Guinea pig dying vet cant find a cause.

[TeganWillow]

Hi there,

Last night suddenly my GP Saoirse didn't come forward for her dinner. I went to the vet (non exotic) twice today. She had an opioid pain relief, metoclopramide and subcut fluids. The only sign I could see was watery eyes and breathing heavy. But nothing too obvious. Yesterday AM she was eating critical care and small buts of salad. They took an xray which they thought looked normal. No weezing. I took her back to the same vet in the PM. Still didn't want to give antibiotics because
there was no weezing. She kept going down hill so later that night I took here to an after hours vet. They agreed she looked lethargic but couldn't hear any noise/crackling on her lungs but gave a shot a Baytril anyway.

Now she is listless, refusing water and food. Do I go ahead and get her put down? Do I go and insist on more antibiotics? I just can believe this she is not even 2. I feel so helpless. To me it looks like she is dying.

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry you piggy is unwell. I don’t have any experience of these symptoms but wanted to offer you support. I think personally I would continue to syringe feed food and water. Then maybe give a weeks course of antibiotics to see if there is an improvement. Sending healing vibes to your piggy.

 

[Freela]

If a pig isn't eating and drinking on their own, it's vital to step in with supplemental feedings by syringe. There is a link at the top of the page with information about syringe feeding and supplementing. Have a read of that to see what, how often, and how to syringe feed an ill guinea pig to keep them going. Many guinea pigs will go off food if they feel unwell, but they are designed to be constant grazers and their guts can shut down or bloat up if they are not getting a regular supply of food. This can result in death even if the underlying reason they feel unwell is treatable. So definitely go over that guide and get some food into your piggie if she isn't feeling well enough to eat on their own.

Lethargy and refusing food are pretty much symptoms for a lot of illnesses. Your vet is going to want to consider things like respiratory infection (do the lungs sound clear?), urinary tract infection/stones (squeaking while peeing/blood or sediment in urine), dental issues (do the back teeth look normal?) Breathing heavy and not wanting to eat can be signs of pain from any part of the body, so the vet needs to go over her thoroughly and see if she's uncomfortable anywhere. A pain med may perk up a guinea pig who is uncomfortable for some reason and doesn't want to eat because of it. It's worth a shot to try, at least.

So sorry you're dealing with this... all I can recommend is finding a vet who has experience with guinea pigs/small exotics to do a second opinion, supplementary syringe feedings to keep her gut working and her strength up, and pain meds/antibiotics as a broad treatment to address a potential number of causes while you figure it out. All the best to you and your piggie!

 

[TeganWillow]

Hi,

Thanks for you advice. I have been syringe feeding but just in the last hours she is refusing to swallow.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi there,

Last night suddenly my GP Saoirse didn't come forward for her dinner. I went to the vet (non exotic) twice today. She had an opioid pain relief, metoclopramide and subcut fluids. The only sign I could see was watery eyes and breathing heavy. But nothing too obvious. Yesterday AM she was eating critical care and small buts of salad. They took an xray which they thought looked normal. No weezing. I took her back to the same vet in the PM. Still didn't want to give antibiotics because
there was no weezing. She kept going down hill so later that night I took here to an after hours vet. They agreed she looked lethargic but couldn't hear any noise/crackling on her lungs but gave a shot a Baytril anyway.

Now she is listless, refusing water and food. Do I go ahead and get her put down? Do I go and insist on more antibiotics? I just can believe this she is not even 2. I feel so helpless. To me it looks like she is dying.

Hi and welcome

HUGS

I am very sorry that it is in such sad and distressing circumstances.

Please accept that we cannot make any ownership decisions for you. But what we can do is giving you the detailed information to work out for yourself where you stand and which way forward you want to choose.

This link here doesn't make cheerful reading but you should hopefully find it very helpful for difficult situation you are finding yourself in: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

Unfortunately, age is irrelevant if a genetic malfunction is in play. It is however always very upsetting. I've lost a couple of very young piggies to sudden acute heart failure (a genetic time bomb in both cases); both went downhill very quickly, so I fully understand how you are feeling.

 

[TeganWillow]

She's died. I have no idea what happened. I have had 13 GPs and 4 rabbits and have never gone through anything so quick.

I feel like giving all my animals away I just feel so incompetent and helpless and it's all too hard. Her Mum was her cage mate as well as a male Jesse. I don't want anymore but then you don't know how the Mum will cope. You just end up on a roller-coaster of getting more guinea pigs.

Sorry for rambling. I'm just heart broken and in shock. I know everyone says this but Saoirse was the sweetest girl that ever lived. She was a Peruvian orange hair with a white streak across her middle. Sometimes her wheeks for dinner were so dramatic I'd run into the room to check she wasn't being murdered!

