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Gritty pee

Mclayton

Mclayton

Junior Guinea Pig
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Location
Stoke on Trent
So sorry keep posting similar things. I suffer anxiety, & I'm worried about my piggies. No problems for the first month of having them. Then possible UTI, for one of them. Was sorted. Had x ray, scan, urinalysis to rule out bladder stones, crystals. Got the all clear. As a precaution going forward, both are on 1 Cystease capsule a day. Filtered water, grain free pellets. Been following the IC diet. Cucumber, pepper, celery, coriander daily. They seem terrible now. With the squeaking when peeing. Vet can't find anything wrong. Should coriander be given daily? Or celery? They only got worse since this diet. Please, can someone help me?
 
Could I just ask for a bit more info? How old are your beloved piggies? Do you know what they weigh and whether they are maintaining or losing weight?

Do they squeak with every pee? Or only sometimes? Is there blood?

When you say the UTI was sorted did your symptoms stop after starting antibiotics? Maybe within a day or two? Or not until the end of the course? And PS, how long was the course for?

Did the vet give a diagnosis of Sterile Interstitial Cystitis? I'm just wondering why you are on an IC diet, you see. And if they said SIC did they prescribe metacam/loxicom/gabapentin/something else for flare-ups? How much per piggy per day?

Sorry for all the questions. I'm just catching up and it will help people address things better
(I'm offline until the morning now but I hope you're doing OK, anxiety is a beast x)
 
As I advised on your other threads, white powdery urine is the normal way of excreting calcium. It’s only concerning if it is gritty. They can also excrete powdery pees if the diet is too low in calcium.
A diet too low in calcium can cause as many issues too high in calcium so if there are no actual bladder issues diagnosed and you’re feeding them as if they have issues then it’s maybe you’ve reduced things too low and have knocked out the balance?
White wee

You said on this thread
Food
that the issue was an infection. It was cleared with antibiotics and the vet ruled out IC.
If that is still the case then they do not need to be following an IC diet.

Coriander can be given daily.
Lettuce can also be given daily, and can be given to piggies even with IC.
Wiebke has confirmed that IC flares tend to be caused by changes to the diet not by the diet itself, although individual piggies can have issues with certain items.

I’ve linked in your other threads in this post so we can see the background.
 
Piggies&buns said:
As I advised on your other threads, white powdery urine is the normal way of excreting calcium. It’s only concerning if it is gritty.
White wee

You said on this thread
Food
that the issue was an infection not sterile cystitis. It was cleared with antibiotics and the vet ruled out IC.

A diet too low in calcium can cause as many issues too high in calcium so if there are no actual bladder issues diagnosed then it’s maybe you’ve reduced things too low and have knocked out the calcium balance.

Coriander can be given daily.
Lettuce can also be given daily and can be given to piggies even with IC.
Wiebke has confirmed that IC flares tend to be caused by changes to the diet not by the diet itself, although individual piggies can have issues with certain items.

I’ve linked in your other threads in this post so we can see the background.
Click to expand...
 
Piggies&buns said:
As I advised on your other threads, white powdery urine is the normal way of excreting calcium. It’s only concerning if it is gritty.
White wee

You said on this thread
Food
that the issue was an infection not sterile cystitis. It was cleared with antibiotics and the vet ruled out IC.

A diet too low in calcium can cause as many issues too high in calcium so if there are no actual bladder issues diagnosed then it’s maybe you’ve reduced things too low and have knocked out the calcium balance.

Coriander can be given daily.
Lettuce can also be given daily and can be given to piggies even with IC.
Wiebke has confirmed that IC flares tend to be caused by changes to the diet not by the diet itself, although individual piggies can have issues with certain items.

I’ve linked in your other threads in this post so we can see the background.
Click to expand...
Their wee has been gritty past 2 nights, & the only change is celery every day
 
So it’s now actually gritty, feels a bit like bits of sand when you rub it, not just powder?
 
Mclayton said:
But it dries to a powder
Click to expand...

Then to me it’s probably not gritty pee.

Is every single pee powdery?
As I say, a diet too low in calcium will cause calcium pees as well because the balance is wrong for the piggy.

When a diet is too high in calcium, changes to the diet (ie starting to filter water, reducing pellets and calcium rich veg) take several weeks to have an effect in bringing down calcium levels in the body.
If you gave celery two days ago and then starting seeing actually gritty pee at the same time then I don’t think it is to do with the celery. It wouldn’t happen that instantly.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Then to me it’s probably not gritty pee.

Is every single pee powdery?
As I say, a diet too low in calcium will cause calcium pees as well because the balance is wrong for the piggy.

