Guinea pig fighting

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Em03

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Hi,

I have 2 bonded female guinea pigs, Jenny and Blair, who are now 8 months. They have always been fine together and no issues but the past week we have noticed bites in Jenny’s ear which have gotten progressively worse to her now bleeding quite badly from the area. For now we have separated them both but we’re unsure of what could have caused this and why the sudden turn in behaviour. We have never seen or heard them fighting before. We have also just adopted 3 more girls, Fudge, Rita and Mango, they are 4 months old. During bonding Jenny has been fine around them but Blair has been chattering her teeth and trying to bite so again we separated her. Could we bond Blair with another so she isn’t alone or after some time will the aggressiveness settle down? We don’t know what to do as we don’t want her to be alone but it also isn’t safe for her to be around them right now? Has anyone experienced this before or have any advice? Thank you
 
Welcome to the forum

Lots of questions coming!

Obviously if she is injuring Jenny then separation is the right thing and it’s probably now a case that sadly they can’t ever go back together again.

- Did the issues between Jenny and Blair only start once the new piggies were added?
(A bit more of an idea of timeline could help us with further advice). Adding new piggies to a pair can sometimes disrupt/ruin a bond between existing piggies. In some of those occasions, the original two then go back together as a pair happily once the new ones are removed (although as she is now causing actual injuries this seems less likely). Other times it’s too late and the original pair’s bond has to be ended.

- Was the bonding done properly on neutral territory?
- How big is your cage? Five sows would need a 2x8 c&c or a cage of 240x60cm
- Do all hides have two exits?
- Is there five (or more) of everything in the cage?
- How long have all five been together (before you separated Blair)?

Biting in sows is usually defensive.
Nipping is something different - nipping is a gesture of power from a dominant to an underpig. It lets the underpig feel the teeth but doesn’t break the skin and isn’t considered aggression.
Finding wounds is of course very different!

Actual aggression in a failed bond will not settle down in time. In fact it would get worse, so if you have concluded the bonding has failed then she would need to remain away from the others permanently.

If the bonding between all five has definitely failed and Blair can’t be with the main herd, then you can of course attempt to separate one of the others out to bond with Blair - she must be compatible with whoever she goes with though for it to work. It may be that you try her with one of them and if it doesn’t work out, then try her with another and so on until you find a match

Wiebke

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its own...
  • Like
Wiebke

Thread 'Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated Bonding Dynamics and Behaviours'

1 Introduction
2 Pre-bonding
- Quarantine and sexing
- The need for a plan B
- The rule-breaker: Youngsters under 4 months (sub-teenage)
3 Setting up an introduction
- Getting to know each other
- ‘Buddy baths’ – why not
- Scent swapping - why not
- Setting up a neutral bonding area
- How to start the bonding
4 Acceptance phase: Do we like...
  • Like
 
Piggies&buns said:
Welcome to the forum

Lots of questions coming!

Obviously if she is injuring Jenny then separation is the right thing and it’s probably now a case that sadly they can’t ever go back together again.

- Did the issues between Jenny and Blair only start once the new piggies were added?
(A bit more of an idea of timeline could help us with further advice). Adding new piggies to a pair can sometimes disrupt/ruin a bond between existing piggies. In some of those occasions, the original two then go back together as a pair happily once the new ones are removed (although as she is now causing actual injuries this seems less likely). Other times it’s too late and the original pair’s bond has to be ended.

- Was the bonding done properly on neutral territory?
- How big is your cage? Five sows would need a 2x8 c&c or a cage of 240x60cm
- Do all hides have two exits?
- Is there five (or more) of everything in the cage?
- How long have all five been together (before you separated Blair)?

Biting in sows is usually defensive.
Nipping is something different - nipping is a gesture of power from a dominant to an underpig. It lets the underpig feel the teeth but doesn’t break the skin and isn’t considered aggression.
Finding wounds is of course very different!

Actual aggression in a failed bond will not settle down in time. In fact it would get worse, so if you have concluded the bonding has failed then she would need to remain away from the others permanently.

