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Funny noise?

DougalandDiego

DougalandDiego

Teenage Guinea Pig
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Hi everyone,

My guinea pigs are definitely going through the wars at the minute! :doh:

This time it’s Diego, a month or so ago I noticed him making a strange noise every now and then and I think it was possibly when he is peeing/pooping (I still think it is when he is doing one of them). I took a urine sample to the vets when I took Dougal for his operation which came back completely clear.

Whilst syringe feeding Dougal after his op and spending a lot of time in the pigs room I noticed that he was still making the noise and took him back to the vets for a check and checked another urine sample which was again completely clear. The vet (who is a guinea pig specialist) thought his bottom was a bit swollen so gave him some anti-inflammatory. He then developed the start of a URI so was put on a course of antibiotics for two weeks and some anti-inflammatory which he finished a few days ago. His chest sounds clear now but he is still making a strange noise when he’s in his house. He stands still when he makes it which makes me think it must be when he’s going to the toilet.

I should add that he doesn’t have any blood in his urine and he drinks well. I’m worried it could be bladder stones but wondered if anyone else had a similar situation?
I’m happy to book him into the vets again but he is such a nervous pig I wanted to check that the noise he is making is him being in pain and not just chatting/talking and I’m being a paranoid piggy mum!

I have attached a video of the noise he makes.
Thanks everyone x
 
Is anyone able to confirm if the noise he’s making is him in pain or not by any chance please? 🙏

I can ring the vets tomorrow and book him in but he seems happy in himself other than the noise and is eating/drinking fine so I’m hesitant to put him through the stress of the vet visit if I’m mis-interpreting the noise!
 
I think your thread probably got lost in the sea of posts, someone would’ve definitely replied by now!

It definitely sounds like pain when peeing or pooing. I had a piggy with interstitial cystitis and he would do the same thing, even down to how he looks like he’s stood.
When he makes the noise, is he leaving anything behind? Any calcium deposits? Is there a actually a wee there when he finally stops squeaking? Is there any poos there?
My guess would be bladder related. I’d have an ultrasound and/or X-ray to check for stones. My boy also had a bladder flush. Once you rule out stones, build up of calcium etc then the final prognosis would be interstitial cystitis. That would be my guess anyway, symptoms can be managed with metacam for any pain and also cystease if it’s IC.
But I’d definitely investigate it!
 
Thank you yes I think I will ring the vets tomorrow and I can at least show her the video so I don’t look like a mad woman! 😂 I was thinking it could be something like cystitis as the vet suspected a mild case of cystitis a few months ago. Poor little chap he’s definitely been through the wars!

Thanks for the advice @Little Ones x
 
I am sorry your post has been missed.

I would have a chat with the vet about this also. It’s great you’ve got a video so you can show the vet what is happening.
Let us know how you get on.
 
Also he’s not leaving anything behind that I’m noticing - difficult to tell as he has a number of poops in his house! His poops look normal too
 
DougalandDiego said:
Also he’s not leaving anything behind that I’m noticing - difficult to tell as he has a number of poops in his house! His poops look normal too
Click to expand...
The vet will probably ask what’s happening during this noise, so if you could check if there’s been a wee done afterwards then that’d be more helpful for the vet. It might be beneficial to remove his hideys until he squeaks again, that way you can detect if he’s actually peeing or trying to pee during this as you have easy access to the spot he was sat.
When my piggy would have a squeaky wee, it would come out really slowly like a drip at a time. The times where he didn’t squeak, his pee came out at a normal pace - it was really odd.
 
Yeah thank you he’s booked in tomorrow so will update you all after his trip. She hasn’t asked for a urine sample as I only spoke to the receptionist but I’ll take one anyway just incase. I will be able to see when I get the sample if he always squeaks when he wees (which he hasn’t done when I’ve got urine samples before) but might be because he’s scared of being in a washing basket! 😂
 
I can’t speak for cases involving stones, but if it is interstitial cystitis, keep in mind that he won’t squeak every time he wees. Sometimes he will, sometimes he won’t. Then he might go a week without squeaking, then have squeaky wees consistently for 3 days. It can be quite random! The main thing is keeping a close eye on him, and seeing what’s left behind after he squeaks. I’d be tempted to have an X-ray regardless if there’s wee or not, though.
 
