Going downhill - vet advice

[MeganSambrook]

Hi our Bobby (boar) has recently had ‘tear drop shaped’ poo - only for a day or two so thought we would keep an eye on and thought maybe it was introduction of the new herbs.

Today he has really not been his usual self, quiet in his little house and not coming out or eating as much. I had him on my knee and he had poo around his bum, it looked like he was trying to push a poo out. He wee’d all over me which isn’t like him as he usually makes an effort to jump down. I noticed some poo trying to get out of his bum but couldn’t, so we decided to clean him. We cleared him out and as we did a massive string of soft poo came out - not quite diarrhoea but not formed and sloppy. We cleaned him up and put him down on the floor (their cage is always open to run in and out). He ran straight back into his cage and attacked his cage mate! So we have separated for now (his cage mate is another boar, Bobby is always dominant but not attacked before).

Anyway I have rang the guinea pig vet at matlock (recommended on this forum before and local to us) she is not in until Saturday so has got us in as an urgent appt. I feel we should get him seen sooner as I know how quickly they can go down hill, what does everyone think? Has anybody had experiences like this before? Any more local (Derbyshire) vet recommendations?

Any help much appreciated.. for info Bobby is said to be 10 months old - we have rescued him though so not 100%

Thanks

 

[Piggies&buns]

How has his weight been? Tear drop shaped poops suggest a gut disturbance.
Please switch from weekly weighing and instead weigh him daily while you have health concerns. Losing weight means he hasn’t been eating enough hay.
As you’ve notice he isn’t eating properly, then please step in and syringe feed him from now. You don’t want him to continue to not eat for a moment longer as he needs the fibre for gut function.

Stop giving him veg and instead just feed hay, normal limited amount of pellets (and importantly syringe feed as above).

It might be worth seeing if you can get him seen earlier, urgently If he deteriorates at all

Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

 

[MeganSambrook]

He has lost 60g in three days.. we weighed him when noticing the tear drop pops and just weighed him after seeing your post. We have removed veg and just left the hay and pellets. He is eating his pellets at the moment. Just for reference he is a larger guineapig - he weighed 1318g and has now lost a further 60g which is of course worrying in a short space.

I will look into syringe feeding thank you - we have not done this and do not have supplies but we can go in morning.

I will try and get him in sooner.. just want him to be ok it’s so worrying.

 

[Piggies&buns]

That’s a lot to lose in three days. He hasn’t been eating enough (hay) voluntarily and you need to step in now.
Removing the veg is good. Adding veg on top of an upset tummy makes things worse. He really needs to be eating hay for the fibre.
I’m assuming you have no syringes at all in the house? If you mix his normal pellets with water you can offer then to him from a spoon. He really needs it as he’s not been eating enough for himself.
You need to continue to weigh him daily and adjust syringe feeding accordingly - if he continues to lose then you need to syringe feed more.

This guide will also give further information
Weight - Monitoring and Management

 

[MeganSambrook]

Thank you so much - no we don’t have the syringes and will get some tomorrow. I will try and mush up the pellets for now.

We have just changed their hay, our local pet shop gave us some that looks more straw like, could this be a cause? I’m so worried we have done something wrong without realising.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you so much - no we don’t have the syringes and will get some tomorrow. I will try and mush up the pellets for now.

We have just changed their hay, our local pet shop gave us some that looks more straw like, could this be a cause? I’m so worried we have done something wrong without realising.

Hay is unlikely to be the culprit, and certainly much less likely if it looks browner than normal. Giving a rich hay when they aren’t used to it can sometimes cause it, but it’s more likely to be veg which causes a digestive upset than a change of hay. it’s possible it’s something else, but of course we couldnt say nor even try to guess.

make sure you get plenty of syringes as they are important to hold in a first aid kit . These things always crop up at inconvenient times. Youll need 1ml syringes but you’ll need to cut the tip off (where the syringe narrows at the end) in order to get a recovery feed/mushed pellets through.

 

[Wiebke]

All the best!

@Piggies&buns has already said what I would have said, too.

 

[MeganSambrook]

Hay is unlikely to be the culprit, and certainly much less likely if it looks browner than normal. Giving a rich hay when they aren’t used to it can sometimes cause it, but it’s more likely to be veg which causes a digestive upset than a change of hay. it’s possible it’s something else, but of course we couldnt say nor even try to guess.

make sure you get plenty of syringes as they are important to hold in a first aid kit . These things always crop up at inconvenient times. Youll need 1ml syringes but you’ll need to cut the tip off (where the syringe narrows at the end) in order to get a recovery feed/mushed pellets through.

