Guinea Pig Seems Depressed After Introduction

Chris24

Chris24

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi all,

We recently fostered an eldery sow named Smudge who was depressed at the animal sanctuary we fostered her from.

So we had Smudge for two weeks and during that time she put on weight and seemed happy when bought out of the cage for cuddle. We fell in love with her and so decided to adopt her.

We currently have a herd of 2 x sows and 1 x neutered boar. As Smudge has suffered from loneliness in the past we thought it would be nice if we integrated her into the herd. The introduction on neutral ground was quite stressful. Poppy, our bottom sow seemed to take an almost instant dislike to Smudge and there was mutual teeth chattering and some chasing and it ended up that Smudge was teeth chattering to any of the herd that came near.

So after about an hour and a half of introducing, Smudge's demeanor suddenly changed. Instead of standing her ground and teeeth chattering she would run away and keep her distance. She also just stood on the spot a lot without moving as though scared.

At this point we thought we would try and put them in the cage (disinfected of course) to see what happened. Basically Smudge has become ultra submissive to the herd - Archie mounted her without any resistance, as did our oldest sow Peaches. Poppy chased Smudge around the cage a few times nipping at her heels until Smudge made submissive squeaking noises.

It's all sort of settled down now but Smudge is just sat in one of the archway-tunnels almost motionless as though she is scared stiff to leave the hidey or is somewhat traumatized/depressed by the whole experience. Is it possible a Guinea Pig can be happier on their own than in a herd? How long typically should it take for her behavior to become more normal from the state she is in now?

It's only the first day so I hold out hope that it is part of settling in process but would appreciate any guidance on this.
 
I do honestly think that sometimes if a Guinea Pig has experienced a bad situation in a group or pair it can make them depressed and scared,

I know a lot of people will say Guinea Pigs are group animals and therefore need to live with other GPS which is true but sometimes because GPS like humans can like and dislike each other it can negatively effect there well being if they obviously having a bad time but they can't go anywhere to get away from it,

If you know your GP and you know what is right behaviour for her and what isn't, then if you think something is wrong then there probably is something wrong,

One of my females got very badly bullied by my other females in a group, she got underweight, very scared all the time and it was obvious something was wrong but because everyone was telling me GPS need to live in pairs at least, and it's cruel to have them seperate, I made the mistake of forcing her to live with other GPS because people shamed me for wanting to seperate her, (not on here thankfully)

In the end I seperated her and she lived alone for a year and a half, and she improved so much, put on weight, no longer scared ect,

And now I'm working with her to find a new friend for her,

So I'd say it's possible she just isn't getting along with your group,
It might be better to remove her if you think it's too much for her,
Maybe pair her with someone in the group or let her choose a new friend from a rescue.

I do think in some situation a GP can be happier not in a group/pair if they are being bullied,
But that doesn't mean she won't be happy with a different Piggie,
And if you try everything and it doesn't work maybe it's best to let her live side by side so she doesn't feel threatened but can still interact with other Piggies.
I'd say that's a last resort though :)

But it might just be teething issues and I might work itself out in time,
There is some really good threads which give details of what is okay behaviour and what is not in bonding, that's sticky threads in the behaviour section!
So possibly check those out too :)
 
Thank you for the detailed an informative response TheLottiediarys. We have introduced piggies to our herd before but this one somehow feels different. Smudge is wandering around the cage now but just sort of seems... subdued. She just allows herself to be mounted without really moving or doing anything at all.

As it's only the first day we will keep a very close eye on her to see if her behavior becomes more positive. It's quite upsetting to think we may have put her through all the stress of an induction only for her to become depressed at the end of it. :(
 
I personally would give it a while longer but, if you are still not convinced that she is happy, I would remove her and keep her seperately but near to the herd.
 
It sounds as if she is finding this experience quite scary but it is still early days and the behaviour you describe is not uncommon. It is fine to give her a break from the situation and remove her from the others and try again tomorrow. I would only say not to do this if you were trying to bond two boars. Also when bonding groups I sometimes find it helpful to bond the new sow with the boar first so she feels secure around him before having to deal with finding her place (or being put in it) among the other sows.
 
Chris24 said:
Hi all,

We recently fostered an eldery sow named Smudge who was depressed at the animal sanctuary we fostered her from.

So we had Smudge for two weeks and during that time she put on weight and seemed happy when bought out of the cage for cuddle. We fell in love with her and so decided to adopt her.

