Guinea pig in visible pain, weight dropping, vet doesn't know whats up

[DoktorBebe]

Hello everyone,

I need some advice on some x-rays the vet took of my 3yo guinea pig, Chopin. I noticed on monday he looked hunched over and I thought he looked like he was straining to poop. Now, I'm in Canada so everything single vet was closed on monday so I brought him as an emergency on tuesday to get him seen by a vet before his condition could worsen. He was always on the smaller side, usually in between 850 to 900g, but at this point he was now 737g so I was pretty worried.

Now the vet examined him physically and couldn't find anything wrong so she did some x-rays. According to her, the x-rays look rather normal and nothing seemed to worry her but she gave me some Metacam to give him once per day for the next ten days. On the next day I called again because I just couldn't believe there was nothing wrong with him, even though he was - and still is - eating, drinking and pooping, he's hunched over, he's squinting and he's walking weirdly (like kind of hopping, high on his legs). She still had no idea what could be wrong, but she proposed to add buprenorphine to his meds. Thing is, she told me this could cause some drowsiness so I was worried of it causing him to eat less and get gut stasis. I asked to see the x-rays, but she couldn't send them to me, she told me I'd have to go there to view them in person, so that's what I did (which I will include in the comments below).

I'd like to get your opinions on the x-rays. What's wrong with my sweet baby? I'm really scared of loosing him, we just lost his brother a few weeks ago I can't loose him too

As of writing this, there hasn't been much change to his condition except that I'm now force feeding him emeraid sustain and IC cause his weight is still too low. If it can help, the meds (and their strength) and things I have on hand are Enrofloxacin, metoclopramide (0,5 mg/ml), metacam (1.5mg/ml), buprenorphine (0.08mg/ml and which I'd rather not give him unless necessary tbh), Benebac plus in gel, Emeraid Sustain Herbivore, Emeraid IC herbivores.

 

[DoktorBebe]

Here are the x-rays

 

[MnJ]

I am sorry about your piggy. I was in a similar situation in April. Went to 4 vets. Even emergency one. No one was sure about the diagnosis. Everyone was saying something different.I treated every day as the last.

I really hate it when vets are useless or worse give harmful advice.

There are good people here who will give you good advice.

My boy is all good now,but boy was it a tough month.
I am not very experienced with this stuff, but what I see being adviced by members from the forum and what I did is daily weight checks at the same time of the day to make sure I feed enough critical care. But you probably are doing this already.

From my little research I understand that buprenorphine is opioid - pain killer, a strong one. I don't understand why the vet would just give such a strong pain killer without anything else to treat a potential illness. Obviously something is causing him distress, but I don't think that just a pain killer can fix it. I would go to another vet, she said that she doesn't know what is wrong with him and only gives him painkillers without anything to treat a potential illness.

Could he be grieving his cage mate or is lonely? Does he have other symptoms? Did you change recently something in his diet/environment?I recently found out that my boy is very picky when it comes to hay. He lost 50g in 2-3 days because I ran out of the hay he eats usually.

If he doesn't like the taste of the critical care try a different one or mix pellets with water. You can also puree some banana, apple , carrot or something you know he likes and dip the syringe in it. Mine hated oxbow anise flavour, but loves the Emeraid. At one point he was wheeking for it. You can also prepare a couple of syringes with critical care ahead of time when feeding him to make it easier for you and hopefully feed him some extra mls.
I also put hay right in front of my boy when he was sick to encourage him to eat. Maybe mix some herbal/forage blends to make it more appealing.

I know that it is a difficult time for you, but hopefully things will get better soon. Sending you and your boy hugs

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

Please accept that we are an owner's forum that offers care support but none of us has the medical training to replace a vet or veterinary nurse. I am not trained to read x-rays but they look normal to me, too. It doesn't mean that nothing is amiss, just that what is the cause is not physically obvious on an x-ray or a hand-on examination.

Unfortunately, veterinary care for guinea pigs has massively improved in recent years but finally making it out of the stone age when it comes to guinea pigs doesn't mean that we have arrived in the present. Research into so many areas woefully running behind. Hunching over points to a problem most commonly situated in adrenal gland/kidney/liver/lower spine area in my own experience but it is not necessarily something that is showing up on an x-ray if it is not a kidney stone/mis-shapen kidney, enlarged adrenal gland or arthritis - but research into those areas is not exactly thick on the ground. The straining is likely caused by radiating pain, as is the squinting. There is nothing wrong with the digestive system or the lower urinary tract.

Your vet has simply done the best they could do due to lack of any helpful pointers and is treating for the evidence of strong pain until such time as the cause is becoming evident (if ever).

Mystery illnesses are unfortunately still far too frequent when it comes to guinea pigs and diagnosing is still much more in the of crime investigation several decades past for vets due to the painful lack of information. It's not veterinary ineptitude; it's down to guinea pigs having been perceived for far too long as short-lived children's pets not worth any serious research. Our horizons are expanding but so are all the weird and wonderful problems that become visible or that are still lurking beyond when it comes to guinea pigs.

I am extremely sorry. But my magical wand doesn't work for this scenario.

Other members can hopefull help you with their own experiences with buprenorphine. I don't have any persona with piggies of my own.

 

[MnJ]

Hi how is your boy doing?

 

[DoktorBebe]

Hi how is your boy doing?

