GP vomit or spitting food

[Andy33335]

Friday morning i found a big spot like the one on the photo on my old man's blanket. I assumed he did some soft poops and then walked in them and flattened them out. All the other poops in his cage were well formed and looked very normal. I found it weird but i did not have an explanation so I cleaned the spot and left him in peace. Severel hours after i cleaned his blanket i heard him making noises and when i looked he was hunching his back and something brown dripping out of his mouth. After that the liquid became green and then transparent. He was salivating very much so i picked him up and rushed him to the emergency.
He was evaluated again, molars checked, vet looked for blockages in his mouth, did not see anything. She suggested i left him overnight to have an xray again.
He was given some medicine to stop him salivating, was hydrated and xray again. Nothing showed up. They said he no longer salivated or made mushy spots during night so i took him home.

He is active, comes when called, chews the bars, cries for veggies but it seems that the interest in hay is diminushed a bit. He drinks water and makes solid, normal poops a lot. But he lost weight and when alone in the cage, he is puffy.

Last night he made the spot in the photo. It does not smell at all and i am 100% is not coming from his bum. Also, i know GP cannot vomit so it's not from his stomach. I am pretty sure it's from his mouth, a mushy soup of hay and pellets.
As you can see, it is all chewed up. He does not have the habbit to play with food. Also, he is not taking food in his mouth and then dropping it. He is eating like normal and after a few hours, when hidden, he is spitting it out.
Has anyone happenes the same with their piggies? What might cause him to spit the food he has leftover in his mouth?

 

[Wiebke]

Friday morning i found a big spot like the one on the photo on my old man's blanket. I assumed he did some soft poops and then walked in them and flattened them out. All the other poops in his cage were well formed and looked very normal. I found it weird but i did not have an explanation so I cleaned the spot and left him in peace. Severel hours after i cleaned his blanket i heard him making noises and when i looked he was hunching his back and something brown dripping out of his mouth. After that the liquid became green and then transparent. He was salivating very much so i picked him up and rushed him to the emergency.
He was evaluated again, molars checked, vet looked for blockages in his mouth, did not see anything. She suggested i left him overnight to have an xray again.
He was given some medicine to stop him salivating, was hydrated and xray again. Nothing showed up. They said he no longer salivated or made mushy spots during night so i took him home.

He is active, comes when called, chews the bars, cries for veggies but it seems that the interest in hay is diminushed a bit. He drinks water and makes solid, normal poops a lot. But he lost weight and when alone in the cage, he is puffy.

Last night he made the spot in the photo. It does not smell at all and i am 100% is not coming from his bum. Also, i know GP cannot vomit so it's not from his stomach. I am pretty sure it's from his mouth, a mushy soup of hay and pellets.
As you can see, it is all chewed up. He does not have the habbit to play with food. Also, he is not taking food in his mouth and then dropping it. He is eating like normal and after a few hours, when hidden, he is spitting it out.
Has anyone happenes the same with their piggies? What might cause him to spit the food he has leftover in his mouth?

Hi
Please be aware that hay makes around 75-80% of the daily food intake and that the poo output is running about 1-2 days behind the intake. It's the weighing that is giving you the up to date feedback of whether your piggy is eating enough now. The problem is that the normal syringe feeding support, which we would usually recommend will come up against the same problem.

Unfortunately, it very much looks like yours is not able to swallow properly for some reason (guinea pigs don't have a vomit reflex so if food is coming back out, it means that is hasn't gone down in the first place).
Salivating means that the constant flow of saliva is no longer able to pass through the digestive system for some reason - either a blockage or because your piggy has lost the ability to swallow; the same like your food. The saliva suppressors just suppress the discomfort but they do not address the real and ongoing problem in the body. Puffing up means that there is a pain issue either in the head or inside body.
Have your vets checked the throat for a swelling/blockage? I've lost a piggy once to a throat infection when the esophagus swelled closed (antibiotics were prescribed too late to kick in) and another one that simply lost the ability to swallow until syringe feed was coming back out straight away.