We currently have a herd of 2 x sows and 1 x neutered boar. As Smudge has suffered from loneliness in the past we thought it would be nice if we integrated her into the herd. The introduction on neutral ground was quite stressful. Poppy, our bottom sow seemed to take an almost instant dislike to Smudge and there was mutual teeth chattering and some chasing and it ended up that Smudge was teeth chattering to any of the herd that came near.

So after about an hour and a half of introducing, Smudge's demeanor suddenly changed. Instead of standing her ground and teeeth chattering she would run away and keep her distance. She also just stood on the spot a lot without moving as though scared.

At this point we thought we would try and put them in the cage (disinfected of course) to see what happened. Basically Smudge has become ultra submissive to the herd - Archie mounted her without any resistance, as did our oldest sow Peaches. Poppy chased Smudge around the cage a few times nipping at her heels until Smudge made submissive squeaking noises.

It's all sort of settled down now but Smudge is just sat in one of the archway-tunnels almost motionless as though she is scared stiff to leave the hidey or is somewhat traumatized/depressed by the whole experience. Is it possible a Guinea Pig can be happier on their own than in a herd? How long typically should it take for her behavior to become more normal from the state she is in now?

It's only the first day so I hold out hope that it is part of settling in process but would appreciate any guidance on this.
Click to expand...

Please sit it out! The dominance phase is never nice; I am always glad when it is over. Things should settle down in a few days.

What you are currently witnessing is typical for the dominance phase in group introductions. Acceptance has happened, but your bottom sow is making very sure that the new comer is not pushing her out of her ranking, hence the more aggressive (but still well within the acceptable range) behaviour from her. It is hard to sit by, but that is what you have to do. let the piggies work it out between them. Your new arrival is very submissive and is not contesting the existing hierarchy. Once every piggy is happy with how things are, they will then work as a fully bonded group. There is nothing for you to worry about. Unlike humans, guinea pigs have to spell everything out in bold letters where we human can sort things with just a wink. Just take any hideys with only one exit out and use one bowl per piggy or sprinkle feed.

Please take the time to carefully read this guide here. It covers the whole period of bonding and not just the immediate introductions. it is also as detailed as possible and trying to help you to understand what is going on.
Illustrated Bonding / Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics
 
Sow bondings are less explosive than boar bindings, but they do take longer to sor themselves out. I agree with sitting it out unless it escalates into a full blown fight or full blown bullying situation. It's uncomfortable I know.
 
If things haven't worked out over time you could always try splitting the cage if you have a C&C with a mesh grid in between so they can still communicate with each other but Smudge would have her own space.
 
Honestly it sounds like it's going pretty well to me, it would be a problem if she was fighting back at this stage. A bit of chasing etc is normal dominance rather than bullying, it happened a lot when I bonded my 4.

I was worried about Tonks in the early days as the pigs can sometimes take advantage of her disability.

Right now Tonks is in season and mounting anything with a pulse, even though she's the bottom piggy XD The herd are pretty tolerant of her and her "quirks" now, she's a happy pig. Even though they occasionally sneak up on her blind side to steal her veg (it's tastier than their own veg :)))

I would certainly give it a few weeks for her to settle, it's a lot of new things at once for her to get used to. Providing there is no blood drawn of course!
 
OK Smudge is still very nervous this morning but is gingerly exploring the cage (when she's not being chased/mounted). She lost 20g weight overnight which is my biggest concern at the moment. We will give her extra veggies today and sprinkle feed nuggets to keep her weight up as i'm guessing she is not using the nugget bowl as much as she should due to everything that's gone on over the past 24 hours.
 
If Smudge has started to explore the cage it seems like she is beginning to feel a little more settled. It is lot of change for her and a lot to get used to. If she has't had a cage mate before (or for a long time) and all of a sudden there are 3 to get used to, for her it must feel really strange and like "Whoa! What's going on here?. I don't know these people who are they? and why have I been put here?" It'll take a while for her to get used to her new situation. You are doing what you think is best for your new piggy and giving her new friends which I think is a lovely thing to do. Just be patient and I'm sure it'll all work out.
 
Chris24 said:
OK Smudge is still very nervous this morning but is gingerly exploring the cage (when she's not being chased/mounted). She lost 20g weight overnight which is my biggest concern at the moment. We will give her extra veggies today and sprinkle feed nuggets to keep her weight up as i'm guessing she is not using the nugget bowl as much as she should due to everything that's gone on over the past 24 hours.
Click to expand...