When a diet is too high in calcium, changes to the diet (ie starting to filter water, reducing pellets and calcium rich veg) take several weeks to have an effect in bringing down calcium levels in the body.
If you gave celery two days ago and then starting seeing actually gritty pee at the same time then I don’t think it is to do with the celery. It wouldn’t happen that instantly.
Click to expand...
It feels gritty when the wee is just done. They have had filtered water, grain free pellets lower calcium veg since late December. All has been fine, really, until past couple of weeks, & last couple of days, gritty wee when wet
 
How long ago was the last x ray/scan?
I can see is that on one of your previous posts which was a month you said the vet confirmed no crystals, stones or infections were present.
All we can suggest is that you speak to the vet again to see is something has changed.

Do your piggies drink well? Keeping the bladder flushing through is important - perhaps try feeding the veg wet to increase water intake
 
Piggies&buns said:
How long ago was the last x ray/scan?
I can see is that on one of your previous posts which was a month you said the vet confirmed no crystals, stones or infections were present.
All we can suggest is that you speak to the vet again to see is something has changed.

Do your piggies drink well? Keeping the bladder flushing through is important - perhaps try feeding the veg wet to increase water intake
Click to expand...
They drink very well, & I do wet the veg. They have cucumber everyday as well. Today, they will have cucumber, pepper, coriander & little gem
 
It sounds like you're doing everything you can and you're in good hands here with @Piggies&buns 😊
Not every pig that does white powdery wees will go on to develop problems... it really is something very common. We try to keep an eye on it but we can't 'cure' something that's part of their biochemistry. Because their teeth are always growing they've evolved to absorb pretty much all the calcium from their gut and excrete the excess out through the pee... quite different to us people with our boring static teeth. If pee does get a lot of calcium a piggy might struggle to pass some of the lumps but that doesn't mean a stone has formed. You're doing all the right things.

Cats with an IC diagnosis apparently benefit a great deal from a daily routine they can rely on... a vet was telling me about IC cats in a cattery where they changed the routine and it triggered flare-ups in a number of cats all at once! I don't know how effective that is for pigs - I do know that George squeaks me awake at pretty much the same time every day for his morning salads! But I expect that will become earlier and earlier as the sun rises 🤣

Speaking of sun we are currently taking old George outside on a fleece under a heatpad for 20 mins each day to have an al fresco brunch. My pigs get fresh grass brought in (which they love) but it's too cold for them to run around and there is only mud out the back right now. But I wanted to get a little sunshine on him to help his vitamin D levels. I don't know how this affects calcium absorption but I know it does affect it somehow. Windows stop the important bit of UV getting through (unless you open them!) We can't really give vit D supplements to pigs. But I wonder whether a bit of outdoor time everyday (keep them warm!) will affect the milkiness of the pee? It might, it might not. But taking a cuppa out for yourself and getting a bit of fresh air with them might help your anxiety too... it helps me to think that I'm trying something. Take care x
 
It is thought that IC is related to stress in piggies. Keeping everything the same including the diet can help.
 
Free Ranger said:
It sounds like you're doing everything you can and you're in good hands here with @Piggies&buns 😊
Not every pig that does white powdery wees will go on to develop problems... it really is something very common. We try to keep an eye on it but we can't 'cure' something that's part of their biochemistry. Because their teeth are always growing they've evolved to absorb pretty much all the calcium from their gut and excrete the excess out through the pee... quite different to us people with our boring static teeth. If pee does get a lot of calcium a piggy might struggle to pass some of the lumps but that doesn't mean a stone has formed. You're doing all the right things.

Cats with an IC diagnosis apparently benefit a great deal from a daily routine they can rely on... a vet was telling me about IC cats in a cattery where they changed the routine and it triggered flare-ups in a number of cats all at once! I don't know how effective that is for pigs - I do know that George squeaks me awake at pretty much the same time every day for his morning salads! But I expect that will become earlier and earlier as the sun rises 🤣

Speaking of sun we are currently taking old George outside on a fleece under a heatpad for 20 mins each day to have an al fresco brunch. My pigs get fresh grass brought in (which they love) but it's too cold for them to run around and there is only mud out the back right now. But I wanted to get a little sunshine on him to help his vitamin D levels. I don't know how this affects calcium absorption but I know it does affect it somehow. Windows stop the important bit of UV getting through (unless you open them!) We can't really give vit D supplements to pigs. But I wonder whether a bit of outdoor time everyday (keep them warm!) will affect the milkiness of the pee? It might, it might not. But taking a cuppa out for yourself and getting a bit of fresh air with them might help your anxiety too... it helps me to think that I'm trying something. Take care x
Click to expand...
I'm just getting really stressed, as everytime he does a really white pee, he squeaks. All I'm going to give him daily now, is cucumber, coriander, little gem,(can't get romaine), pepper. It just upsets me to hear him squeak, but its not every single time
 
