Frantic piggy

[Tracy321]

I have an approximately 8 year old male piggy. Just over two weeks ago he had some dental work done- back teeth burred and a loose bottom incisor removed. He was originally on chlorpalm and metacam. We've been syinge feeding critical care since then.

After a few days he still wasn't eating so we brought him in for a recheck and the vet said that the incisor location had dehisced. She flushed it out and we continued with the chlorpalm for a few more days. We also started him on some cisapride, which helped but only for the few days he was on it.

He still wasn't eating much on his own and barely pooping after nearly a week so we brought him back. The vet felt what she thought could be an abscess or a lymph node so gave an injection of penicillin, cleaning the site afterwards. She also suggested increasing the interval between syringe feeds to every 8 hours to see if that would encourage him to try to eat more on his own. The next day his stomach was gurgling an exceptional amount and still had small, infrequent poops.. His abdomen wasnt hard though and he allowed me to poke at him. He seemed a bit uncomfortable but not in a lot of distress as he was still alert, moving around, and rumbling at his brother in the adjacent cage. I calked and asked the vet if we could give more cisapride and metacam and they said that's fine. It seemed to help a bit and his stomach was less rumbly. The following day (yesterday) I gave another dose of both and also increased the syringe feeds back to every 4-6 hours. This morning he seemed nearly back to normal. Poops normal sized and, while not back to a normal amount, substantially improved. I also didn't notice more gurgling. He was even showing much more interest in eating hay.

All good until he suddenly became frantic this evening. I've never seen him like that. Running around and crazily biting the cage bars. He wouldn't settle after picking him up and putting him in his cuddle sack, which he normally loves. We set up another cage away from his brother as he kept trying to attack him through the bars. I gave another dose of metacam and cisapride in case it was an abdomen pain response. He hadn't pooped a lot this evening but since he had a good pooping day, I wasnt super concerned about it. I don't know how great it is to keep giving cisapride but I didn't know what else to try. He's definitely calmed down quite a bit since meds were given but is still agitated and chattering his teeth.

He has a vet appointment already booked for tomorrow for a recheck. I'm just really concerned about how he'll do until then so any suggestions as to what could be going on are appreciated. Or what to check for tomorrow.

 

[Tracy321]

Timeline clarification: penicillin injection was Saturday afternoon. It's now Wednesday evening here.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Is he still on painkillers?
Does he normally live in the same cage as your other piggy?
Have you been weighing him daily so you can be sure he is getting enough food? Poop output is unreliable as it runs 1-2 days behind food intake.
Keep up with any syringe feeding as necessary and until he is eating enough hay on his own to keep his weight stable at each daily check.
Did the vet say why she gave penicillin and not another a different antibiotic (baytril is one of the most common ones to be given)? Penicillin should not be given to piggies

 

[Piggies&buns]

Sorry just realised you said injection which obviously doesn’t go near the digestive system. Penicillin should never be given orally. Penicillin should still only be given to guinea pigs if absolutely essential and as a last resort and there are plenty of other antibiotics which the vet could have given first

 

[Tracy321]

He doesn't live in the same cage. They are adjacent and share a cage wall. And get supervised play time. He's historically been too aggressive with other pigs to share a cage (we were his 4th home because he kept being surrendered as a result) but he and his brother normally get along reasonably well. A bit of rumbling and humping but then they'll settle and have snacks together.

Still on metacam as needed, which has generally meant a half dose daily. We haven't been weighing him evrry day but at his last recheck on Saturday his weight was actually up a bit (60 grams I think) from the previous appointment.

She didn't say why penicillin but she assured me that it was safe when given as an injection.

 

[Tracy321]

Sorry just realised you said injection which obviously doesn’t go near the digestive system. Penicillin should never be given orally. Penicillin should still only be given to guinea pigs if absolutely essential and as a last resort and there are plenty of other antibiotics which the vet could have

Yeah, I'm not sure why penicillin. Do you think this could be related? I was worried about enterotoxemia even though it was an injection and should be finr but there was no diarrhea or lethargy.

 

[Piggies&buns]

He doesn't live in the same cage. They are adjacent and share a cage wall. And get supervised play time. He's historically been too aggressive with other pigs to share a cage (we were his 4th home because he kept being surrendered as a result) but he and his brother normally get along reasonably well. A bit of rumbling and humping but then they'll settle and have snacks together.

Still on metacam as needed, which has generally meant a half dose daily. We haven't been weighing him evrry day but at his last recheck on Saturday his weight was actually up a bit (60 grams I think) from the previous appointment.

She didn't say why penicillin but she assured me that it was safe when given as an injection.

I wondered if you had separated them when he became unwell and he now didn’t like being separated, but I’d they have never lived together then it probably won’t be that

Although piggies who cannot share a cage should not have playtime together. To them these kind of play dates cause stress as to them it is a full bonding session which never gets seen through to conclusion. This is why you see the dominance behaviours each time - they try to establish a relationship.
Have you ever tried properly bonding them?

I can only think, after any medical angle, that his behaviour at the bars is territorial (behaviours at the bars are often territory marking) or distress/frustration

 

[Tracy321]

Sorry just realised you said injection which obviously doesn’t go near the digestive system. Penicillin should never be given orally. Penicillin should still only be given to guinea pigs if absolutely essential and as a last resort and there are plenty of other antibiotics which the vet could have given first

I wondered if you had separated them when he became unwell and he now didn’t like being separated, but I’d they have never lived together then it probably won’t be that

Although piggies who cannot share a cage should not have playtime together. To them these kind of play dates cause stress as to them it is a full bonding session which never gets seen through to conclusion. This is why you see the dominance behaviours each time - they try to establish a relationship.
Have you ever tried properly bonding them?