20g is nothing to worry about, it's anything over 40g+ then you could potentially worry. Anything under 30g difference could be a full/empty bladder.

Sounds like it's going great, try not to worry too much :)
 
Thanks for all your replies. :)

Smudge lost another 10g overnight but she is slowly growing in confidence in the cage. She is getting on really well with the dominant boar and has been accepted by the top sow. There is still some friction with Poppy, our bottom sow - Smudge is quite scared of her at the moment and very submissive.

Poppy does seem to be more comfortable with Smudge's presence now. It was interesting because yesterday evening, Poppy had backed Smudge into a corner and gave her a little nip followed by a gentle groom of the ear and then another nip. My interpretation of this is "I like you now and have accepted you into the herd but i'm the boss and don't you forget it!"

Smudge has now been groomed by all three piggies at some point over the past two days so I would say she's definitely been accepted.

Maybe next time I won't go into helicopter dad mode so soon. :D
 
Thats great @Chris24 you will find that once Smudge has been accepted by the top sow the others will accept her too. Poppy just seems to be a bit scared that her ranking will be usurped by Smudge. Those two just have to sort it out between themselves now. Pleased everyone has accepted Smudge and over the next few days she should be a lot more settled with her new friends.
 
This is lovely to hear. Sounds like everything is going really well. The early stages of bonding can sometimes be more tense for the hoomins than the piggies!
 
It definitely sounds like Poppy is trying to let Smudge know she is higher ranked then her!
I think it can be hard for the lowest ranking when a new pig comes in because it's a chance to move up in the ranks or risk being lowest still :/

It's fascinating really :)
 
Pound Shilling & Pig said:
This is lovely to hear. Sounds like everything is going really well. The early stages of bonding can sometimes be more tense for the hoomins than the piggies!
Click to expand...

I know, tell me about it! This was the first induction I have witnessed from start to finish (my wife @Tinkoz) has sat through a few of them and was able to keep me somewhat calm during the tenser moments. I was ready to (literally) throw the towel in more than once. :)

TheLottiediarys said:
It definitely sounds like Poppy is trying to let Smudge know she is higher ranked then her!
I think it can be hard for the lowest ranking when a new pig comes in because it's a chance to move up in the ranks or risk being lowest still :/

It's fascinating really :)
Click to expand...

Yeah they've so fascinating to watch. It was really interesting to see how the group dynamics changed from start to finish. I noticed quite often when Poppy was putting Smudge in her place, Archie our dominant boar would rumble up to them and break it up.
 
Well, as you can see from the below picture, Smudge (nearest camera) is looking somewhat more relaxed now chilling with Peaches (dominant sow). :)

sQmPRcC.jpg

And here's the herd enjoying some kale together.
27oGyYC.jpg
 
Chris24 said:
Well, as you can see from the below picture, Smudge (nearest camera) is looking somewhat more relaxed now chilling with Peaches (dominant sow). :)

sQmPRcC.jpg

And here's the herd enjoying some kale together.
27oGyYC.jpg
Click to expand...
Who's the cream coloured piggy? I may have to come pignapping:)):bal::bal:
 
Err oh that is MY cream coloured piggie, or would be if she wasnt happily with her herd. She is lovely I must say.
 
Just caught up on your thread. Well done for holding your nerve. Sow bondings are slow burn. It looks as though things are settling down nicely, and that's a lovely picture of the ladies all together that's sparked a pignapping alert.
 
Due to the sudden spike of interest in Poppy I have taken two measures:

1) put additional pignapping defenses in place (!)
2) posted an introduction page
Meet Poppy!

I normally do one of these when we first adopt a pig but in Poppy's case she was too nervous for picture taking until recently. :)
 
Chris24 said:
Due to the sudden spike of interest in Poppy I have taken two measures:

1) put additional pignapping defenses in place (!)
2) posted an introduction page
Meet Poppy!

I normally do one of these when we first adopt a pig but in Poppy's case she was too nervous for picture taking until recently. :)
Click to expand...

In answer to no 1 above when our piggy napping expert Tim is on the case no piggy is safe! I'll alert him now OI @Tim how big are your piggie pockets?!

In answer to no 2 above What a simply gorgeous girlie! And a supermodel as well!
 
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