I know they say grief is the price we pay for love but I sometimes wonder.

Thanks everyone.
The pic is Saoirse and her mumma Orla.

 

[Wiebke]

She's died. I have no idea what happened. I have had 13 GPs and 4 rabbits and have never gone through anything so quick.

I feel like giving all my animals away I just feel so incompetent and helpless and it's all too hard. Her Mum was her cage mate as well as a male Jesse. I don't want anymore but then you don't know how the Mum will cope. You just end up on a roller-coaster of getting more guinea pigs.

Sorry for rambling. I'm just heart broken and in shock. I know everyone says this but Saoirse was the sweetest girl that ever lived. She was a Peruvian orange hair with a white streak across her middle. Sometimes her wheeks for dinner were so dramatic I'd run into the room to check she wasn't being murdered!

I know they say grief is the price we pay for love but I sometimes wonder.

Thanks everyone.
The pic is Saoirse and her mumma Orla.

BIG HUGS

It has sounded to me that your girl had already gone into multiple organ failure. It is the natural way of dying.

Sometimes it happens out of the blue and can be very quick when one of the major organs is packing in for some reason. I have lost several of mine that way; some very young ones to sudden acute heart-failure (which also comes with diaphragmic breathing but no breathing noises) and older ones whose day has simply come. The link in my last post may perhaps help you to make a bit more sense of what has just happened?

Please try not to beat yourself up; you haven't missed anything or done anything nor would any vet have been able to save her even if they had figured it out (it is not all that easy). Once the process has started, there can sadly only be one outcome.
Try to take comfort in that death has come quickly and comparatively gently to her and that she hasn't suffered badly or for long. When the chips are down, we'd rather bear the extra burden of the huge shock that comes with a sudden loss of a much loved one than having them suffer any more than absolutely necessary.
Please be gentle with yourself and give yourself time to grieve; you cannot hurry that on. It is always harder when you cannot brace yourself for it because you have the sheer shock and the pain of the loss hitting together and you feel like somewhat disorientated. It is so tough when you feel so very helpless and powerless watching a beloved one slipping away from you. Strong feelings of failure and doubting yourself are typical for the onset of the grieving process; it is always worse after a sudden death. You wouldn't experience them if you weren't actually a
very caring and loving owner in the first place. Just hang on in there for now.
You may also find these links helpful.

This guide here contains some very practical but sensitive advice for bereaved piggy companions in the immediate aftermath right after a loss as well as in the medium to longer term: Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

And this guide here is for you to help you make more sense of what you are experiencing right now and in the
coming days. It is no necessarily what you expect can really mug you from behind: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

You are welcome to post a tribute to your gorgeous girl in our Rainbow Bridge section if or whenever you think it would help you. There is no obligation; it is just there for those who want to make use of it at whatever stage and time.

 

[squishtheguineapig]

Hi there,

Last night suddenly my GP Saoirse didn't come forward for her dinner. I went to the vet (non exotic) twice today. She had an opioid pain relief, metoclopramide and subcut fluids. The only sign I could see was watery eyes and breathing heavy. But nothing too obvious. Yesterday AM she was eating critical care and small buts of salad. They took an xray which they thought looked normal. No weezing. I took her back to the same vet in the PM. Still didn't want to give antibiotics because
there was no weezing. She kept going down hill so later that night I took here to an after hours vet. They agreed she looked lethargic but couldn't hear any noise/crackling on her lungs but gave a shot a Baytril anyway.

Now she is listless, refusing water and food. Do I go ahead and get her put down? Do I go and insist on more antibiotics? I just can believe this she is not even 2. I feel so helpless. To me it looks like she is dying.

I would try critical care oxbow.

 

[TeganWillow]

BIG HUGS

It has sounded to me that your girl had already gone into multiple organ failure. It is the natural way of dying.

Sometimes it happens out of the blue and can be very quick when one of the major organs is packing in for some reason. I have lost several of mine that way; some very young ones to sudden acute heart-failure (which also comes with diaphragmic breathing but no breathing noises) and older ones whose day has simply come. The link in my last post may perhaps help you to make a bit more sense of what has just happened?

