Guinea pig bond in trouble?

[GuineapigEm]

Hello,

I am a first time boar owner and have 2 boars that are almost 6 months old

In general, they have been ok with each other I think except for the expected dominance behaviours- some of these have gotten quite intense but there was never any blood drawn or resource guarding so I left them to it

Well today I got back from work and found one of them (who I thought was dominant but perhaps not?) has a bloody nose. I can’t tell if it’s a bite or a scratch but I’ve managed to put some leucillin on it

I have put a divider in their cage in case it was inflicted by the other pig however I did not see it happen so I truly don’t know. They have been chattering and rumblestrutting through the bars and one is bar biting the divider since I put it up.

Should I do a temporary separation, and if so how long for? Or is this the end of the line? I will be heartbroken if they can’t go back together

 

[fluffysal]

Welcome to the forum and the (usually) wonderful world of boars. One of the experts will be along with advice soon.
I am slave to The Beastie Boys, Dignified Sir George and his now neighboar Mischievous Master Boris. I was gutted when I had to separate my boys, honestly looking back I think they only lasted a year together because Sir George is a very laid back dominant. Much as I'd like to see them back together it's nice to see Sir George clearly so much more relaxed and playful now he's not being challenged all the time.
If they do need to stay separate the bar biting etc will settle. I am considering getting the boys to the plum fairy so they can have a wife each as I have space.
What are your boys names? Do you have pictures?

 

[GuineapigEm]

My boys are Bunsen and beaker, I can’t seem to work out how to insert pictures, do I need to do it from a computer I’m currently on my phone?

 

[Piggies&buns]

You add pictures by pressing ‘attach files’ below the message box. It may not be immediately available to you but will be when your registration on the forum is fully complete.

Does your cage meet size needs for two boars ie 180x60cm?
Do you have multiple of everything in the cage?
Do all hides have two doors?

As you don’t know what actually happened, I would suggest you leave them separate for a few days. In a few days time reintroduce them but you must do so properly. You need to put them on neutral territory and allow them to decide if they still wish to be together. It should become quite obvious quite soon if there are issues between them.
It must be neutral territory though. Do not just remove the divider in the cage and allow them to wander together as that will cause a fight as they will feel invaded by the ofher

If a fight occurs then the bond is definitely over

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

Oct 30, 2017

1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its own...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Behaviour, Bonds and Species Understanding

• 

 

[GuineapigEm]

You add pictures by pressing ‘attach files’ below the message box. It may not be immediately available to you but will be when your registration on the forum is fully complete.

Does your cage meet size needs for two boars ie 180x60cm?
Do you have multiple of everything in the cage?
Do all hides have two doors?

As you don’t know what actually happened, I would suggest you leave them separate for a few days. In a few days time reintroduce them but you must do so properly. You need to put them on neutral territory and allow them to decide if they still wish to be together. It should become quite obvious quite soon if there are issues between them.
It must be neutral territory though. Do not just remove the divider in the cage and allow them to wander together as that will cause a fight as they will feel invaded by the ofher

If a fight occurs then the bond is definitely over

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

Oct 30, 2017

1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its own...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Behaviour, Bonds and Species Understanding

• 

I have them in a 6x2 c&c (which I believe is 210x70?), they have a fleece Forrest on each end of the cage and a wooden tunnel- no other hideys. They are both now in an equivalent of a 3x2 and I’ve removed the wooden tunnel, they each have a fleece Forrest and piles of hay. They had 2 water bottles and I fed them in two separate bowls in different areas of the cage.

They are both totally ignoring each other, the dividers been in about an hour. They don’t seem to be calling for each other or missing each other at all- this isn’t a good sign isn’t it?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I have them in a 6x2 c&c (which I believe is 210x70?), they have a fleece Forrest on each end of the cage and a wooden tunnel- no other hideys. They are both now in an equivalent of a 3x2 and I’ve removed the wooden tunnel, they each have a fleece Forrest and piles of hay. They had 2 water bottles and I fed them in two separate bowls in different areas of the cage.

They are both totally ignoring each other, the dividers been in about an hour. They don’t seem to be calling for each other or missing each other at all- this isn’t a good sign isn’t it?

Good - cage size and set up is/was fine.

It is sounding like they are rather happy having their own territories.
It is important you know that behaviours at the divider are not necessarily good anyway. Things such as laying either side of it etc are actually hostile/territory marking, not them wanting to be together.

I have divided boars myself and they are much happier apart

 

[GuineapigEm]

Good - cage size and set up is/was fine.

It is sounding like they are rather happy having their own territories.
It is important you know that behaviours at the divider are not necessarily good anyway. Things such as laying either side of it etc are actually hostile/territory marking, not them wanting to be together.