Thank you so much - we certainly will be putting a first aid kit together tomorrow. Do you think grass is appropriate for him to eat at this time? We usually bring some in and he loves it but won’t bring anything else in if just grass and pellets for now.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you so much - we certainly will be putting a first aid kit together tomorrow. Do you think grass is appropriate for him to eat at this time? We usually bring some in and he loves it but won’t bring anything else in if just grass and pellets for now.

No fresh grass or fresh food at all while his tummy is unsettled. You need to get to the bottom of this episode and wait until he is better before reintroducing fresh grass and veg into his diet again. When you are able to reintroduce veg and grass, it needs to be done very slowly and carefully so as to not cause an issue upon reintroduction

 

[Merab]

I can’t add anything except support.
Hope all goes well at the vet.

 

[MeganSambrook]

That’s a lot to lose in three days. He hasn’t been eating enough (hay) voluntarily and you need to step in now.
Removing the veg is good. Adding veg on top of an upset tummy makes things worse. He really needs to be eating hay for the fibre.
I’m assuming you have no syringes at all in the house? If you mix his normal pellets with water you can offer then to him from a spoon. He really needs it as he’s not been eating enough for himself.
You need to continue to weigh him daily and adjust syringe feeding accordingly - if he continues to lose then you need to syringe feed more.

This guide will also give further information
Weight - Monitoring and Management

Sorry me again! He’s getting hay down him (we have been and bought the preferred previous brand we used) and has had a few pellets, plenty of water. I have started syringe feeding with pellets mashed up, just wanted to ask is the muesli food ok for him to have? We have the dried carrot muesli.. we usually give our pigs a mix of this and pellets and they prefer the muesli so would be nice to give him something he prefers! So sad watching him jump up at his cage when I took Beans his morning veg, but at least he wanted to eat it I guess.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Sorry me again! He’s getting hay down him (we have been and bought the preferred previous brand we used) and has had a few pellets, plenty of water. I have started syringe feeding with pellets mashed up, just wanted to ask is the muesli food ok for him to have? We have the dried carrot muesli.. we usually give our pigs a mix of this and pellets and they prefer the muesli so would be nice to give him something he prefers! So sad watching him jump up at his cage when I took Beans his morning veg, but at least he wanted to eat it I guess.

I'm glad you’ve been able to start syringing and that he is eating hay. Keep up with his weight checks so you know he is getting enough.

Have you been able to get a vet appointment?

Muesli is not recommended to be given to piggies at all. It contains unhealthy, high sugar and other not recommended ingredients. They selective feed if they are given mueslies as they just pick up the most unhealthy but nicest tasting bits. Make sure they get no more than one tablespoon of plain pellets per day - even plain pellets aren’t particularly healthy for them but theh serve a purpose in filling any potential gaps in nutrition but still need to be kept limited (although while you are syringe feeding, that is put aside and getting as much syringe feed - either in the form of mushed pellets or a proper recovery feed (which is to be higher in fibre than mushed pellets) is essential to replace the hay a piggy isn’t eating for themselves)
Pellets Or Muesli / Dry Mix?

 

[MeganSambrook]

Ahh ok thank you. Yes he is in tomorrow, I wanted him to go to a specialised guinea pig vet.. we had said if we really didn’t think he was doing well we would take him today to a different vet but he seems to be eating his hay and drinking so just got to get him through today. He hasn’t seemed to poo much but then has just done some on the towel whilst we were feeding him and they look as thought they’re slightly more formed but still sloppy.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ahh ok thank you. Yes he is in tomorrow, I wanted him to go to a specialised guinea pig vet.. we had said if we really didn’t think he was doing well we would take him today to a different vet but he seems to be eating his hay and drinking so just got to get him through today. He hasn’t seemed to poo much but then has just done some on the towel whilst we were feeding him and they look as thought they’re slightly more formed but still sloppy.

The lack of poops will be down to the lack of food intake which is evident from his sudden weight loss. Poop output is 1-2 days behind so it’ll take a couple days of his food intake returning to normal before his poop output returns. Keeping the guts functioning with the syringe feeding is so important. Fantastic he is eating some hay for himself, but don’t let it fool you into thinking it’s enough - you can’t stop syringe feeding until he is holding his own with his weight through eating enough hay.

