Guinea pig boars fighting, don't know what to do

[leenamars]

Hello,

About 2 months ago we got two boars: Louie and Luffy. They were about 5 weeks old when we got them. From the start it was quite clear Luffy was the dominant one. Louie was a lot more reserved and quiet. A week and a half ago we got a third boar, Boo, since we felt three guinea pigs was the perfect number. Boo is about 5 weeks old now. During the first few days everything was fine between the boys. We noticed Louie had started to show more dominant behavior, but we figured that was normal since he probably wanted to show Boo he was above him.
However, Louie's behavior started to get more intense: constantly trying to mount Boo, shaking his butt, wanting to be around Boo all the time and just simply not leaving him alone. Luffy started to interfere and chasing Louie away from Boo. We thought this behavior would blow over in a few days. We tried separating Boo for a day since he seemed to be getting stressed. The tension between Louie and Luffy seemed to disappear with Boo not being around, but all the pigs were really quiet and not their usual popcorning, happy selves. We wanted to put Boo back with the boys and thought the dominant behavior settle down after the hierarchy had been set again.
But for the past few days there has been extreme tension between Louie and Luffy. It seems like Louie is challenging Luffy: they are clattering their teeth, puffing their fur, shaking their butts, chasing each other away. This morning I woke up to the pigs being very noisy. Suddenly, I heard some loud screeching and saw Louie and Luffy physically on top of each other fighting. I immediately broke them up. When I tried putting them back together after 10 minutes, the teeth clattering and butt shaking started again.

For now we have separated Louie. Luffy and Boo seem fine with this, but Louie seems very stressed. This might be because he is not in his usual home.
We don't want to keep them separately, because we don't have space for this. Louie is temporarily in a pet store cage which is obviously not ideal. We are just at loss of what we should do. It would also break our heart if we have to get rid of one of the pigs.

Do you have any suggestions? Is there any chance the three of them can live together peacefully? What is the best thing for us to do now?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Bradshaw Piggies]

Hi,

Unfortunately (just speaking from my own experience and that of others on here) boar trios very very rarely work out. It's the reason I currently have a single boar next to other boar pairs (until I find him a new companion to bond with); if boar trios or groups worked, my life would be easier as all of my boys would live together. But boars are best in bonded pairs (or one neutered boar to a group of sows).

if they have been fighting, it is highly unlikely that the bond can be reestablished. They will need to live separately (with a different companion for Louie).

So sorry that you have ended up in this position.

Are the remaining boar pair getting along?

 

[Two_Wheeks]

As a general (and wide-spread) rule, boars should only be kept in pairs. Trios very rarely work out, I'm afraid. A pair will find a balance of dominance, adding a third in will mix this up and there is no balance to be had there. You have also yet to hit the real hormone spikes, so things will likely only get worse.

Female piggies do well in groups, sadly not boys.

It sounds like to mix-up has broken Louie and Luffy's bond - had they drawn blood? If not, it may be saveable, but you would have to reintroduce them on completely neutral territory and see how it goes. Normal dominance attempts during bonding is to be expected, and there are some great guides on here. If the rebond works, Boo needs to be separated from them both.

For now, if Luffy and Boo seem to be doing ok, I would leave Louie in a separate cage where he can still smell/see the others, and consider getting him a boar friend and bonding them, if he cannot rebond with Louie - or getting him neutered and getting him a piggie wife (he must be neutered well before you introduce a female!).

Sorry you are going through this. I'm sure you will be able to make things work out one way or another - but please only keep two boys together.

I'm sure other, more experienced members, will be along with advice shortly

 

[Piggies&buns]

I'm sorry to hear this. I can only agree though. Adding a third boar to a bonded pair will destroy bonds. Boars can only live in pairs (it’s sows which can live in groups).

Character compatibility is vital and boars find it very hard to make it work as a trio which is why they fail once they hit their teens (and most won’t make it as far as adulthood together). On top of that, space requirements to attempt a trio extend beyond normal cage sizing requirements and they require at least a 300x100cm cage to stand any chance of having enough room, but even then it won’t make them like each other, it just means they can move further away from each other but are still just as likely to fight.

I’m afraid you will now need to keep a pair and a single permanently. If Luffy and Boo are ok together then they can remain as a pair but Louie will need to be kept in a separate cage but side by side with the pair for interaction through the bars.
If you were to try to reintroduce him to the other two, it will result in more falls out and potentially at worst can also cause Luffy and Boo to start fighting meaning you would have three single piggies.

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

 

[leenamars]

Thank you for the replies,

Hi,

Unfortunately (just speaking from my own experience and that of others on here) boar trios very very rarely work out. It's the reason I currently have a single boar next to other boar pairs (until I find him a new companion to bond with); if boar trios or groups worked, my life would be easier as all of my boys would live together. But boars are best in bonded pairs (or one neutered boar to a group of sows).

if they have been fighting, it is highly unlikely that the bond can be reestablished. They will need to live separately (with a different companion for Louie).

So sorry that you have ended up in this position.

Are the remaining boar pair getting along?

