Guinea pig pair fighting

S

Simona mona

New Born Pup
Joined
May 8, 2023
Messages
5
Reaction score
1
Points
35
Location
california
Hi! We adopted two guinea pigs from an animal shelter about 6 months ago. They came as a bonded pair but after two weeks of being in the enclosure that we bought for them, they started fighting and biting each other? We know guinea pigs are social creatures which is why we bought two, and they didn't seem to be fighting at the shelter. We were wondering what the reason could be behind this behavior? They are two males about a year and a half old each.
 
You are correct that they are social and need companionship. Sometimes a change in environment can lead to a break in a bond if it wasn’t that good in the first place. How long has they been together when you adopted them from the shelter? How big was their enclosure and how had you set it up?

The other thing is they were still in their teens. Teens can be a tense time so, as mentioned already, throwing a move into the mix could have upset them.

Are they now living side by side? I’m sorry it didn’t work out but you did the right thing in considering their needs and adopting a pair. Hopefully they’ve now settled down and are content living as neighbours.
 
Siikibam said:
You are correct that they are social and need companionship. Sometimes a change in environment can lead to a break in a bond if it wasn’t that good in the first place. How long has they been together when you adopted them from the shelter? How big was their enclosure and how had you set it up?

The other thing is they were still in their teens. Teens can be a tense time so, as mentioned already, throwing a move into the mix could have upset them.

Are they now living side by side? I’m sorry it didn’t work out but you did the right thing in considering their needs and adopting a pair. Hopefully they’ve now settled down and are content living as neighbours.
Click to expand...
Hi! Thank you so much for the quick reply! When we got them from the shelter, they were about a year old, and all the workers told us that they had come in together, so I'm not sure exactly how long they'd lived together. We bought a cage recommended to us by Petsmart, the dimensions of which are 41.6in x 27.5 in x 19.6 in. We set it up according to their manual. And I see what you mean about them still being in their teens, it probably is really stressful for them to move from a shelter to a completely new environment. They are currently living in the same cage, we've just put a divider down the middle. I'm just worried that they might become a bit depressed as time passes because they're not getting any social time together.
 
I’m trying to not make my response long. It is tough!
My old cage was that size. Now that I have a C&C, I see the difference in behavior. Yes, you have a sufficient cage, but I’m sorry you paid so much! A C&C (not from an Amazon kit!) cost me under sixty all together. It’s just the metal cube storage kit from Walmart, and a piece of coroplast from Lowes. Some people (my nephew included) use a pool liner or tarp underneath cloth bedding instead of coroplast.
Anyway… a bigger cage might help, as will a lot of lap time/ time out of the cage, zooming around. The cage you’re using isn’t really zoomable.
 
I'm sorry to hear they have had a fight. I’m afraid a full fight is bond breaking.
Changing environment can cause problems in their bond (which had so far been managed) to come to the surface which can mean a bond doesn’t survive. They are adult now, but were teenagers when you got them.
When Siikibam asked how you set the cage up, I think it was meant in terms of enrichment - ie two boys need at least two hides in the cage and each hide needs to have two doors (nothing with one only door as they can cause a piggy to become trapped by the other which can cause fights). They also need two hay piles, two bottles. We recommend scatter feeding veg and there one tablespoon of pellets each as it encourages foraging and stops food hogging.

I'm sorry you were recommended a cage of those measurements (it comes in at 105x68cm, 7.5 sq ft) - unfortunately it doesn’t come anywhere near the size you actually need for two boys. Lack of space will lead to tensions and cause fights particularly where there are underlying issues. Boars are more territorial and need a lot more space.
For two boys, the cage needed to measure 70x24 inches (180x60cm) (12 square feet) or for them to be in a 5x2 c&c.

Now they have had a fight and bitten each other, a bigger cage will not help. Once a bond is broken like that, we do not recommend trying to rebond them, it will most likely just lead to more fights.

As they have had a fight they do need to be separated and live side by side. Two piggies who cannot share a cage are absolutely fine living like this as it does still provide 24/7 social interaction and companionship through the bars. They will not get lonely living this way.
Two of my boys fell out and now live in side by side cages. They are much happier to have their own territory and just be friends through the bars.

However, the cage is not big enough to divide in half and it does mean your piggies are in a space which does not meet welfare standard. Each piggy needs a minimum welfare space of 48x24 inches (120x60cm) (8 square feet) (or a 3x2 but ideally a 4x2 c&c each) to meet minimum welfare requirements, so you will need to buy another cage for one of the piggies.

Cage Size Guide

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
 
I’m sorry that petsmart recommended such a small cage to you. That may have contributed to the fallout, but, as mentioned above, it may have been something brewing under the surface that was previously contained/controlled.

Hopefully you can get bigger cages soon and they can each have a good space to do zoomies. They will be fine living as neighbours. Opportunities for interaction are still there and this is more than sight, which isn’t great anyway.
 
Thanks so much for the replies everyone! That was definitely really helpful, we'll look into finding a larger cage especially now that they're separated. One last thing - so is there really no chance of them re-establishing that bond? I really feel terrible that the cage size made them lose their bond :((
 
Simona mona said:
Thanks so much for the replies everyone! That was definitely really helpful, we'll look into finding a larger cage especially now that they're separated. One last thing - so is there really no chance of them re-establishing that bond? I really feel terrible that the cage size made them lose their bond :((
Click to expand...