I can only think, after any medical angle, that his behaviour at the bars is territorial (behaviours at the bars are often territory marking) or distress/frustration

Any ideas for a medical angle?

Its good to know about the playtime not being a great idea and i think it might be worth trying to properly bond them, but their relationship isn't new. We've had him for 4 years already and have had other piggies in adjacent cages as well and I've never seen this kind of behavior. He was even biting hard at me to put him down when i picked him up to get him out of his cage, which he never does. He's totally docile and a cuddle pig with me.

 

[Tracy321]

I wondered if you had separated them when he became unwell and he now didn’t like being separated, but I’d they have never lived together then it probably won’t be that

Although piggies who cannot share a cage should not have playtime together. To them these kind of play dates cause stress as to them it is a full bonding session which never gets seen through to conclusion. This is why you see the dominance behaviours each time - they try to establish a relationship.
Have you ever tried properly bonding them?

I can only think, after any medical angle, that his behaviour at the bars is territorial (behaviours at the bars are often territory marking) or distress/frustration

Sorry. I hope my last reply didn't sound dismissive. I'm exhausted. Feedings every 4-6 hours for the last two weeks means I'm not sleeping well. I really do appreciate the behavior advice. It's just that I've never seen this kind of behavior from him in 4 years and with everything else going on, I'm concerned that it's a medical issue. But maybe not.

 

[Swissgreys]

The only thing I can think of is pain to be honest.
When a piggy behaves like that and is totally out of character then pain would usually be my first guess, particularly as he is clearly receiving appropriate treatment and veterinary care.
Good luck with him - I hope you can get to the bottom of it.

 

[Swissgreys]

Sorry I mean to ask what dose of pain killer is he on?

And I feel you with the exhaustion. Be kind to yourself. You are doing an amazing job with him.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’d have to agree, pain would be the medical angle I’d be thinking, you say he is only being given half a dose when needed?
Piggies can take quite high doses of pain meds when compared to dogs or cats - is he being given dog or cat metacam? And at what dose? They also need their pain meds twice a day to keep on top of any discomfort
How much does he weigh?

i would get into the habit of weighing him daily while he is unwell. It’s so important to weigh weekly when they are well but switch to daily when unwell. It’s good he gained some weigh though, he must have been eating enough at that point, but I would still keep a closer eye on his weight for the time being

 

[Tracy321]

Sorry I mean to ask what dose of pain killer is he on?

And I feel you with the exhaustion. Be kind to yourself. You are doing an amazing job with him.

0.7ml of a 1.5mg/ml suspension once per day of metacam is the full dose. He weighs 1100g. I was breaking it up into a half dose every 12 hours as that seemed to work better. The vet suggested I could do that as well. He seemed to be doing better pain wise, no hunching or puffing up and active, so I dropped it to the half dose once per day.

And thanks

 

[Swissgreys]

0.7ml of a 1.5mg/ml suspension once per day of metacam is the full dose. I was breaking it up into a half dose every 12 hours as that seemed to work better. The vet suggested I could do that as well. He seemed to be doing better pain wise, no hunching or puffing up and active, so I dropped it to the half dose once per day.

And thanks

That's not a particularly high dose and you are absolutely correct that splitting it into twice a day is a much better idea.
Guinea pigs have a very fast metabolism, so once a day will mean he has breakthrough pain.
However 0.3ml twice a day is fairly low.

I wonder if his sudden frantic behaviour was caused by a one off incident like getting something stuck in the tooth cavity that was uncomfortable or distressing.
Did he calm down?

 

[Tracy321]

I’d have to agree, pain would be the medical angle I’d be thinking, you say he is only being given half a dose when needed?
Piggies can take quite high doses of pain meds when compared to dogs or cats - is he being given dog or cat metacam? And at what dose? They also need their pain meds twice a day to keep on top of any discomfort
How much does he weigh?

i would get into the habit of weighing him daily while he is unwell. It’s so important to weigh weekly when they are well but switch to daily when unwell. It’s good he gained some weigh though, he must have been eating enough at that point, but I would still keep a closer eye on his weight for the

That's not a particularly high dose and you are absolutely correct that splitting it into twice a day is a much better idea.
Guinea pigs have a very fast metabolism, so once a day will mean he has breakthrough pain.
However 0.3ml twice a day is fairly low.

I wonder if his sudden frantic behaviour was caused by a one off incident like getting something stuck in the tooth cavity that was uncomfortable or distressing.
Did he calm down?

Huh. I did ask the vet initially after the dental work if I could give more and she said that was the max. But that was over the phone via the receptionist. I'll ask again tomorrow since I'll need a refill as well anyway.

Something stuck in the tooth cavity could make a lot of sense since it was so random and sudden! Yes, he's much calmer now. Thankfully.

 

[Free Ranger]

Nothing to add to the experts other than I've never seen syringe feeding preventing a piggy from eating by themselves when they want to - they are never so full that they don't make the effort to squeeze in a bit more if they are up to it. After a dental we've had a week of painkiller and antibiotics as standard with a gut stimulant (emeprid) as needed every 6-8 hours. The idea that something might have poked into his wound makes a lot of sense to me - I had a tooth removed myself 2 years back and a similar thing happened a few weeks in and I nearly went through the roof!

 

[Tracy321]

Just a follow-up if anyone is wondering. Took him back to the vet today. No definitive answer but the incisor that was pulled is growing back and there was a small piece of hay stuck in the gum. So seems likely that either of those factors or the combination were the cause of his distress.

 

[Free Ranger]

Wowcher! Those teeth are very determined. Hope he's getting on well with his eating and pooping apart from that - he's a tough old boy by the sound of it. I hope my gentle George is listening and taking tips!