I am extremely sorry to be bearer of bad news but unless the problem causing the food coming back out of the mouth is found in time and and it is instantly treatable, it generally means the end of the road as time is running out very quickly now: no food passing - for whatever reason - means no fuel to keep your piggy going.

I know that from having lost some of my own piggies in similar ways over the years; it has always been a very distressing experience. One or two have come for food as normal and have been sitting in the hay tray nibbling on hay without actually eating much; by the time they stopped and declined very quickly, it was too late and all I could do was to rush them to the out-of-hours vets for euthanasia. It may have been they'd eaten some fibrours stuff lying around (tissues, cardboard etc) that swelled up and caused a blockage somewhere a bit further down from the mouth. Since it happened within the weekly weigh-in interval, I wasn't able to pick it up in time. I really wish I had better news.

HUGS

 

[Free Ranger]

Hi @Andy33335 - is this your same piggy in the thread Potato not eating for 2 weeks?

I'm just catching up on this. How old is your boy? Does he suffer from impaction at all? This is something about 10% of boys can get in their older years - although my boy started with it when he was 3 1/2. George is neutered too - which is supposed to make it less likely but nobody told George that.

Impaction is where the poop gets stuck in the anal pouch. I'm just wondering about this as I saw the x-rays on the other thread and your poor fellow looked very full of food, which I'm assuming eventually made it's way out the back end with treatment? Impaction, if severe can stop the gut working as usual. They will be less inclines to eat and what they do eat doesn't go through properly. It sounds like your boy is starting to eat but then the urge is leaving him so he ends up with food in his mouth. Either that, or the brown smudge is possibly caecotroph poop that is hanging out of a blocked anus and smeared like toothpaste as he moved about! Sorry to be so graphic.

At a simple (if smelly) level you have cases like George. His anal pouch is baggy and so he gets bunged up. There are two types of poop - the well formed waste poops we generally see and the caecotrophs which is what they eat to re-digest. We don't typically see this poop but it looks like a squishy, fudgy soft dollop. George's problem was that the squishy poop binds the normal poops together into a big plug that bunged up his bottom! When I turn him over you can see a big bulge like he's about to lay an egg - I use warm water to bathe the area then apply a bit of pressure to squeeze out the cork of poop. We used to do this in the evening but now we have to do twice a day because he is nearly 6 and has other problems. It's a bit stinky but no problem - George co-operates and then often eats the prize which alarms my hubs but is natural (unless they are on antibiotics or something - then you don't offer it - he doesn't need a double dose!)

You can get more complicated situations where piggy has eaten something they shouldn't which has blocked the guts. Maybe they are kept on disposable puppy pads and have eaten some - these contain absorbent gel which can swell up and cause serious trouble. There might also be a genetic problem where part of the gut isn't formed quite as it should and is narrower. Or sadly they can sometimes get a growth - whether cancerous or benign it can cause blockages if it gets big enough. These are things I have no personal experience of though.

But check for impaction at the back. Turn him over and cradle him like a baby (support him on a folded towel or fleece as it is an unnatural position) If the anus is closed feel around it for a big bulge or blockage (mind the testicles- he won't be happy!) and if you think he is blocked with poop your going to have to apply a bit of pressure and try to remove that. It's just like squeezing a spot I guess. If he's anything like old George his anus will be open and smeared with squishy caecotroph poop so you might need some warm water and cotton wool to clean up after you unbung!

I hope the problem is this simple. George has to be careful about veggie intake - increasing hay content (dry fibre) and actually giving him something like cardboard to chew on (we have a 'toy' called Carrot Cottage, or a Hay Cube) can actually help a lot in the early stages. If it is just poop impaction and you can keep the back end clear you might find he improves. Lets start there...?

 

[Andy33335]

Hi @Andy33335 - is this your same piggy in the thread Potato not eating for 2 weeks?

I'm just catching up on this. How old is your boy? Does he suffer from impaction at all? This is something about 10% of boys can get in their older years - although my boy started with it when he was 3 1/2. George is neutered too - which is supposed to make it less likely but nobody told George that.