After there has been a fight and bites then it is unlikely for two piggies to go back together again.
They have to reestablish their hierarchy in a new environment so while they were ok at the shelter, bringing them home would have meant they go through the restablishing. That can bring any underlying issues between them to the surface and then be too much for them to overcome.
That reestablishing takes up to two weeks which is why the fact the fight happened at the end of the first two weeks may be significant as an incompatibility
Sometimes boars just get to the end of the teens and suddenly decide they don’t want to be together - it doesn’t happen as often as fights during the early part of the teens but we do see it occasionally happen. Lack of space can exacerbate both those issues but not necessarily be the main cause.
So whether it is down purely to the cage size is unclear. If it is due to underlying tensions or an incompatibility then those issues don’t go away so a larger cage in that case will not make a rebonding successful.
If it was a momentary tension that would otherwise have resolved by one moving away, but the lack of space meant they couldn’t get far enough away so it resulted in a fight, then maybe they will go back together.

If you wish to try then you of course can but you must make sure you go through the full and correct neutral territory bonding process. You would need to keep a very close eye on them, not only during the few hours in the bonding pen but for the whole of the two weeks after (if they do go back together) as it is during those two weeks that they fully form a hierarchy and it can fail right up to the end of those two weeks.

If you were going to try it, then you need to make sure any cage you intend on them living in together covers 180x60cm. (Do also remember that thar cage size isn’t big enough to split in half if it fails again - you need 240x60cm to be able to split in half so each piggy ends up with 120x60)

The guide below explains the neutral territory process
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
 
:agr:

Good luck with the rebonding! Big chain pet stores in the UK are terrible at recommending tiny cages, I can imagine they are in the US too 🙄
 
When you say they were biting, how badly? Like full-on fighting and drawing blood, or just nipping?
 
Piggies&buns said:
After there has been a fight and bites then it is unlikely for two piggies to go back together again.
They have to reestablish their hierarchy in a new environment so while they were ok at the shelter, bringing them home would have meant they go through the restablishing. That can bring any underlying issues between them to the surface and then be too much for them to overcome.
That reestablishing takes up to two weeks which is why the fact the fight happened at the end of the first two weeks may be significant as an incompatibility
Sometimes boars just get to the end of the teens and suddenly decide they don’t want to be together - it doesn’t happen as often as fights during the early part of the teens but we do see it occasionally happen. Lack of space can exacerbate both those issues but not necessarily be the main cause.
So whether it is down purely to the cage size is unclear. If it is due to underlying tensions or an incompatibility then those issues don’t go away so a larger cage in that case will not make a rebonding successful.
If it was a momentary tension that would otherwise have resolved by one moving away, but the lack of space meant they couldn’t get far enough away so it resulted in a fight, then maybe they will go back together.

If you wish to try then you of course can but you must make sure you go through the full and correct neutral territory bonding process. You would need to keep a very close eye on them, not only during the few hours in the bonding pen but for the whole of the two weeks after (if they do go back together) as it is during those two weeks that they fully form a hierarchy and it can fail right up to the end of those two weeks.

If you were going to try it, then you need to make sure any cage you intend on them living in together covers 180x60cm. (Do also remember that thar cage size isn’t big enough to split in half if it fails again - you need 240x60cm to be able to split in half so each piggy ends up with 120x60)

The guide below explains the neutral territory process
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Click to expand...
Thank you! I was really hoping we could initiate the rebonding but I don't think it's possible :( We tried to take them out in an open area but the moment they get close to each other they start snarling and trembling very violently. It's weird because they'll still sit right next to each other on opposite sides of the barrier we put inside the cage and they seem to be communicating with each other when outside of the cage :/ I'll look into the guide you sent, thank you so much for the information!
 
If blood was drawn then please don’t try to put them back together. That is a full fight and bond breaking.

Sitting next to each other on opposite sides of the barrier gets misconstrued by owners. People think this is as a positive thing and that they want to be together. In fact this kind of sitting next to the barrier is actually them marking their own territories, and not a positive sign.
 
Two guinea pigs living separately, each with its own territory, interacting across a barrier, will behave totally differently than if those same pigs are sharing a territory. Across the barrier, there is no heirarchy, no need for dominance or submission, no roles or jobs that each pig has responsibility for, no boundaries to negotiate. They are not a family unit. They're just two individuals, interacting casually. They don't need to worry whether they trust the other one, because the barrier will stop any attempts to start a fight. They can just chill out and chat.

The same two pigs in the same territory are like a couple in Married At First Sight. They've got to very very quickly figure out who is dominant and who is submissive, who takes the decisions, who goes first into risky situations, who stands watch; and they have to work out if they can trust each other to fulfil their roles without being flaky or antagonistic or violent. It's a really complex set of negotiations.

If a pair of pigs has already had a violent falling-out, they will both be extremely anxious when reintroduced, in case that happens again and it turns into a dangerous fight. They don't think they can even trust each other to not be violent, never mind whether they can rely on each other in the way they need to feel safe.

In my own case, we had a very unusual situation where we did manage a reintroduction. It required assertiveness and persistence on the part of the now-dominant pig, humility and courage on the part of the now-submissive pig (as he was the one most badly hurt in their previous fight, and he had to submit and trust his brother not to respond by attacking or bullying him), and then tactfulness and grace on the part of the dominant pig, who had to demonstrate that he was going to be a fair and decent leader and not a bully. Most of all, it took determination on both sides to negotiate a workable bond.

Watching something like that gave me an appreciation for just how complex guinea pig social interaction is, and why it is just so rare for a reintroduction like this to work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top