bacterial bladder infection) right at the upper end of the spectrum (which can cause a very quick decline as it is too strong to be medically controlled at that end) or perhaps more likely a stone being stuck in the ureter between a kidney and the bladder or in the urethra between the bladder and the anus, potentially blocking it. This is extremely painful and can also lead to a very quick decline.
The third option would be a bad reaction to the opioid. Being spaced out is however an acceptable reaction to it. Buprenorphine is used by some vets for extreme pain care in guinea pigs and is considered one of the safer non-licensed extreme pain drugs for them.

Since neither of us is a vet, we can unfortunately not tell what exactly has happened; only a post mortem examination in a specialist clinic may tell - or not. We are just an owner forum and can only go by our own collective experience. At the best, we can make an educated guess; but it always has to stay on that level.

Please be kind with yourself. Your upset and the connected strong feelings tend to come out either as guilt if you are reflecting the loss pack onto yourself or as strong anger if you think that it is somebody else's fault (usually the vet's). Unfortunately, we have to live with unanswered questions in our piggies still all too often. When the chips are down, they are just small animals with a very fast metabolism even though their big personalities usually make us forge that.

Try to envisage your boy free of pain and any suffering; whatever happened, he was at least not in agony when he made his journey to the Rainbow Bridge and that may have actually helped him to let go if his body had already started to close down. The rest of the symptoms are those of a natural dying process (multiple organ failure). Whatever was going on was obviously not nice at all and not quite obvious and easy to diagnose.

In those situations, vets and owners alike can only try and do their best but the outcome are always out of your control.
:(


PS: This guide link here, which contains a chapter on the natural dying process may hopefully help you to put some parts of your traumatic experience into a bit more of a context: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
 
I'm so sorry you had to go through this.

I experienced something remarkably similar last night/this morning too. Going to an out of hours vet with my 4 year old sow with a suspected stroke, who had lack of appetite and was unable to walk properly.

At 7:30 last night she was injected with gut motility meds and pain medication, which I learned later was 0.3ml buprecare (she was 1kg). I couldn't manage to syringe feed her for the first few hours due to her being so out of it; she was eating it off the spoon beforehand. But saw an improvement around 4am when she was eating lettuce, pellets and syringe feed from me, although still unable to move and lopsided. I attempted to syringe feed again at 7:30 but she was more lethargic, shortly after she started fitting 😢 I phoned the vets when they opened at 8am and took her in to be pts.. I couldn't watch her suffer. I wish that wasn't my last memory of her.

I'm trying not to question whether the medication made things worse, or maybe I should have persevered more with the syringe feed. This would likely have been the outcome without it for her and I dont want to torture myself further. At least she's at peace now.

I'm sorry for your loss of Arnold, my thoughts are with you x
 
I'm so sorry you had to go through this.

I experienced something remarkably similar last night/this morning too. Going to an out of hours vet with my 4 year old sow with a suspected stroke, who had lack of appetite and was unable to walk properly.

At 7:30 last night she was injected with gut motility meds and pain medication, which I learned later was 0.3ml buprecare (she was 1kg). I couldn't manage to syringe feed her for the first few hours due to her being so out of it; she was eating it off the spoon beforehand. But saw an improvement around 4am when she was eating lettuce, pellets and syringe feed from me, although still unable to move and lopsided. I attempted to syringe feed again at 7:30 but she was more lethargic, shortly after she started fitting 😢 I phoned the vets when they opened at 8am and took her in to be pts.. I couldn't watch her suffer. I wish that wasn't my last memory of her.

I'm trying not to question whether the medication made things worse, or maybe I should have persevered more with the syringe feed. This would likely have been the outcome without it for her and I dont want to torture myself further. At least she's at peace now.

I'm sorry for your loss of Arnold, my thoughts are with you x

Hi

I am very sorry about your loss.

It sounds like she went into organ failure? That is not at all rare after a major stroke. The drugs may have perked her up very shortly but her body was obviously not able to recover. A major stroke is something that is often fatal for piggies, even if they survive the first one. Unfortunately, strokes can happen out of the blue at any age. :(

However, when you are not aware of the physicality of the natural dying process (gently drifting away in one's sleep is something that happens only comparatively rarely), then it can really upset you. Thankfully, consciousness will be dimmed by the more upsetting latter stages; try to take consolation in that.


These links here may help you:
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
CBS (Calcified Bulla Syndrome) and Neurological Problems - Symptoms and Care (includes strokes)

Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children
Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig
 
I'm so sorry for your loss. It's always hard, particularly when it's sudden and unexpected in a young piggie. I can't speak to the drugs used at all because my own pigs have never received injected medications. However, I have been present for the natural deaths of several pigs, and the lethargy/fitting/struggling to breath/sudden bursts of activity of the feet that look like panic, is something I have experienced every time. It's also unfortunately not uncommon for pigs to decline and pass very quickly, as they are very good at hiding medical problems until they are in the final stages. The last two pigs I lost showed only a couple of hours of lethargy and weakness before passing.

I would really suggest that you speak to your usual vet if you have one, to get an opinion from a medical professional you have a positive relationship with. You could always look into an autopsy if it's in your budget and something you're comfortable with, though it still might not give you as clear-cut an answer as you wish you had. And be kind to yourself as you grieve and take time to process your shock/sadness. ((HUGS)) to you.
 
Just wanted to offer my support and I'm so so sorry for your loss. This sounds like such an awful thing to witness.

I recently lost dear little Desmond after a second bladder stone surgery that he didn't recover from. He was in a similar, lethargic state to what you desribed when I picked him up the morning after the surgery. 25 minutes later when I got him home, I went to put the snuggle safe in the microwave I had just bought (his temperature was slightly down when I left the vets), and when I checked on him a few minutes later, he had passed away. He was shuffling around a bit in the car as I parked on the driveway so literally went as we got home. He'd recovered so well from the first surgery that it was unexpected.

I wish now that I hadn't let them keep him in overnight - he had never been at the vets overnight and was all on his own. I would have stayed up with him for the meds and eye drops he needed. I wonder if he gave up and was too far gone by the time I picked him up the morning. But as others have said - I will never know if it would have made a difference. Or what he passed away from in the end - infection, heart complication, not strong enough. As you will never know about your dear Arnold, and Seven7 - your dear Bear.

Kindness, love, cuddles with remaining piggies and time will be a great healer ❤️

Plus this forum. I've only been a member for just over a week but boy what a delightfully wonderful place it is to share stories. Makes you feel like you aren't going through all these things alone. To the forum founders and moderators - thank you for creating such a wonderful place for the guinea pig community to come together ❤️
 
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