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Guinea pig being treated for URI and not eating

historickitty

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Hi all,
Looking for some advice please.
A fortnight or so now we rushed one of our guinea pigs, Corky, in as an emergency appointment on a Saturday evening due to that fact she had suddenly become extremely listless and was showing no interest in food. She was promptly diagnosed with an early URI and prescribed 0.5ml of Baytril once a day and 0.1ml of metacam. She didn't seem to get much better on this and was still displaying the same symptoms so we brought her back to the vets a couple of days later.
It was a different vet this time, who has some good experience with exotics and used to work in a practice that specialises in them although he professed he was no guinea pig expert. He assessed Corky and said that her breathing wasn't good still and that the best course of action would be to try another antibiotic - this time he gave us Sulfatrim, 0.25ml twice a day. He said not to bother carrying on with the metacam as he didn't feel it would be making much difference at this stage. He advised booking her in for a further check up in a few days time to see how the Sulfatrim was working and if it wasn't, further checks could be done on her teeth and possibly x-rays - although he was not keen to jump to the latter as she would have to be sedated and as she was already weak and having respitatory issues this could have a detrimental impact on her.
A couple of days passed before her follow up appointment and we were actually starting to see some improvement; she was helping herself to the odd few mouthfuls of hay (not a lot but it was better than nothing as was the case previously) and she was being a little more active. This whole time she had at least been drinking herself so we hadn't had to worry about dehydration. The follow up appointment (with yet another different vet - we had seen 3 at this point) rolled around on a morning and while she had lost some weight, this other vet seemed pleased that her breathing had improved and she was starting to eat a little for herself again. She also listened to Corky's heart and checked her teeth and couldn't find anything concerning on first look. She advised us to keep up the Sulfatrim until Corky had had a course of about ten days worth but she disagreed with the previous vet re the metacam as said we should have her back on that for a further 3-5 days or so.

After all of these positives, that same day Corky just seemed to go downhill again that very same day in the afternoon. Not only was she now not eating at all again but she seems to have stopped drinking for herself as well. We are supplimenting her with critical care every few hours during the day - I can't do all night because I'm 8 months pregnant and struggling as it is- we are also making sure she gets some water with every feed with some pro-c mixed in at first until I switched to Fibreplex. We are weighing her every day and she is losing weight and seems to be losing hair more than she usually does, although it may just be the time of year.

At this point we're at a loss as to what to do. She's hanging in there but she just seems constantly spaced out and is either sitting and staring into space or sleeping. When we feed her she perks up a bit and still shows some spirit when she's wriggling like a mad piggy and objecting to her medicine. Could the meds be killing her appetite and subsequently her energy is just low? We're so worried that the medication is doing more harm than good to her at this point and whether we need to take her back to the vets or whether we stick it until the end of the course? (It'll be done by this Thursday)
 
I’m sorry to hear she is unwell.

Antibiotics can affect their appetite, so a probiotic is a good idea. As she has a diagnosed URI, you must continue with the antibiotics - under-treating a URI risks long term damage.
The fact she is losing weight despite critical care suggests she isn’t getting enough critical care. You need to syringe feed as much as is necessary to keep her weight stable.
How much critical care is she getting in each 24 hours? You need at least 60ml, but as I said, the reality is that it is as much as is necessary so she doesn’t lose weight.

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
 
Hi

Please be aware that three quarters of what your piggy is eating in a day is actually hay; you need to replace that with powdered recovery formula. Just nibbling on a little food is the equivalent of nibbling on a little cookie - but unlike humans, guinea pigs cannot afford to fast; they rely on a steady food intake.

You are aiming at 40-60 ml of support feed over 24 hours - the closer to the lower you can come, the more of a survival chance your piggy has, the closer to the upper limit, the better the recovery chance. You have to adapt the frequency of feeding sessions to how much you can get into your piggy in one session.

Here is the link to out syringe feeding and medicating guide. We have made it as comprehensive and all in one go with all the little practical questions addressed as much as possible, including probiotics and 'poo soup' (i.e. live healthy microbiome transfer), emergency improvisation, how often/much to feed, videos and pictures and all the little tips of how to get a little more food and water into a very ill piggy: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

Unfortunately, with respiratory infections, the digestive tract in guinea pigs is taking a double whammy because the need to breathe comes before the need to drink and only thirdly the need to eat - and since guinea pigs are not much in the way of mouth breathers and their airways are very small and narrow, this means loss of appetite in any serious case.
In addition, some antibiotics like baytril can also impact more strongly on the gut microbiome that is responsible for the digestive process and in the worst case, totally wipe it out.
This the reason why prompt syringe feeding support for piggies with URI and loss of appetite is absolutely crucial/

Please also contact your vet clinic.

Here is more helpful information for crisis care support: Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

All the best!
 
Thank you both, that's all really helpful! From what both of you have said, while we have been feeding her critical care every few hours we haven't been getting enough into her at each feed. We will up this and aim for the 40ml-60ml mark per 24 hours and hopefully this will help her.
 
Thank you both, that's all really helpful! From what both of you have said, while we have been feeding her critical care every few hours we haven't been getting enough into her at each feed. We will up this and aim for the 40ml-60ml mark per 24 hours and hopefully this will help her.

Hi

A piggy totally off food will often not take more than 5-10 ml in a sitting; this means that you have to feed more often.

Please read our syringe feeding guide; you will find loads of really helpful practical little how-to tips and solutions in the link! ;)
 
Hi

A piggy totally off food will often not take more than 5-10 ml in a sitting; this means that you have to feed more often.