Please try not to beat yourself up; you haven't missed anything or done anything nor would any vet have been able to save her even if they had figured it out (it is not all that easy). Once the process has started, there can sadly only be one outcome.
Try to take comfort in that death has come quickly and comparatively gently to her and that she hasn't suffered badly or for long. When the chips are down, we'd rather bear the extra burden of the huge shock that comes with a sudden loss of a much loved one than having them suffer any more than absolutely necessary.
Please be gentle with yourself and give yourself time to grieve; you cannot hurry that on. It is always harder when you cannot brace yourself for it because you have the sheer shock and the pain of the loss hitting together and you feel like somewhat disorientated. It is so tough when you feel so very helpless and powerless watching a beloved one slipping away from you. Strong feelings of failure and doubting yourself are typical for the onset of the grieving process; it is always worse after a sudden death. You wouldn't experience them if you weren't actually a
very caring and loving owner in the first place. Just hang on in there for now.
You may also find these links helpful.

This guide here contains some very practical but sensitive advice for bereaved piggy companions in the immediate aftermath right after a loss as well as in the medium to longer term: Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

And this guide here is for you to help you make more sense of what you are experiencing right now and in the
coming days. It is no necessarily what you expect can really mug you from behind: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

You are welcome to post a tribute to your gorgeous girl in our Rainbow Bridge section if or whenever you think it would help you. There is no obligation; it is just there for those who want to make use of it at whatever stage and time.

Thank you for your words of comfort and shared experience.
When you said diaphragmatic breathing but no noise that hit home. Maybe it was heart failure. There was no time to even think.

I will look over those links and from the bottom of my heart thank you for your support.

 

[sunshine1981]

Oh my gosh, I am so very sorry for your loss. I just lost my 3 year old guinea pig Honey 4 weeks ago. It is hard on the heart, our piggies are definitely apart of our family. Please don't blame yourself if your vet couldn't figure it out, how can blame yourself. It sounds to like you did everything you possibly could. You took her to the vet two times in one day, as soon as you noticed symptoms. It's so hard when our babies cannot tell us what is wrong. I pray that one day we all be reunited with our fur babies, and that your baby is popcorning and zooming all over the place. If hugs, my friend.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for your words of comfort and shared experience.
When you said diaphragmatic breathing but no noise that hit home. Maybe it was heart failure. There was no time to even think.

I will look over those links and from the bottom of my heart thank you for your support.

It is always difficult to try and make some sense of what has just happened. Sadly, without a post mortem vet examination (and sometimes even with one), we are all too often left without definite answers. Just as long as you can accept that these things happen and that they are not your fault.
Guinea pigs are very small animals with a fast metabolism, which we often forget because of their big personalities. Stuff happens that is beyond our control. They can go downhill extremely quickly, sometimes in a matter of hours or even just minutes in the case of a heart attack or stroke and very much out of the blue, often faster than any meds can kick in or lab tests can come back...
It doesn't make you a bad owner. Keep in mind that guinea pigs don't have a concept for an average life span; but they have very much a concept of what is a good time. As long as you give them a happy life, it doesn't matter so much whether it is short or long because you haven't failed them. When the chips are down, we can never choose when and what from our piggies die; that is out of our control and has to be accepted and endured as best as we can in exchange for all the joy they bring us. It never gets any easier to lose a piggy but our lives would be so much poorer without any pets...

I feel for you. It is hard to come to terms with.

PS: If it is any consolation to you, I have just lost 3 of my own piggies in less than a month. Two of them only 5 days apart; these are only the last of 8 piggies I have lost so far this year with another four very frail oldies still just about hanging in there; some of them I had to rush to the vets as an emergency euthanasia or they died at home rather unexpectedly; some had a gradual decline.
My most recent loss I found suddenly very disorientated and unable to walk properly during my last good night check after he had been perfectly normal at dinner time; Cai passed away just hours later. No warning, and I still haven't got any idea what went wrong in his brain (most likely)...

 

[TeganWillow]

It is always difficult to try and make some sense of what has just happened. Sadly, without a post mortem vet examination (and sometimes even with one), we are all too often left without definite answers. Just as long as you can accept that these things happen and that they are not your fault.
Guinea pigs are very small animals with a fast metabolism, which we often forget because of their big personalities. Stuff happens that is beyond our control. They can go downhill extremely quickly, sometimes in a matter of hours or even just minutes in the case of a heart attack or stroke and very much out of the blue, often faster than any meds can kick in or lab tests can come back...
It doesn't make you a bad owner. Keep in mind that guinea pigs don't have a concept for an average life span; but they have very much a concept of what is a good time. As long as you give them a happy life, it doesn't matter so much whether it is short or long because you haven't failed them. When the chips are down, we can never choose when and what from our piggies die; that is out of our control and has to be accepted and endured as best as we can in exchange for all the joy they bring us. It never gets any easier to lose a piggy but our lives would be so much poorer without any pets...

I feel for you. It is hard to come to terms with.