Impaction is where the poop gets stuck in the anal pouch. I'm just wondering about this as I saw the x-rays on the other thread and your poor fellow looked very full of food, which I'm assuming eventually made it's way out the back end with treatment? Impaction, if severe can stop the gut working as usual. They will be less inclines to eat and what they do eat doesn't go through properly. It sounds like your boy is starting to eat but then the urge is leaving him so he ends up with food in his mouth. Either that, or the brown smudge is possibly caecotroph poop that is hanging out of a blocked anus and smeared like toothpaste as he moved about! Sorry to be so graphic.

At a simple (if smelly) level you have cases like George. His anal pouch is baggy and so he gets bunged up. There are two types of poop - the well formed waste poops we generally see and the caecotrophs which is what they eat to re-digest. We don't typically see this poop but it looks like a squishy, fudgy soft dollop. George's problem was that the squishy poop binds the normal poops together into a big plug that bunged up his bottom! When I turn him over you can see a big bulge like he's about to lay an egg - I use warm water to bathe the area then apply a bit of pressure to squeeze out the cork of poop. We used to do this in the evening but now we have to do twice a day because he is nearly 6 and has other problems. It's a bit stinky but no problem - George co-operates and then often eats the prize which alarms my hubs but is natural (unless they are on antibiotics or something - then you don't offer it - he doesn't need a double dose!)

You can get more complicated situations where piggy has eaten something they shouldn't which has blocked the guts. Maybe they are kept on disposable puppy pads and have eaten some - these contain absorbent gel which can swell up and cause serious trouble. There might also be a genetic problem where part of the gut isn't formed quite as it should and is narrower. Or sadly they can sometimes get a growth - whether cancerous or benign it can cause blockages if it gets big enough. These are things I have no personal experience of though.

But check for impaction at the back. Turn him over and cradle him like a baby (support him on a folded towel or fleece as it is an unnatural position) If the anus is closed feel around it for a big bulge or blockage (mind the testicles- he won't be happy!) and if you think he is blocked with poop your going to have to apply a bit of pressure and try to remove that. It's just like squeezing a spot I guess. If he's anything like old George his anus will be open and smeared with squishy caecotroph poop so you might need some warm water and cotton wool to clean up after you unbung!

I hope the problem is this simple. George has to be careful about veggie intake - increasing hay content (dry fibre) and actually giving him something like cardboard to chew on (we have a 'toy' called Carrot Cottage, or a Hay Cube) can actually help a lot in the early stages. If it is just poop impaction and you can keep the back end clear you might find he improves. Lets start there...?

Hello,

No, it is not the same piggy... I lost that one 2 weeks ago
This is another of my boys and he is almost 5 and half yo. To be honest, i have not checked if he was impacted. I mean, i picked him up and look at his willy/bum zone and he wasn't dirty so i assumed no impaction. Also, this brown mush doesn't have any smell at all, so i assumed it did not get throught his intentines. If this is impaction, i will gladly clean him daily than having other more serious problems I also assumed it's not impaction poop because his other poops are numerous and well formed.
What worries me is the episode of him salivating hard and having food coming out of his mouth when i rushed him to the vet. This is why i assumed the mushy spot came out of this mouth also.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello,

No, it is not the same piggy... I lost that one 2 weeks ago
This is another of my boys and he is almost 5 and half yo. To be honest, i have not checked if he was impacted. I mean, i picked him up and look at his willy/bum zone and he wasn't dirty so i assumed no impaction. Also, this brown mush doesn't have any smell at all, so i assumed it did not get throught his intentines. If this is impaction, i will gladly clean him daily than having other more serious problems I also assumed it's not impaction poop because his other poops are numerous and well formed.
What worries me is the episode of him salivating hard and having food coming out of his mouth when i rushed him to the vet. This is why i assumed the mushy spot came out of this mouth also.

The salivation has nothing to do with impaction because impaction does NOT block the gut and it definitely stinks to high heaven.