Please read our syringe feeding guide; you will find loads of really helpful practical little how-to tips and solutions in the link! ;)
Thank you! I've actually just been reading this already and found it very helpful :) We've just done a feed with her and she did take 10ml quite easily so we'll just see how we go and adjust accordingly.
 
Thank you! I've actually just been reading this already and found it very helpful :) We've just done a feed with her and she did take 10ml quite easily so we'll just see how we go and adjust accordingly.

That is great news!

10 ml in one go generally means that she is NOT fighting for her life and has not totally lost her appetite - if you struggle to get to 5 ml or just a little further then you are really up against it. ;)

Try to see whether you can get about 6 feeds into her over the course of 24 hours but make sure that you get some unbroken sleep yourself. That will hopefully get her through the crisis. Try to offer a little fresh stuff, like a little fresh (but not damp) grass or fresh herbs and pellets after about 5 ml and see whether the feed helps to stimulate her appetite; then finish off with my syringe feed.

All the best.
 
A further update on Corky as we continue to be stumped.

Yesterday was her last day of the antibiotics (she's been on it ten days now), she had her last dose last night.

We've been upping the syring feeding as advised and also been giving her water as she hadn't been visibly drinking any for herself. Anyway, on Wednesday during one of her feeds we noticed that she appears to be trying to squeak and make noises (she was a very chatty piggy prior to this and would squeak away to you while being held), however, she can't and it comes out like some weird raspy noise. This is a new development as before she had either been completely silent or managing to do the odd little couple of squeaks before she got too ill. I don't know whether to be worried that she can't and it sounds so raspy or encouraged that she's trying again.

To add to this, during feedings she has started having the odd clicking noise which appears to be coming from her nose or throat. It continues for a little bit, then she does a big sneeze/cough which seems to clear it and then she carries on.

My big fear here is that the antibiotic she's been on has stopped working and this is yet more URI symptoms however they only seem to occur when she's eating or drinking - more so the latter. In terms of her appetite overall, there's been a small but marked improvement and since yesterday she has started going to the food bowl herself and helping herself to their nuggets, she's taken a couple of pea flakes from me (complete with putting her front feet on the bars which is what she did prior to being sick) and snatched a piece of pepper this morning and devoured most of it. Still not eating hay for herself, which is frustrating but really hoping that she'll get there.

I'm torn - do we just monitor how she is today? I don't necessarily feel like I want to rush her back to the vets for yet more antibiotics that will kill her appetite off completely again and mess up her gut flora when we're seeing progress. But on the other hand, these noises are worrying. I don't know if piggies recover the same way we do in that she's just got a bit of residual irritation in her throat and the sudden intake of more fluids and food is just irritating it?
 
A further update on Corky as we continue to be stumped.

Yesterday was her last day of the antibiotics (she's been on it ten days now), she had her last dose last night.

We've been upping the syring feeding as advised and also been giving her water as she hadn't been visibly drinking any for herself. Anyway, on Wednesday during one of her feeds we noticed that she appears to be trying to squeak and make noises (she was a very chatty piggy prior to this and would squeak away to you while being held), however, she can't and it comes out like some weird raspy noise. This is a new development as before she had either been completely silent or managing to do the odd little couple of squeaks before she got too ill. I don't know whether to be worried that she can't and it sounds so raspy or encouraged that she's trying again.

To add to this, during feedings she has started having the odd clicking noise which appears to be coming from her nose or throat. It continues for a little bit, then she does a big sneeze/cough which seems to clear it and then she carries on.

My big fear here is that the antibiotic she's been on has stopped working and this is yet more URI symptoms however they only seem to occur when she's eating or drinking - more so the latter. In terms of her appetite overall, there's been a small but marked improvement and since yesterday she has started going to the food bowl herself and helping herself to their nuggets, she's taken a couple of pea flakes from me (complete with putting her front feet on the bars which is what she did prior to being sick) and snatched a piece of pepper this morning and devoured most of it. Still not eating hay for herself, which is frustrating but really hoping that she'll get there.

I'm torn - do we just monitor how she is today? I don't necessarily feel like I want to rush her back to the vets for yet more antibiotics that will kill her appetite off completely again and mess up her gut flora when we're seeing progress. But on the other hand, these noises are worrying. I don't know if piggies recover the same way we do in that she's just got a bit of residual irritation in her throat and the sudden intake of more fluids and food is just irritating it?

Hi

Please make sure to only give about 0.3 ml at once (slowly) and that you do not push any water in her mouth but allow her to drink from the syringe. Always wait for the previous lot to go down. Support feeding is not a quick process and you cannot rush it.
The clicking and funny noises are from water/feed having gone up the nose when you fed too much too quickly.

See chapter 8 in our syringe feeding guide; it deals with these aspects many first time owners struggle with right at the start of the chapter: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
 
Hi

Please make sure to only give about 0.3 ml at once (slowly) and that you do not push any water in her mouth but allow her to drink from the syringe. Always wait for the previous lot to go down. Support feeding is not a quick process and you cannot rush it.
The clicking and funny noises are from water/feed having gone up the nose when you fed too much too quickly.

See chapter 8 in our syringe feeding guide; it deals with these aspects many first time owners struggle with right at the start of the chapter: All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
That's helpful, thank you. She does start spluttering when she's drinking independently from her water bottle as well though so I assume this is just her guzzling it too quickly herself?
 
That's helpful, thank you. She does start spluttering when she's drinking independently from her water bottle as well though so I assume this is just her guzzling it too quickly herself?

Yes, indeed. See whether fixing the bottle at a different height can make drinking a bit easier.

It's a bit of a trial and error process. Piggies have individually very different drinking strategies. Unfortunately, we cannot ask them directly...
 
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