PS: If it is any consolation to you, I have just lost 3 of my own piggies in less than a month. Two of them only 5 days apart; these are only the last of 8 piggies I have lost so far this year with another four very frail oldies still just about hanging in there; some of them I had to rush to the vets as an emergency euthanasia or they died at home rather unexpectedly; some had a gradual decline.
My most recent loss I found suddenly very disorientated and unable to walk properly during my last good night check after he had been perfectly normal at dinner time; Cai passed away just hours later. No warning, and I still haven't got any idea what went wrong in his brain (most likely)...

That sounds horrible.
Does it ever make you think of not getting anymore?

I like how you said they have no concept of average life span. Only how happy they are.
I get so embarrassed being upset. When you say to friends or people at work my guinea pig died and you are bawling your eyes out people often look at you strangely. I lost a boy to desexing gone horribly wrong. Aiden was born in my home as I adopted his mum and she turned out to be pregnant. I will feel that grief to my dying day. The joy of holding him when he'd just been born, then sending him off to be desexed and him dying in agnoy with a vet that was so rude to me and I'll never go back to. If someone offered me a million dollars or to have Aiden back I would pick Aiden. No one could understand why I was so upset.

Anyway I say I won't get anymore but what else are you meant to do If they lose a cage mate get depressed etc.

 

[Freela]

I'm so sorry for your loss. Generally when they are not willing to swallow it's because their bodies are already shutting down. Guinea pigs can pass abruptly... the last piggie we lost was seemingly fine all day, was lethargic and slightly cool to touch around midnight when I was going to bed, and passed away in our arms by 3 a.m. One organ just follows the other and it's shockingly sudden. It doesn't get any easier. We had an awful stretch where we lost several pets in a short time (a much loved elderly guinea pig, two much-loved elderly hamsters, and a younger hamster who got terribly sick and had to be put to sleep because she was suffering.) It's awful. But don't be embarrassed for grieving. I know many people don't understand why we get so crushed by the losses of the little pets that aren't dogs or cats... but I honestly feel sorry for those people, because they don't know that the love and trust of a small animal is precious and that the importance of a life isn't based on the size of the animal or the number of years it lives. Years ago someone gave me a picture frame for a lost pet that says "How lucky I am to have had something that makes saying goodbye so hard." And I think that's true. ((HUGS)) and be kind to yourself as you grieve. You did everything you could to help her, you loved her and gave her a lovely life.

 

[Wiebke]

That sounds horrible.
Does it ever make you think of not getting anymore?

I like how you said they have no concept of average life span. Only how happy they are.
I get so embarrassed being upset. When you say to friends or people at work my guinea pig died and you are bawling your eyes out people often look at you strangely. I lost a boy to desexing gone horribly wrong. Aiden was born in my home as I adopted his mum and she turned out to be pregnant. I will feel that grief to my dying day. The joy of holding him when he'd just been born, then sending him off to be desexed and him dying in agnoy with a vet that was so rude to me and I'll never go back to. If someone offered me a million dollars or to have Aiden back I would pick Aiden. No one could understand why I was so upset.

Anyway I say I won't get anymore but what else are you meant to do If they lose a cage mate get depressed etc.

That is what the community on this forum is here for - we give each other understanding and support.

That is also what my grieving guide is for - help to understand more what you are experiencing with all the emotional extremes and very common reactions so you do not feel as lost and alone, and there are also some practical help tips, advice and links to further support places. I wish I'd had that in years past!
I am currently in grieving overload after losing 15 piggies in as many months after an amazing 18 months without any any losses during the worst of the pandemic; the last three piggies in less than a month (two of them just 5 days apart) in September/October. I still have some very frail oldies that could go at any time but this year past year will hopefully be the worst ever and the rate of losses is going to settle down again to a more manageable rate...

My cure: I've just adopted a whole dumped piggy family found living rough in wasteland and being caught by a forum in Cornwall. I am currently swimming in babies although I can't keep all of them as they are mostly boys. It's my last remaining piggy bucket dream and because of all my recent losses (reflecting my by big adoption orgy in the years around 2016-18) I can realise it a bit earlier than expected.

Piggies go back half a century in my life; I simply can't be without them. The joy they give me outweighs the pain. I've had over 80 now and have lost around 60. It never hurts any less because each bond is unique although I can recognise the mechanics and I have worked out the ethics on which I base any end of life decisions so I don't have to do that from scratch every time. There are always a few blessed ones amongst my adoptees that live to a very old age and some younger ones that die at an earlier age due to genetic or medical issues beyond my control. The majority thankfully lives to around 5-6 years but I have also got three 8 years olds amongst the piggies I have lost over the past 15 months. In the long term, it balances out although things never happen nicely spaced out and in the way you expect them to happen.