I have divided boars myself and they are much happier apart

They keep managing to find ways around the barrier, and one piggy is getting particularly distressed by the separation, biting the bars non stop. I just witnessed an escape and both of them started rumble strutting immediately and they continue to do this through the bars now the bars are back up- is there anything I can do to help them?

 

[Piggies&buns]

They simply have to get used to the separation but you will still see dominance between the bars. They also need plenty of mental stimulation within their own territory.
My boys have been separated for coming on two years (one of them has a new friend now also) and they all still rumble between the bars. I also have a bar biter - mostly when it is food time! Often a dominant piggy will be distressed by a separation but you have to ignore their reaction. These behaviours alone are not a sign they actually are able to have a functioning relationship. It all depends what happens if and when you try a neutral territory reintroduction.

I would cable tie the grids together to stop these kinds of escapes. One piggy going into the territory of another is likely to cause a fight if their bond is in trouble .

Regarding the mental stimulation - One thing I would do is to stop using food bowls, particularly now they are separated.
Scatter feeding their veg into hay piles provides them with enrichment and mental stimulation. Piggies spend a vast parts of their day foraging and searching for veg within the hay is a way of doing that. Eating from a bowl does not provide any mental stimulation and means a meal time is over in minutes.

 

[GuineapigEm]

Managed to add photos! First two are of Bunsen and his nose injury- does it look like a bite? Third is beaker and the last is the two of them when they were babies and had only been home a week or so- can’t believe I may never have a photo of them together again- this really is heartbreaking

 

[Piggies&buns]

It looks like it could be a bite or a swipe - there is an injury anyway.
I know it’s sad when a bond breaks but if it has broken then they will be happier apart.
There is that bit of a risk when taking on young boars - although most do make it together - that once the hormones kick in then incompatibility can come to light.
My two separated boars were just 18 weeks old when they had a huge fight. They had only been with me 9 weeks when it happened. They turn 2 years in a couple of weeks so have been apart a long time. When one of my other boars passed away a couple of months ago and his friend (6 years old) was then left single, I eventually decided to take the chance and bond two of them which worked out wonderfully

 

[GuineapigEm]

I am going to attempt a re introduction on Sunday, but I am fully planning for a permanent separation- I’ve just started ordering more chloroplast and grids to give them a more permanent dividing wall and hopefully expand their temporary 3x2 into 4x2s so they can at least each have a bit more room. In the future if I do go down this route, would a boar and a sow be ok in a 4x2 (after the boar is properly neutered of course)?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes a 4x2 is absolutely fine for a neutered boar/sow pair

 

[GuineapigEm]

Little bit of an update! After discussing everything with a friend of mine who has had piggies for many many years, I am currently attempting a re-introduction! They have been in the neutral zone for about 3 hours now with only very minor tension that quickly diffused either on its own or with a pea flake bribe from me. They are both either napping or eating as I speak and I am very hopeful they will make it back into their cage together

 

[Piggies&buns]

That’s good. Do keep a close eye as if there is an issue it will escalate again at some point.

Do note they there should not be hides in the neutral pen as they create territories

 

[GuineapigEm]

That’s good. Do keep a close eye as if there is an issue it will escalate again at some point.

Do note they there should not be hides in the neutral pen as they create territories

I didn’t originally but my friend recommended I did as it would help them feel more comfortable? They don’t seem to be causing any issues but should I take them out? They’ve been in there over 3 hours now

 

[Piggies&buns]

I didn’t originally but my friend recommended I did as it would help them feel more comfortable? They don’t seem to be causing any issues but should I take them out? They’ve been in there over 3 hours now

We don’t recommend their use in bonding pens. I would remove them.

I would leave them longer in the pen. As there had been the potential that there was an issue between them, the worst thing you can do at this point is to rush this stage. The longer they are in the neutral pen before being moved back to the cage the better

 

[GuineapigEm]

We don’t recommend their use in bonding pens. I would remove them.

I would leave them longer in the pen. As there had been the potential that there was an issue between them, the worst thing you can do at this point is to rush this stage. The longer they are in the neutral pen before being moved back to the cage the better

Ok I am removing them now, I bookmarked the entire day to this so they will be in this pen for as long as they need and I have no intention of rushing them or this process, especially as it has gone so well so far!

 

[fluffysal]

Before my boys were neighboars I thought having them separated would be terrible. However Dignified Sir George, who was the dominant, seems to be thriving. He's visibly more relaxed. They still interact frequently through the bars but when Mischievous Master Boris is in one of his challenging moods he can walk away.
If the reunion doesn't work long term, it's not the worst thing in the world.

 

[Ramia]

I second what fluffysal says. My emergency vet suggested separating my boys because Stripe got sick and Chez started challenging him and Stripe was so sick he couldn't do anything about it. The boys seem fine and when I take Stripe to the vet Chez is always worried sick when we get back, so they still have a bond.