If the bonding between all five has definitely failed and Blair can’t be with the main herd, then you can of course attempt to separate one of the others out to bond with Blair - she must be compatible with whoever she goes with though for it to work. It may be that you try her with one of them and if it doesn’t work out, then try her with another and so on until you find a match

Wiebke

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its own...
  • Like
Wiebke

Thread 'Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated Bonding Dynamics and Behaviours'

1 Introduction
2 Pre-bonding
- Quarantine and sexing
- The need for a plan B
- The rule-breaker: Youngsters under 4 months (sub-teenage)
3 Setting up an introduction
- Getting to know each other
- ‘Buddy baths’ – why not
- Scent swapping - why not
- Setting up a neutral bonding area
- How to start the bonding
4 Acceptance phase: Do we like...
  • Like
Click to expand...
Hey,

No the bitting and injury occurred before we got the other 3. We then got the 3 more guinea pigs after Blair wouldn’t stop injuring jenny with hope that we could maybe bond her with another. Jenny and Blair were bought together as sisters at 12 weeks old. They are now 8 months and up u til this point there has never been an issue so we’re unsure what could have changed. The bonding of the 5 has not been in neutral territory as when we adopted the 3 more we were told to mix them straight away but after some more research they have now been separated and we will start bonding on neutral territory. The cage for the 5 is 280 x 140 but Jenny and Blair were in was cc grids 4 x 2. When the bitting occurred it was in a hide that only had 1 exit and seemed to only happen in there but they did have other hides with 2 exits. It seems Blair would back jenny into the corner and bite her as we seen it happen once. Yes they have their own bowls and bottles now there are 5 but there was 2 bowls and 1 bottle in just Blair and jennys cage. Blair has now been separated as Jenny kept getting injuries but she tried to escape her section of the cage and bites the bars and I feel awful but it isn’t safe for her to be around the others at the moment. They are now in the 280 x 140 cage but separated by grids. Jenny has also had a few moments where she has chased or gotten annoyed at the new three so I have now separated them all for now.
 
So there sounds to be a few issues and potential trigger points.

Blair and Jenny’s bond may not have been as strong as thought and the teens and hormones brought about an underlying tension. It is probably best they are now kept apart. Actual bullying and attacks means they can sadly never be together again.

One exit hides should never be used as one piggy can corner the other and that is where injuries can occur.

Sadly it sounds as if you didn’t get good bonding advice. You didn’t need to mix them all immediately given nobody was actually alone.
Keeping new piggies side by side with the others you intend to bond them is recommended, and they can remain like that for as many weeks as necessary for everyone to settle in. Bonding when piggies are on high alert/ stressed due to a move to a new home can cause an overreaction.
You then must bond in neutral territory. You can never just put new piggies directly into the territory of others as it will be seen as a territory invasion and will cause hostility from the beginning, and it may be part of the reason why Blair was going for the new girls.

We don’t recommend the use of food bowls at all. All veg and pellets are ideally scattered into loose piles of hay to encourage foraging, provide mental stimulation and prevent any food hogging.
There always needs to be as many resources as there are piggies in the cage.

Jenny chasing the other three is likely just normal dominance for a new bond. You shouldn’t separate for dominance behaviours as it is what they need to do to form and maintain a bond.

I think what I would do now is leave everyone as they are separated for a week or so to let everyone calm down. You ignore bar biting - an instigator of any conflict is going to be upset by a separation but it is never their reaction you go by. Ensure the bars are cable tied so she can’t break them apart.

But be prepared that if a bond has failed due to incompatibility, attempting to rebond them, even on neutral territory, is not likely to work out.

The long term possibilities:

After time to settle down - You can see if you can get Blair to bond with one of the new girls, meaning long term you have a pair and a trio.
Or
Blair is not compatible with anyone; jenny then lives with the three new girls and Blair lives permanently in a separate but side by side cage. This will be sufficient interaction through the bars to prevent her from being lonely.
(If for any reason Jenny doesn’t bond (although chasing is not a cause for concern) with the new girls you will of course need three cages long term.)

I hope this helps
 
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