I would have an xray done, if there is no stone it will at least put your mind at rest. When Rusty and Bracken had stones they squeaked/made unhappy noise when pooping rather than weeing. They also made a little grunt when the poop came out.
My fingers are crossed for Diego that there's nothing wrong and he's just doing it because he doesn't like you looking at him when he's having a private moment!
 
Thanks for the great advice and support everyone :luv: yes I was thinking about asking for an X-ray too. Do you think they’d be able to do a conscious one?
 
I’m also trying the IC diet that I’ve seen on the forum to see if that helps him. I’ve also noticed that he’s cleaning himself more than Dougal so could be a sign hes a bit uncomfortable down there... poor chap!
 
Some places offer a conscious X-ray. However conscious X-rays aren’t great for seeing bladder stones. Some vets will think they show just as much as an unconscious X-ray however Simon Maddock of The Cat and Rabbit Clinic in Northampton(the best piggy vet in the UK, dare I say the whole world) states that when looking at the bladder such as for any stones, only a X-ray under anaesthesia will accurately show them as he says the position has to be so precise and accurate otherwise it’ll show completely clear even if it’s not. He stated to us that a conscious X-ray would be pointless and a waste of money (we were also looking for bladder stones). You could have one to see if there’s something more urgent, for example in the stomach (which I doubt) just to be sure but I’d book for an X-ray under anaesthesia
 
My little man has had a thorough check and full urine sample test. My vet (who I trust and is very piggy savvy and is a specialist) doesn’t think it’s a bladder stone but thinks he could have cystitis. We are trying him on a months course of cystease and metacam and seeing how he goes. She said then if he’s not responding we can look at doing more tests and possibly trying a course of injections called cartrophen. He hasn’t lost any weight and doesn’t have any blood or crystals in his urine but hoping that the cystease and metacam help. After two weeks the cystease shoukd start to work and were slowly going to drop the dose of metacam. She doesn’t think he needs an X-ray yet as he’s a very nervous pig and doesn’t have the best heart (he has a dynamic murmur) so doesn’t want to put him under too much stress unless we have to.

Thanks for your help and advice everyone - felt very prepared and asked lots of questions which was great 😊
 
I’m glad it’s not a stone.
hopefully the cyst ease and metacam will help.
if you havent already, have a look at the feeding guides as there is a section of how to adjust the diet for bladder piggies
Perhaps look at the pellets your giving - maybe change brand, perhaps only give pellets a few times a week etc and see if it makes a difference
 
Thanks @Piggies&buns he doesn’t have hardly any pellets (maybe three) and I buy him the grain free selective science ones I think they’re called but have completely cut them out of his diet as of two days ago and have been following the IC diet I found on the forum of spring green, pepper, cucumber, green bean , celery and coriander. Is it right that lettuce should be cut out?
 
DougalandDiego said:
Thanks @Piggies&buns he doesn’t have hardly any pellets (maybe three) and I buy him the grain free selective science ones I think they’re called but have completely cut them out of his diet as of two days ago and have been following the IC diet I found on the forum of spring green, pepper, cucumber, green bean , celery and coriander. Is it right that lettuce should be cut out?
Click to expand...

thats great. yes the guide says to cut out lettuce. See how things go for him and keep us posted
 
That’s good news.
We gave our boy with interstitial cystitis unlimited porridge oats instead of pellets. We would give him some pellets only occasionally, at least once every two weeks, sometimes once a week.
Definitely cut out celery! Celery has been known to give piggies bladder issues and cystitis. I once had my own thread for IC and I was strongly advised from some members to stay away from the celery!
 
Oh that’s good to know @Little Ones . Did you replace it with anything? Already feel a bit limited as to what I can give the poor boy. I’d be down to spring greens, cucumber, pepper, coriander and green beans which doesn’t seem much when he can’t have anything changed/rotated for something different! He isn’t keen on porridge oats but I’ll put them in a little dish in his cage incase he changes his mind. I’m giving him half of an oxbow urinary biscuit instead of his pellets in the morning so he doesn’t seem to mind too much yet! 🤣
 
@Wiebke I hope you don’t mind me tagging you ( I know you’re an extremely busy lady) but I was wondering what you suggested/thought was bet in terms of diet for an IC/bladder pig?