 

[Andy33335]

I know. I put my boyfriend on guard to keep a close eye on him and he caught him on camera while spitting food. So it's from his mouth. He does this like 2 times/day and then goes back to eating like nothing happened.
I have an appointment tomorrow for another piggie but i will take him instead, i am lost and dunno why that is happening ...

 

[Wiebke]

I know. I put my boyfriend on guard to keep a close eye on him and he caught him on camera while spitting food. So it's from his mouth. He does this like 2 times/day and then goes back to eating like nothing happened.
I have an appointment tomorrow for another piggie but i will take him instead, i am lost and dunno why that is happening ...

It may be a partial blockage? Unfortunately, all we can do is guess as much as you sight unseen.

All the best for tomorrow!

 

[weepweeps]

Good luck tomorrow at the vets.

 

[eileen]

All the best at vets.hugs to you. X

 

[munchmonster]

Hope you get some answers quickly and get you piggy well again x

 

[Julie M]

Hope all goes well at the vets.

 

[Free Ranger]

No, it is not the same piggy... I lost that one 2 weeks ago

Aah - my mistake. I got mixed up because of the x-rays on the other thread. I'm so sorry for the loss of your other boy.
I hope the vet can give you some answers. He has reached a good age due to your care and attention. I hope he has many more happy days x

 

[Andy33335]

We went on Monday to the vet and she could not see anything in his mouth. We are going back tomorrow for an xray of the head.
I watched him closely in the last couple of days and i saw that he never pukes after eating. He eats hay, he is energic, he is vocal, he lost some weight but right now seems he can keep it steady which means he gets food into him.
But then he is doing something else than eating and he starts hunching and spitting chewed food. Sometimes it's a dark brown because of the food, sometimes it's green. After he is done spitting, he goes to eat hay, he is behaving like nothing happened.

 

[Free Ranger]

I cannot imagine what this might be. You are very observant though! I hope the x-ray can get you some answers. Do you think the green colour is from grass or veggies he might have eaten?

 

[Andy33335]

We went back to the vet on Wednesday to have the xray of his head/molars. I asked the vet to look in his mouth while he was knocked out to see if there is any blockage. She decided to do a full inspection of his mouth so he was put under GA. At the end, she sent me photos.
So it seems that his uvula is not looking normal as it should have been pink, not white with forms on it. Vet took a swab and sent to the analysis. Also, on his left side - our right, can be seen a bump on his cheek wall which should not be there. She took some sample from there too and sent to analisys and came back as necrosys. He does not have any blockage in his mouth and nothing showed up at the xray.
Diego had a battle with calcium all his life. 3 years ago he was operated to remove a bladder stone and since then, he continued to have sludge even though i was feeding low calcium veggies.
Our vet talked to another exotic vet and they both believe his uvula and bump in his mouth are calcium accumulated.
Unfortunately necrosys cannot be cured. Now i understand why he is spitting food, he wants to spit that bump probably.
While there is nothing i can do, i will try to offer him all that i can so he can spend the rest of his days happy. He is active, eating by himself and very vocal

 

[Free Ranger]

Wow, I have not heard of anything like this before! I know when people get white spots in the mouth it can be oral thrush (a fungal infection) or a bacterial infection like 'strep throat' or tonsillitis. But then I guess we're not guinea pigs! When will you get back the results from the swab?

There is a lot to be said for helping them live happily in the moment. Some pigs do have more trouble with calcium than others. We changed from muesli to pellets a while back, then we have limited the number of pellets we give and we now use bottled water for the piggies with very low calcium (as we live in an area with very high levels in the tap water). I know a lot of people use water filters and these also remove most of the calcium. To be honest I was most worried about reducing pellets in case there was complaining so we did it bit by bit and I also started to add extra handfuls of hay throughout the day to encourage them to fill up on that. My vet says to try and encourage more drinking to flush everything through. Well that's not easy, but we added more water bottles and also put them right next to the entrances to hiding areas so the pigs could get a drink without coming into the open. Good luck with him, and keep us updated. It's really useful because if anyone else's pig has the same symptoms they can see how things turn out.

 

[Free Ranger]

Hi @Andy33335 is there any more news on your piggy? I hope you are both doing OK x