Gizmo And Rex - Bullying Or Bonding

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RexandGizmo

RexandGizmo

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We have two male guinea pigs Rex and Gizmo, who we adopted from pets at home almost 3 weeks ago.

At first we kept them in a standard pet shop cage whilst we ordered materials to build them a custom cage which was completed today sufficiently to put them in, and we transferred them there.

When we first got them, Rex had a scab on his back and a cut on his ear, and they did have a bit of a face off, which we thought might have just been because of the small cage they were in at the shop for 2 months prior to us getting them (this was still in the shop). The manager assured us that this was normal, but owing to the cut to Rex's ear to keep an eye on them maybe.

After this they have interacted in a mostly normal manner in the standard cage for almost 3 weeks, although at times they have bickered and Rex tended to spend a lot of time in one corner, we have been careful to ensure that everything we give them has two exits in case of bullying. Today we put them in to the new custom cage at about 6 or 7pm. All was well and we gave them veggies and fruit. Gizmo did laps of the 15sq ft cage (3 times the size of pet shop cage) and Rex sat eating hay. They seemed okay and Gizmo was sound asleep at one point.

Then at 2am we went in because we heard charging round the place and squeaking and found Gizmo trying to chase and mount Rex, digging his claws in to Rex to hold him while he humped him, not just normal mounting we have previously observed, he was properly going for it. Rex was very stressed and kept running from Gizmo. We had them independently checked over by a vet recommended by this site last week and they were both definitely male, (The vet checked their testicles). We don't know their age but it was informed to us to be somewhere 7 months and a year.

We've now separated them with the cage from the old pet cage which we also used part of to build the new one because I was worried that some harm would come to Rex and I didn't have all night to sit watching them to ensure they were okay.

Is this normal dominance behaviour, is it bullying, and what would people recommend we do. I'm wary of leaving them to interact as I don't want Rex to end up with more cuts to his ears or worse whilst we are at work and not able to intervene.

As I say it's only today now they have this new cage. I'm wondering if anyone has had similar experiences and how they dealt with it.

Any and all advice appreciated.

We could do with sorting it out as soon as possible.

Thanks

For pictures of the new cage see here: https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/corex-with-wooden-surrounds.122497/#post-1667017
 
Oh and I should mention neither of them are neutered, I know most people say this doesn't affect anything anyway, but just in case someone should feel it relevant to ask the question.
 
Boars always need to re-establish their hierarchy in any new territory, which includes moving to a new cage or moving the existing cage to a new location. you are bound to see a lot of dominance behaviour, but as long as it is not escalating into to full fights, you have to sit by and grit your teeth. Hopefully, they will settle back down together after a few days.

As you have separated, I would recommend to start intros on neutral ground before moving them to the new cage again (with all hideys removed). If necessary, rub the fleece, so everything is smelling of both boys.
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/dominance-behaviours-in-guinea-pigs.28949/
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/introducing-and-re-introducing-guinea-pigs.38562/
 
As it stands they are still both in the same cage, but they are separated by a cage, so they both been sniffing each other a bit through it, it's not a full barrier if you like. Could we simply remove that and see how they interact together without the need to take them out on to neutral ground?
 
Also, I'm concerned that if it happens again it is really stressing out Rex who is such a cute adorable thing, and I hate to see him squeeking and crying out whilst Gizmo digs his claws into him and holds him there while he humps him.

If that does start happening again how long would you suggest I allow it to go on for before intervening because it really is painful to watch! And as I said, Gizmo has previously taken a nip out of his ear! I'm trying to upload a further picture but my computer at work is naff and won't let me do half the stuff I need to.
 
I hasten to add that the nip in Rex's ear occurred whilst they were awaiting adoption at the pet shop and they haven't shown any major aggression towards each other over the last 3 weeks since we got them, just little bits of dominance strutting.

Nothing along the lines of what we saw last night, Rex was terrified, and I was terrified for him, it went beyond dominance in my opinion.
 
