Grumpy Old Sow

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annaa

annaa

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hello!
I've not been on here for ages, but looking for some more piggy advice please.

We rehomed a pair of sows just under 4 years ago (Millie and Mouse). Mouse was always a bit grumpy, lots of rumble strutting and a bit of chasing, and seems to prefer her own space. We got them as a pair and they had always lived together, but they never seemed particularly close: they never cuddled up to each other as I've seen described on here. They did seem to live reasonably happily alongside one another though, and I never thought Millie was being bullied, she had access to the food and water - they would happily share.

Just over a week ago we suddenly lost Millie. Mouse became really unsettled and seemed terrified with out her companion. I tried all the local rescue places I could find to see if a new sow could be found for her, but no one had anything suitable to try bonding her with. Then I found a 5 month old sow advertised locally. She was living on her own as the owner had been advised to do so by the pet shop she had bought her from. Apparently she had been hand reared as her mother had rejected her and the shop assistants had advised she never live with another guinea pig because of this.

I did some searching and could not find any reason why a hand reared guinea should not be able to live with other pigs - so (rather rashly?) I went and got her. I had intended to leave them in cages side by side for a few days, so that Patch could settle in to her new surroundings and they could become accustomed to one another gradually. But Patch was so interested in Mouse and started gnawing at the bars of the cage, looking like she wanted to get over and meet her. So we took the plunge last night and popped them in the bath together to see how they would get on. Cue lots of dominance behaviour from Mouse and little appeasing wheeks from Patch. Mouse kept trying to mount Patch, who was having none of it, and most of the scuffles witnessed were because of this. Not much nipping (though Mouse has had a small chunk of Patch's fur out) and Patch has not attempted to mount Mouse at all. Patch's seems to really want to be friends, but this morning we have had rumbling from Mouse and a fair bit of teeth chattering. They are spending most of their time at opposite sides of the cage. But then Mouse was like that with Millie (but there was no teeth chattering, that's new).

So - do we leave it a little longer and see how they settle down? Or is the teeth chattering a sign that it is not going to work? Patch is such an adorable little thing, who loves being stroked, is very vocal and inquisitive - totally different to Mouse, who never seems to like being handled, no matter how much we try to get her used to it and who, if there is a pigloo in the cage will spend her whole time in it, moving it around the cage from underneath so she can stay in it.
 
A little bit of chattering should be okay, as long as it doesn't go any further than that. I've heard tales of some pigs who go right up to the wire chattering and chinning and then back off and resume living together in harmony. It's definitely a behaviour to watch out for, but not grounds for a separation. Dominance behaviours (including chattering) are very normal to witness especially in the early stages of the bond. When I introduced my boys I thought Keiko would never stop rumbling but now his rumbling happens only when Milo wakes him up it seems! Lazy pig Keiko is, doesn't like to be disturbed from his naps. Just keep an eye on them, make sure everything is spread out in their cage is spaced out (at least a body length apart) so there isn't any forced interaction (like having to share one water bottle for example)
 
I'm now wondering how much of it is down to fear aggression. Her body language is very defensive and stiff. I got them out to put them in run the outside (as it's a lovely day and there is a bit more room for them) and Mouse was chattering her teeth at me, heckles raised. She has NEVER done that before. I had them both in my lap as Patch chats happily when stroked, and I hoped it might help Mouse relax a little. It seemed to work, as I got happy noises from Mouse (which almost never happens) but she stayed almost absolutely still the whole time (unlike Patch who was climbing everywhere!)
 
annaa said:
I'm now wondering how much of it is down to fear aggression. Her body language is very defensive and stiff. I got them out to put them in run the outside (as it's a lovely day and there is a bit more room for them) and Mouse was chattering her teeth at me, heckles raised. She has NEVER done that before. I had them both in my lap as Patch chats happily when stroked, and I hoped it might help Mouse relax a little. It seemed to work, as I got happy noises from Mouse (which almost never happens) but she stayed almost absolutely still the whole time (unlike Patch who was climbing everywhere!)
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Older sows are often not easy to rebond, especially when they have always lived with just one piggy and are not used to meeting new ones. A lot is often down to insecurity/fear, but a few are downright difficult to impossible to find a new friend. All you can do is to try and work out what is the case. You may find Windhwistle Warren Guinea Pig Rescue near Cheltenham very experienced; they offer dating at the rescue.
Illustrated Bonding Behaviours And Dynamics
Welcome | Windwhistle Warren
 
Thanks Wiebke - I've been in touch with Windwhistle. Maybe I'll see about taking them both down there and get some expert advice on their behaviour and, if necessary we can put Mouse in a cage on her own next to a cage with Patch + new friend....
 
VickiA said:
Believe me, I'm an expert in older sows - it's not the fact the youngster was hand reared! It's the grumpy older sow syndrome.
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I second Vicki - I have currently got a raft of older girls that have decided to no long er get on with each other and have become extremely picky to virtually unbondable. :mal:

Nothing to do with hand rearing!
 
What are your older girls like when put with other guinea pigs Wiebke? I'm wondering how long to leave them to sort themselves out (if they are going to)? If there isn't a full on fight, at what point do say that it isn't going to work?
 
Still sounds ok but keep a close eye on them, rumble strutting and mounting are both normal dominance behaviours. Sounds ok that they are keeping to opposite ends of the cage. Little nips and chasing are normal too. They may never sleep together but may settle in time.
Time to separate is when the chattering escalates to loud clacking (you can hear the difference) or if they are flying at each other in a rolling gnashing fur ball.
Only time and further observing will see if the bond will be successful. Good luck
 
Things have started to settle down today - with Mouse making more of the appeasing chutting/wheeking noises. If Patch was a bit bigger I think this would probably have been sorted out already - but she is just not quite big enough to assert her dominance. Most of the time they are quietly eating together - then the occasional flurry of activity and it all settles down again. I'm finding watching the changing dynamics of the relationship very interesting - I really didn't expect Mouse to become the subordinate pig, given how she behaved towards her sister. But it certainly looks like the balance is tipped towards Patch, though it's a close thing.
Here they are munching on some grass together :)

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:D Aaaawww, they are a very pretty pair. I hope that they can sort themselves out without coming to blows.
 
Things have calmed down quite a bit today. I put them out in the living room in the outdoor run we have to give them a bit more space and it seemed to work wonders. They even lay down under the log tunnel together! They are still having the occasional strut at each other but most of the other behaviour has reduced. I'm now looking at getting rid of some furniture so we have the room for a larger cage as it is obviously what they need.
 
annaa said:
Things have calmed down quite a bit today. I put them out in the living room in the outdoor run we have to give them a bit more space and it seemed to work wonders. They even lay down under the log tunnel together! They are still having the occasional strut at each other but most of the other behaviour has reduced. I'm now looking at getting rid of some furniture so we have the room for a larger cage as it is obviously what they need.
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It's great when you see two guinea pigs starting to get on! I'm so happy I introduced two younger sows to my pair because the older ones seem so much happier and enjoying life (don't actually know if that's just because there's a larger pile of veggies or they like the company!).

But anyway my grumpy sow had a conplete personality change and is now calmer and even popcorning :D Mouse may do the same!
 
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