I
Piggies&buns said:
It is thought that IC is related to stress in piggies. Keeping everything the same including the diet can help.
Click to expand...
I keep to the same routine, & ftom today, they are just getting cucumber, coriander, little gem or red leaf, & pepper. So, if he does have IC, will this flare up settle then? I hate hear him squeak when weeing, but he's been fine up until this last week or so. He takes cystease too, 1 capsule a day. So does my other piggie as a preventative.
 
Mclayton said:
I
I keep to the same routine, & ftom today, they are just getting cucumber, coriander, little gem or red leaf, & pepper. So, if he does have IC, will this flare up settle then? I hate hear him squeak when weeing, but he's been fine up until this last week or so. He takes cystease too, 1 capsule a day. So does my other piggie as a preventative.
Click to expand...

Flares settle but an IC piggy will also be on pain relief long term which gets increased during a flare and then reduced down when the flare passes.
Flares can be can be caused by changes to the diet, as well as anything else which might stress them.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Flares settle but an IC piggy will also be on pain relief long term which gets increased during a flare and then reduced down when the flare passes.
Flares can be can be caused by changes to the diet, as well as anything else which might stress them.
Click to expand...
Do I need to see a vet again then
 
Mclayton said:
His urine was checked 2 weeks ago. He was clear
Click to expand...

Yes but you said grit is coming out for the last two days so being clear two weeks ago isn’t the same thing

If when urine has dried you can feel grit when you rub the dried patch then that is of concern - that is crystals (which you said your vet has confirmed were not present at the scans a month ago). If it dries powdery then that can be normal without there being any bladder issues
 
Piggies&buns said:
Yes but you said grit is coming out for the last two days so being clear two weeks ago isn’t the same thing

If when urine has dried you can feel grit when you rub the dried patch then that is of concern - that is crystals (which you said your vet has confirmed were not present at the scans a month ago). If it dries powdery then that can be normal without there being any bladder issues
Click to expand...
After it dried, it was powdery. I'm so sorry for stressing
 
Mclayton said:
After it dried, it was powdery. I'm so sorry for stressing
Click to expand...

No it’s ok, we are here to help.

If it’s powdery then it is probably not concerning on its own. Some piggies excrete a lot, some not so much all without there being an issue. If it happens a lot then you look to the diet and see if anything needs changing but also considering that a diet too low in calcium can be just as bad as a diet too high - you can inadvertently cause problems by cutting too much out.
 
Piggies&buns said:
No it’s ok, we are here to help.

If it’s powdery then it is probably not concerning on its own. Some piggies excrete a lot, some not so much all without there being an issue. If it happens a lot then you look to the diet and see if anything needs changing but also considering that a diet too low in calcium can be just as bad as a diet too high - you can inadvertently cause problems by cutting too much out.
Click to expand...
This is their diet 1 tablespoon of grain free pellets, filtered water, natures own 5 a day hay, cucumber, little gem, green pepper, coriander, with added celery past few days. I'm leaving that out. I have 2 piggies, & its not nice hearing them squeak when they do a really white wee. Its not all the time though. Both are a good weight, & maintain it, & both have 3-4 hours floor time each night
 
The diet is fine.
Are you certain they are squeaking when they pee? Are you certain it’s a pained squeak?
Is there any sign of blood at all?

Obviously it’s tricky for us because we aren’t there and can only go by what you tell us including the fact the vet has given them a clean bill of health.
 
Piggies&buns said:
The diet is fine.
Are you certain they are squeaking when they pee? Are you certain it’s a pained squeak?
Is there any sign of blood at all?

Obviously it’s tricky for us because we aren’t there and can only go by what you tell us including the fact the vet has given them a clean bill of health.
Click to expand...
I'm quite certain its when they wee, but not all the time. As a new piggie owner, I've always been unsure whether its a pain squeak or not. No blood at all
 
Piggies&buns said:
The diet is fine.
Are you certain they are squeaking when they pee? Are you certain it’s a pained squeak?
Is there any sign of blood at all?

Obviously it’s tricky for us because we aren’t there and can only go by what you tell us including the fact the vet has given them a clean bill of health.
Click to expand...
The sound is like a quiet wheek
 
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