I am currently bonding two young boars, they have just spent their first full day together( previously introduced over gradually increasing periods of time) in a large C&C cage. It is far more nerve wracking for human observers! Mine are not doing too much humping(thank goodness), but lots and lots of chasing about and rumbling going on. Then they calm down and ignore each other for a while, but I am still on edge the whole time. You could try the old trick of adding a soft toy to the cage for Gizmo to hump instead of Rex? Wiebke is one of the most experienced forum member on bonding issues. I am hoping, if my two lads don't escalate things, to leave mine together overnight. Good luck with your boys.
 
Thanks AuntyC and Wiebke, I've heard of people on here refer to Wiebke before so their reputation preceeds them :) I'm sorry I've been a little bit skittish, which probably hasn't earned me much credit in these parts, I'm just new to this and while my other half is a bit more experienced with piggins, I'm less so, so tend to freak out more, especially if they appear to be in distress or pain. Apologies. Anyway hopefully now we can attempt to get them back in one open pen together after some playtime exploring the room and see what happens.

I'm going to wait until Becky gets home as she isn't in work tomorrow so she can spend more time with them during the day or overnight if necessary. Hopefully all will be well and it was just a new place new experiences thing.
 
My newly bonded pair are settling really well and getting used to each other's company. One adores romping about, the other sits and watches him( he seems shocked that running about is going on, he is quite lazy!) . I am providing lots of extra hay, in all parts of the pen so no arguments over it and no boredom sets in. Had each of them out for knee time with a friend of mine this morning and they behaved like angels. Hope your two are getting on better now.
 
Well things are mixed. They got on pretty well when we reintegrated their cage to allow them to interact again. They will eat out of the same veg bowl both climbed up on Becky's lap for strokes and feeding.

Tonight we cleaned their cage and id half done with the wood shavings when gizmo started chasing Rex and trying to mount him again for a while

We put the towels back in as well so they still had their own smells and stuff.

So an hour later and after a bit if calm,Gizmo starts chasing Rex again and trying to hump him again.

Rex sits on top of one of the cabins for a while before it starts again when he comes down.

Becky also mentioned that they never seem to snuggle like others peoples piggins do, a lot of the time when they come near each other it's sometimes icy and sometimes angry but rarely if ever friendly.

What do people recommend at this stage? Is there anything we can do or does it just have to run its course? I can post a video if that would help with context although its short

Thanks
 
Not an expert at all so I can't really help, but I will say that I have two boars and the only time they will ever snuggle is if they're cold. So I wouldn't worry about that in particular, not all pigs like to snuggle with their cage mates.

Poor Rex!
 
AuntyC said:
You could try the old trick of adding a soft toy to the cage for Gizmo to hump instead of Rex?
Click to expand...

We added the toy... Instead of seeing it as something to hump, gizmo took to it differently. Occasionally grooming it's ears and lying next to it.
 
RexandGizmo said:
We added the toy... Instead of seeing it as something to hump, gizmo took to it differently. Occasionally grooming it's ears and lying next to it.
Click to expand...
Oh bless him! Sorry if I confused you Gizmo. Sounds like things are still quite lively with your two. Might be worth posting your video for the bonding experts to see.
 
Our boys seem to be getting more grumpy with each other.
No more humping but a lot lot more chittering and squeaking with a few snorts occasional thrown in for good measure. Wierd thing is its Rex that starts it most of the time. Just at the pure sight of gizmo, not matter what gizmo is doing if he comes too near him or goes past him he starts squeaking and chittering.
It's difficult to tell whose winning or what's going on because a lot of the time they are both chittering and squeaking at the same time.
The thing that's worrying me tho is that they both have started jumping at/for each other more frequently :/
There's no obvious wounds and everyone is still eating and drinking but it seems tense and stressful.
How easy would it be to spot blood or fight wounds on a dark guinea pig?