I’ve seen on some parts of the forum that you should cut out lettuce for IC/bladder piggies (on the balanced diet thread) but then on posts I’ve seen some of the more experienced forum members recommend keeping lettuce in their diet. Also what is your view on cutting out the celery? Sorry for the millions of questions! Want to do what’s best for my little man x
 
DougalandDiego said:
@Wiebke I hope you don’t mind me tagging you ( I know you’re an extremely busy lady) but I was wondering what you suggested/thought was bet in terms of diet for an IC/bladder pig?

I’ve seen on some parts of the forum that you should cut out lettuce for IC/bladder piggies (on the balanced diet thread) but then on posts I’ve seen some of the more experienced forum members recommend keeping lettuce in their diet. Also what is your view on cutting out the celery? Sorry for the millions of questions! Want to do what’s best for my little man x
Click to expand...

In my own experience with another IC piggy for two years now (which tallies with feedback from some other forum members) the problem seems to not so much lie with the veg you are feeding (barring any high sugar/fat veg like carrots or sweetcorn, which are simply not good nor is too much veg high in calcium) but more with the fact that changes to a regular diet can in some cases trigger a flare - like fresh grass or lettuce not being a problem when fed regularly but it can be one if you put an IC piggy on the lawn without preparation or if you suddenly start feed lettuce. Mine are eating a little celery without mishap on a regular basis. It is a bit higher in calcium than cucumber.

I would recommend to stick to your regular diet as far as possible without too many changes unless you are cutting out veg that is too high in calcium or that should not be part of a regular diet; introduce any new veg or herbs slowly, starting with small quantities.
Going too low in calcium is not good either, but filtering the water and only feeding 1 tablespoon of pellets per piggy per day cuts out the largest contributors of calcium in the diet. However, since conditions vary from location to location there is no one size fits all diet. You have to fiddle until things work for you.

The really crucial point in managing IC is the glucosamine; it is obviously the natural glucosamine coating of the walls of the urinary tract that prevents the corrosive urine from coming into contact with raw tissue that is affected. In mild cases, a glucosamine based bladder food supplement for cats in capsule form is most convenient to give as you do not have to compute dosages - mix the powder from 1 capsule with 2 ml of water and give either 1 ml about every 12 hours (twice daily) or give the 2 ml once daily. You can actually go up to 2 capsules a day in a flare; I have tried that with mine and it has brought down the flare quicker than when upping the metacam. The UK brand is Feliway cystease capsules; cystophan is another UK brand doing the same. Cats are the other species with sterile cystitis (FSC) and cavy treatment is coming increasingly more in alignment with better researched cat treatment. However, plain tablets from the supermarket will do - but you have to compute the dosages.
In severe cases there is newly cartrofen (via injections) as an - unlicensed - but obviously very effective treatment that is currently being trialled in practice by UK vets following recent research abroad. Cartrofen is a high glucosamine based arthritis drug.

I hope that this helps you? When you are in the piggy world, things are always in flux. Our advice today may outdated some months down the line...

Here is the link to the diet recommendations with piggies with urinary tract infections: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

But
 
That’s great thanks @Wiebke - I usually feed him the normal balanced diet recommended on the forum but I’ve just cut lettuce out the last couple of days (when I thought it was probably IC) before we had our appointment with the vet.
That’s great to know he can still have a small amount of lettuce if he’s been having that up until now. I will see how he goes with it and if I notice his symptoms (which are very mild compared to cases on the forum he just does a small squeak - there’s no blood etc.) get worse when I still give lettuce I will know to cut it out.

Thanks for the advice about the celery. He’s a very nervous pig so I wonder whether his IC is more down to stress/nervousness than his diet as I rarely change their daily veg and very rarely give them anything sweet/sugary and don’t give them many pellets - could that be possible?

I have been giving him 1 capsule of cystease in 2ml of water in one sitting. Since doing more research tonight on the forum I’m concerned that I’ve been giving him too much liquid in one go? Is 2ml of liquid ok to give in one sitting? I only ever do it in 3-5ml mouthfuls but he seems to be swallowing very quickly and it’s easier to administer the cystease in one go in the evening as I leave for work early in the morning and it’s always a bit of a rush!

Yes my vet has mentioned the cartrophen drug to try if the symptoms don’t improve and we obviously do an X-ray/ultrasound beforehand to rule anything else out. I’ve heard it can be very effective so good to hear that’s another option!

Sorry for the waffling. It’s so helpful to speak to other members with experiences of it so want to know as much as possible to help Diego!
 