Hi,

Thank you for the reply.
For some reason when Boo is not there, Louie and Luffy get along fine. There seems to be an occasional small tension, but they leave each other alone for the most part and they will eat together etc. just like before. However, the fighting begins again when Boo is there. Boo gets along fine with Luffy, but just not with Louie.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you for the replies,

Hi,

Thank you for the reply.
For some reason when Boo is not there, Louie and Luffy get along fine. There seems to be an occasional small tension, but they leave each other alone for the most part and they will eat together etc. just like before. However, the fighting begins again when Boo is there. Boo gets along fine with Luffy, but just not with Louie.

Its because of character incompatibility, and the fact three together won’t work.
All you can do is keep the two who get on best together and the third one will need to stay in a separate cage.

 

[leenamars]

As a general (and wide-spread) rule, boars should only be kept in pairs. Trios very rarely work out, I'm afraid. A pair will find a balance of dominance, adding a third in will mix this up and there is no balance to be had there. You have also yet to hit the real hormone spikes, so things will likely only get worse.

Female piggies do well in groups, sadly not boys.

It sounds like to mix-up has broken Louie and Luffy's bond - had they drawn blood? If not, it may be saveable, but you would have to reintroduce them on completely neutral territory and see how it goes. Normal dominance attempts during bonding is to be expected, and there are some great guides on here. If the rebond works, Boo needs to be separated from them both.

For now, if Luffy and Boo seem to be doing ok, I would leave Louie in a separate cage where he can still smell/see the others, and consider getting him a boar friend and bonding them, if he cannot rebond with Louie - or getting him neutered and getting him a piggie wife (he must be neutered well before you introduce a female!).

Sorry you are going through this. I'm sure you will be able to make things work out one way or another - but please only keep two boys together.

I'm sure other, more experienced members, will be along with advice shortly

Thank you for the advice. We are sad to be in the situation, because we were not aware bonding three boars rarely works out. We told the pet shop that we wanted a third pig to add to our two boys and they did not advice against this. In the past I have had four boars living together, and they never seemed to have an issue with each other. I didn't consider the option that that was a rare occasion.
Louie and Luffy are fine now, when Boo isn't with them in the cage. We are not sure whether it is best to separate Louie or Boo, since both Luffy and Louie and Luffy and Boo bond well together when it's just the two of them.

 

[leenamars]

Its because of character incompatibility, and the fact three together won’t work.
All you can do is keep the two who get on best together and the third one will need to stay in a separate cage.

Would you say it would be more fair for Boo to go back to the pet store since he is only 5 weeks old and hope he finds a good home, or keep him separate for another 9 months (which is when we will move to a bigger apartment and we will have enough space for two separate cages that are big enough for 2 pairs).

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you for the advice. We are sad to be in the situation, because we were not aware bonding three boars rarely works out. We told the pet shop that we wanted a third pig to add to our two boys and they did not advice against this. In the past I have had four boars living together, and they never seemed to have an issue with each other. I didn't consider the option that that was a rare occasion.
Louie and Luffy are fine now, when Boo isn't with them in the cage. We are not sure whether it is best to separate Louie or Boo, since both Luffy and Louie and Luffy and Boo bond well together when it's just the two of them.

Unfortunately pet shops are not the best sources of advice. We see this a lot.
You were exceedingly lucky if you had four boars together previously. Boar quartets have an even higher fall out rate than trios do.

Would you say it would be more fair for Boo to go back to the pet store since he is only 5 weeks old and hope he finds a good home, or keep him separate for another 9 months (which is when we will move to a bigger apartment and we will have enough space for two separate cages that are big enough for 2 pairs).

It’s a decision for you really and whether you can manage with four piggies.
If you can’t keep him then we would recommend he is surrendered to a rescue centre and not returned to a pet shop. If he goes to a rescue he will be properly bonded with another piggy and rehomed suitably.
If he goes back to the pet shop then there is every risk the shop may continue to give bad advice and perhaps even sell him as a single which would be even worse for him.

Boo is very young to be alone so if you are going to keep all three of them, then he really needs to be in with one of the other two now. I would personally put him in with the one he gets on best with, probably Luffy from what you have said and then leave Louie single.
But the fact is Boo isn’t yet a teenager so it could change when he gets older.
What you can’t have is two dominant boars together as that will fail and end in fights.
The other issue with having Louie and Luffy together is that with them being the same age, they will be hitting the hormone spikes at the same t8e (main ones being 4-6 months and around 9-10 months of age) which can increase tensions. Not necessarily a problem if they are compatible and want to be together but it’s something to consider.

Is the cage big enough for two boars? A cage measuring 180x60cm is needed for two boars to have enough space. If it is smaller than that then you also risk issues with lack of space for the pair (which can cause fall outs).

The best way to get a new friend for the one who is single is to go to a rescue centre and have them help you find a character compatible friend for him. Once boars get into their teens, bonding them can become harder due to the hormones, so having the help of a centre will be very valuable.
If you were to go and buy another piggy from a pet shop to be a friend for the single, then you are risking another incompatibility and risk of another single piggy - you could end up with one pair and two singles.