He's stable for now, he's still very much excited by his veggies, eats his hay (although I feel like he's eating slowly), drinks water and moves around a bit, but the signs of pain are still showing and he's not gaining weight as much as I'd like him to. But at least, he's eating, so I'm trying to see that as a positive point. Also, to answer some of your previous questions, no there was no change to his diet or environment, except we got him a new furry friend with whom things went swimmingly until he began showing signs of pain.

Someone in a Fb group suggested it looked like he had rather severe arthritis in his hips/legs however, and I'm thinking this could actually be this? I'm gonna talk to the vet to see what she thinks as well.

And thank you for your kind words, it means a lot to us

 

[DoktorBebe]

Hi and welcome

Please accept that we are an owner's forum that offers care support but none of us has the medical training to replace a vet or veterinary nurse. I am not trained to read x-rays but they look normal to me, too. It doesn't mean that nothing is amiss, just that what is the cause is not physically obvious on an x-ray or a hand-on examination.

Unfortunately, veterinary care for guinea pigs has massively improved in recent years but finally making it out of the stone age when it comes to guinea pigs doesn't mean that we have arrived in the present. Research into so many areas woefully running behind. Hunching over points to a problem most commonly situated in adrenal gland/kidney/liver/lower spine area in my own experience but it is not necessarily something that is showing up on an x-ray if it is not a kidney stone/mis-shapen kidney, enlarged adrenal gland or arthritis - but research into those areas is not exactly thick on the ground. The straining is likely caused by radiating pain, as is the squinting. There is nothing wrong with the digestive system or the lower urinary tract.

Your vet has simply done the best they could do due to lack of any helpful pointers and is treating for the evidence of strong pain until such time as the cause is becoming evident (if ever).

Mystery illnesses are unfortunately still far too frequent when it comes to guinea pigs and diagnosing is still much more in the of crime investigation several decades past for vets due to the painful lack of information. It's not veterinary ineptitude; it's down to guinea pigs having been perceived for far too long as short-lived children's pets not worth any serious research. Our horizons are expanding but so are all the weird and wonderful problems that become visible or that are still lurking beyond when it comes to guinea pigs.

I am extremely sorry. But my magical wand doesn't work for this scenario.

Other members can hopefull help you with their own experiences with buprenorphine. I don't have any persona with piggies of my own.

Thank you, I'm just glad I can get some other people's opinions. It's hard, honestly I feel like it was cruel of me to get piggies with so few options (less than 7h away) when emergencies happen We're gonna do all we can to help him push through, I just hope it's not too late.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you, I'm just glad I can get some other people's opinions. It's hard, honestly I feel like it was cruel of me to get piggies with so few options (less than 7h away) when emergencies happen We're gonna do all we can to help him push through, I just hope it's not too late.

HUGS

Please follow the advice in our various support feeding guides:
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency

Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

Your home care is as important as any medical care. I truly feel for you. You are a very caring owner and you are doing all the right things. But even with close by vet access, you are not guaranteed that your vets will necessary find the cause quickly. The stress is sadly a lot higher when you cannot get to a vet quickly.

 

[MnJ]

He's stable for now, he's still very much excited by his veggies, eats his hay (although I feel like he's eating slowly), drinks water and moves around a bit, but the signs of pain are still showing and he's not gaining weight as much as I'd like him to. But at least, he's eating, so I'm trying to see that as a positive point. Also, to answer some of your previous questions, no there was no change to his diet or environment, except we got him a new furry friend with whom things went swimmingly until he began showing signs of pain.

Someone in a Fb group suggested it looked like he had rather severe arthritis in his hips/legs however, and I'm thinking this could actually be this? I'm gonna talk to the vet to see what she thinks as well.

And thank you for your kind words, it means a lot to us

He's stable for now, he's still very much excited by his veggies, eats his hay (although I feel like he's eating slowly), drinks water and moves around a bit, but the signs of pain are still showing and he's not gaining weight as much as I'd like him to. But at least, he's eating, so I'm trying to see that as a positive point. Also, to answer some of your previous questions, no there was no change to his diet or environment, except we got him a new furry friend with whom things went swimmingly until he began showing signs of pain.

Someone in a Fb group suggested it looked like he had rather severe arthritis in his hips/legs however, and I'm thinking this could actually be this? I'm gonna talk to the vet to see what she thinks as well.

And thank you for your kind words, it means a lot to us

Now that you mentioned it. I have heard that piggies with arthritis can look like they are kind of hopping instead of walking normally, which he does, if I remember correctly. It is definitely worth checking out/doing your own research on the matter and talking to your vet about it. Maybe show her some videos.

I don't think it is cruel that the nearest vet is about 7h away from you. I can see that you care for your piggy very much, otherwise you wouldn't be here looking for advice. He is in good hands and well taken care of. Sadly, not all pet piggies are.

Don't worry about it too much as he is still eating. That is generally a good sign right? I feel you I was a nervous mess at that time as well.The links that Wiebke provided are very helpful. I honestly followed all the advice I got here about care. Wasn't disappointed.
Keep us updated

 

[Piggies&buns]

Please do step in with syringe feeding. Weight loss means he is not eating enough hay as he should be (even if he is still eating some - so yes while it’s a good sign they are still eating, it doesn’t mean it’s enough), and it is essential you are replacing lost hay intake with recovery feeds.

I hope he is ok