They are estimated between 8-12 months old and had a few ear nicks when we got them. (had them just over a month)
So their hormones maybe turning them or they were never meant to be :(

Thinking about preparing for the last resort of a bonding bath, we've read that might help, but it would be tricky as they don't like being picked up yet.

Ps. There is 2 of everything and plenty of floor time allowed.
 
Want to help them but obviously don't want to interrupt domaince deciding. But need to know when enoughs enough and to split, and to be able to spot injures in need of splitting from when we're not there
 
Have you thought about buying some C&C cages to split it evenly down the middle? Sometimes males just don't get on and have to be kept together but split by something in the middle (but you probably have read that already)
I've not had boars before only two girls so I cant really help anymore than that! I hope it all gets sorted out for you though. Your cage is amazing!
 
Yea we've got a piece of cage ready for in case the worst happens and they need to be separate.
But obviously it would be sad to have to do this.
We just want the best for them, but we're not experts or experienced with this.
And right now I'm not sure whether that's wait a few more days and see if it calms down or should we be dividing the cage and having two separate piggies.
I'm mostly worried something will happen when we are not there and that we won't be able to spot the signs, especially on rex the dark brown one.
Was looking for some advice, or tips, what we should be doing from here, or even some words to help calm us humans.

.... worried piggie owner....
 
Sounds like they may just not get along:( Humping and chasing is usual, but I have 2 very dominant males that I have tried to bond with my boys all at diffrerent times , in the right way, etc and it just hasn't worked:( Taz I got neutered and he lives with females, and Alvin who is only 4 months is on his own atm. However he is the happiest little chap and just doesn't get on with the other boys(including his brothers!) It is all ok until they draw blood, as it will go into a full fight:( Your piggies may calm down,, but if things are gradually getting worse, I think it may be a personality clash.
Really hope it works out, they may just need time.
 
:(
It is a sad thought to keep them alone, but if that might be how they'll be happiest. It's a tough decision. We wouldn't be able to afford keeping 4 pigs I don't think so couldn't even let them choose different friends.

Would we be able to easily tell if there's been a fight?
I'm worried if it happens when we're out and we wouldn't know that they'd need splitting :(

As far as we know they've been together awhile, we were told last owners said they'd got too big.
 
I feel for you. It's a really scary time, especially if you've no idea what to expect - all the thread-reading and advice in the world can't prepare you for the reality of it, and it's so hard to know when to draw the line and separate.

I've only experienced this situation once (last year, and sadly it didn't work out) but I promise you you'll know if they fight so badly you need to separate them. As the threads say, you absolutely MUST protect yourself before physically separating them because piggie teeth are SHARP. If blood is drawn you'll spot that it has happened (even on a dark piggie) if you weren't there to see it.

I'm not an experienced piggie keeper (yet... although I intend to be!) so this is just my best advice. There are some brilliant people on this forum and I couldn't have got through the rough times last year without them. I was also lucky to have a very supportive Rescue owner who I was able to phone at critical moments - if you've got a friendly one that knows you, that might be an additional option in an urgent situation.

Good luck!
 
Sadly my fears came true :( *sigh*

Came home to this sad little face:
WP_20150121_004.webp WP_20150121_006.webp WP_20150121_007.webp
Poor gizmo :(

Thinking a vet check for both to be safe... You reckon so?

So we've got this setup for now:
WP_20150121_002.webp
Will source materials to improve it over weekend. Each Piggie must have the bestest house they can :)
 
Sorry the pictures aren't great, phone cameras and constant moving guinea pig don't mix well. :P
 
Any tips on how we can make life more fun and lovely for them both now they're split down the middle....?
 
Deleted my post because I didn't see the second page when I posted it, d'oh.

Poor Gizmo :(

Having lots of toys and things will help occupy them, and lots of interaction with you when possible.
 
lucky he came running out for veg this morning with a 'what you got for me' look on his face
 
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