Do keep us posted on how things go and what the vet says.

 

[MeganSambrook]

The lack of poops will be down to the lack of food intake which is evident from his sudden weight loss. Poop output is 1-2 days behind so it’ll take a couple days of his food intake returning to normal before his poop output returns. Keeping the guts functioning with the syringe feeding is so important. Fantastic he is eating some hay for himself, but don’t let it fool you into thinking it’s enough - you can’t stop syringe feeding until he is holding his own with his weight through eating enough hay.

Do keep us posted on how things go and what the vet says.

Thanks again for all the help and advice. Just weighed him and he’s had a little gain from yesterday so we are feeling positive

 

[Bill & Ted]

Can you offer him some plain porridge oats, they have a good amount of calories and are great for poorly piggies and easy to eat x

 

[Merab]

Good to hear there’s some improvement.
@Bill & Ted ’s suggestion of plain oats is a good one, or mix them with some grated carrot or sweet potato.
Mine like a bit of banana mashed into their Critical Care when I’ve had to syringe feed. I put a ramekin dish with the CC and banana into the cage to help encourage them to eat for themselves.

 

[MeganSambrook]

Hi all went well at the vets today, he has a lot of gas and some gut disruption. He was actually a lot better this morning, looked brighter already! We have some anti-gas medication, antibiotics and pain killer.

I am worried that as we have had the boys separate they will not get on now, we have just had Bobby out for floor time and him and beans were chattering at each other.. will we have to reintroduce them? Unfortunately we had only had Beans for about a fortnight before Bobby becoming ill and then going for him! He had not attacked him before, just the usual rumbling and humping at first which was settling.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hi all went well at the vets today, he has a lot of gas and some gut disruption. He was actually a lot better this morning, looked brighter already! We have some anti-gas medication, antibiotics and pain killer.

I am worried that as we have had the boys separate they will not get on now, we have just had Bobby out for floor time and him and beans were chattering at each other.. will we have to reintroduce them? Unfortunately we had only had Beans for about a fortnight before Bobby becoming ill and then going for him! He had not attacked him before, just the usual rumbling and humping at first which was settling.

How long have they been separated?
We don’t recommend separating on medical grounds as it can disrupt a bond.
It takes two weeks after they’ve been introduced for them to fully form a relationship, so if you’ve separated them within those first two weeks Post-introduction then that won’t be great in terms it where they are in their relationship, but you can try a neutral territory reintroduction again and see what happens. it’ll be quite clear as to whether they want to be together upon neutral territory rebonding

 

[Wiebke]

Hi all went well at the vets today, he has a lot of gas and some gut disruption. He was actually a lot better this morning, looked brighter already! We have some anti-gas medication, antibiotics and pain killer.

I am worried that as we have had the boys separate they will not get on now, we have just had Bobby out for floor time and him and beans were chattering at each other.. will we have to reintroduce them? Unfortunately we had only had Beans for about a fortnight before Bobby becoming ill and then going for him! He had not attacked him before, just the usual rumbling and humping at first which was settling.

I would wait with re-intro until your boy is back to normal and feeling better in himself if the bonding process has not bee fully finished and would then restart from scratch. Right now, the stress of a reintro could make the bloating worse. Make sure that you weigh your boy daily at the same time so you can keep an eye on the food intake (ca. 80% should be hay, whch you cannot control by eye) and on the bloating; it often comes in waves and it takes some time for the digestive system to stabilise again. The weighing also helps you to judge how much fibrous feeding support he needs.

Please take the time to read our information on bloating care and on formal introductions.
Weight Monitoring and Management
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[MeganSambrook]

How long have they been separated?
We don’t recommend separating on medical grounds as it can disrupt a bond.
It takes two weeks after they’ve been introduced for them to fully form a relationship, so if you’ve separated them within those first two weeks Post-introduction then that won’t be great in terms it where they are in their relationship, but you can try a neutral territory reintroduction again and see what happens. it’ll be quite clear as to whether they want to be together upon neutral territory rebonding

Yes in hindsight we wish we didn’t separate them but at the time we were so worried about Bobby being ill and it making him more stressed we did it. They’re teeth chattering now when they see each other but will wait until he is better to reintroduce. We had only had Beans for a fortnight so yes we will have to start from scratch with the bonding, can we typically get it to work again or is the bond ruined from one fight? Beans was trying to get away from Bobby but was trapped by him, it had not happened before