DougalandDiego said:
That’s great thanks @Wiebke - I usually feed him the normal balanced diet recommended on the forum but I’ve just cut lettuce out the last couple of days (when I thought it was probably IC) before we had our appointment with the vet.
That’s great to know he can still have a small amount of lettuce if he’s been having that up until now. I will see how he goes with it and if I notice his symptoms (which are very mild compared to cases on the forum he just does a small squeak - there’s no blood etc.) get worse when I still give lettuce I will know to cut it out.

Thanks for the advice about the celery. He’s a very nervous pig so I wonder whether his IC is more down to stress/nervousness than his diet as I rarely change their daily veg and very rarely give them anything sweet/sugary and don’t give them many pellets - could that be possible?

I have been giving him 1 capsule of cystease in 2ml of water in one sitting. Since doing more research tonight on the forum I’m concerned that I’ve been giving him too much liquid in one go? Is 2ml of liquid ok to give in one sitting? I only ever do it in 3-5ml mouthfuls but he seems to be swallowing very quickly and it’s easier to administer the cystease in one go in the evening as I leave for work early in the morning and it’s always a bit of a rush!

Yes my vet has mentioned the cartrophen drug to try if the symptoms don’t improve and we obviously do an X-ray/ultrasound beforehand to rule anything else out. I’ve heard it can be very effective so good to hear that’s another option!

Sorry for the waffling. It’s so helpful to speak to other members with experiences of it so want to know as much as possible to help Diego!
Click to expand...

He can still have a normal amount of lettuce. Food is not the cause of IC; it is just that sudden changes can sometimes (by far not always) trigger a flare-up. Some piggies seem to be more sensitive than others.

Speaking with an experienced vet and comparing my own experiences with IC piggies, it is rather the case that skittish piggies which live permanently with a high stress level as their default normal (something which they experience while still in the womb) seem to be more prone to sterile IC than others.
I my own experience, IC is transmittable, but piggies with a strong immune system will get over it on their own without ever displaying symptoms. Some may just have a little flare when they have a stressful experience and some have the full IC with all the trimmings... It is a relatively new phenomenon - 10 years vets were just starting to complain that some strains of UTI would not react to antibiotics well or at all. We are still learning re. best treatment, trying out recommendations, seeing how they work out and then moving on from that.

All the best! You can always only try your best in any given moment of time. But that is all that is expected of you as a good owner.
 
DougalandDiego said:
That’s great thanks @Wiebke - I usually feed him the normal balanced diet recommended on the forum but I’ve just cut lettuce out the last couple of days (when I thought it was probably IC) before we had our appointment with the vet.
That’s great to know he can still have a small amount of lettuce if he’s been having that up until now. I will see how he goes with it and if I notice his symptoms (which are very mild compared to cases on the forum he just does a small squeak - there’s no blood etc.) get worse when I still give lettuce I will know to cut it out.

Thanks for the advice about the celery. He’s a very nervous pig so I wonder whether his IC is more down to stress/nervousness than his diet as I rarely change their daily veg and very rarely give them anything sweet/sugary and don’t give them many pellets - could that be possible?

I have been giving him 1 capsule of cystease in 2ml of water in one sitting. Since doing more research tonight on the forum I’m concerned that I’ve been giving him too much liquid in one go? Is 2ml of liquid ok to give in one sitting? I only ever do it in 3-5ml mouthfuls but he seems to be swallowing very quickly and it’s easier to administer the cystease in one go in the evening as I leave for work early in the morning and it’s always a bit of a rush!

Yes my vet has mentioned the cartrophen drug to try if the symptoms don’t improve and we obviously do an X-ray/ultrasound beforehand to rule anything else out. I’ve heard it can be very effective so good to hear that’s another option!

Sorry for the waffling. It’s so helpful to speak to other members with experiences of it so want to know as much as possible to help Diego!
Click to expand...

You can give a syringe full in one go if your piggy is actively drinking from it. The mouthful applies to when a piggy is entirely off its food and it is just sitting in the mouth before it starts swallowing.
 
That’s great thanks so much for all of the advice @Wiebke thats made it so much clearer for me to understand. So definitely ok for me to give him 2ml of the cystease/water in one go in the evening and that isn’t too much for him? He doesn’t enjoy the mixture but is a very well behaved boy and takes it with little fuss!
 
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