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Fluid buildup

C

Christuphar

New Born Pup
Joined
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Location
Milton Keynes
Hello all,

I am hoping you can help me.

We have our little piggie Freddie who is 4 and have just had a visit to the vets, Freddie presented with a saggy neck yesterday and this morning it went down slightly but there was a lump left behind, the vets examined him and also got a second opinion as they had never seen this before (frustrating as they said they're not experienced much and we live in Milton Keynes), she did an ultrasound and could see that it was fluid buildup and said they can either refer us to someone more qualified or give us the heart medication called Frurol Syrup because they suspect it's heart failure (which wouldn't cause any issues should it not be heart failure) and this could help, we're going for a follow up appointment on Monday.

My concern is that they're not experienced and I don't know where to turn to after this, and was wondering if anyone else had experience with this?

They said his abdomen feels tighter than they'd expect and we had a feel and noticed his right side was slightly more firmer but there was still a droop.

Freddie is still interested in his vegetables, water and food, his teeth are all OK as well.

Any advice or vet recommendations for the Milton Keynes area would be appreciated!
 
I’m sorry your boy is unwell. I have no experience but will post a link to the recommended vets below. I hope you can get him sorted soon.

Recommended Guinea Pig Vets
 
I would agree about having him seen by a more experienced vet.
If there is a lump have they ruled out an abscess?
Has Freddie's weight changed at all in recent weeks?
Does he have a companion and does the companion seem well?
Is he pooping ok?

I am just asking a few random things to rule out the more common ailments (abscess, bloat, etc).
 
Thanks both! They don't suspect an abscess because an ultrasound was performed that detected the fluid build up, weight is the same as he was in January but obviously if there is fluid he could be losing weight. Poops are all OK and his brother and he share the same cage and he's doing fine. Same amount of poops and he's loving his carrot.
 
His breathing is slightly gurgled and he's breathing more rapidly which is why they suspected a heart failure and prescribed the medicine. We give 1.25ml twice daily
 
Frusol syrup is the correct medicine for fluid build up caused by possible heart problems, but please check the dose- I doubt it is 1.25mls, more likely to be 0.125 mls?
 
PigglePuggle said:
Frusol syrup is the correct medicine for fluid build up caused by possible heart problems, but please check the dose- I doubt it is 1.25mls, more likely to be 0.125 mls?
Click to expand...

This is what his medication says?
 

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I would definitely query that with the vet then, a dose of 0.1 or 0.2 mls is more common- I can see how a slightly higher dose may be beneficial to begin with to get the fluid build up under control but I've never heard of such a high dose being given.
 
I think it's because per 5ml there is only 20mg, some of them contain 40g per 5ml and even 50g per 5ml.
 
1.25mls is still a lot, my piggy taking frusol has 0.1 mls of the 40mg per 5ml formulation which would still only be 0.2mls of your 20mg per 5ml formulation.
I would still query with the vet at the first opportunity, to avoid dehydration and stress on the kidneys.
 
PigglePuggle said:
1.25mls is still a lot, my piggy taking frusol has 0.1 mls of the 40mg per 5ml formulation which would still only be 0.2mls of your 20mg per 5ml formulation.
I would still query with the vet at the first opportunity, to avoid dehydration and stress on the kidneys.
Click to expand...
I checked with the vets and she said he is on 10mg a day to see if it gets it under control and review on Monday morning. I have seen many forums some people use a much lower dose and some have been prescribed similar to my dosing.
 
Hi! Welcome to the forum. Sorry to hear your piggie is unwell.
Depending on where about you are, you may be able to use Acorn house vets in Bedford, they are currently taking limited new patients depending on postcode. We recently discovered that they have an exotics vet who comes in a few times a week.
 
Thank you, unfortunately Acorn does not cover our postcode. Does anyone know how Frusol works, because the guinea has had his third dosage and he still looks to have fluid build-up around his neck and I imagined if it was to help, we'd notice this go down? He's eating vegetables and kale, but isn't too interested in nuggets, hay or water however I am giving him two pieces of cucumber a day (I know these should be treat foods but I am concerned about water in-take) I wash his kale and veg in cold water and serve it as wet as possible so I realise he may not need too much water, he's had a nibble on his seagrass hut and seems perkier today. I'm feeling overwhelmed and stressed by it all as I feel helpless.
 
Christuphar said:
Thank you, unfortunately Acorn does not cover our postcode. Does anyone know how Frusol works, because the guinea has had his third dosage and he still looks to have fluid build-up around his neck and I imagined if it was to help, we'd notice this go down? He's eating vegetables and kale, but isn't too interested in nuggets, hay or water however I am giving him two pieces of cucumber a day (I know these should be treat foods but I am concerned about water in-take) I wash his kale and veg in cold water and serve it as wet as possible so I realise he may not need too much water, he's had a nibble on his seagrass hut and seems perkier today. I'm feeling overwhelmed and stressed by it all as I feel helpless.
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So sorry he’s not seeming to perk up. As he’s not eating much hay you will need to step in and syringe feed (if you’re not already). If you don’t have any critical care you can use his pellets mushed up. You also weigh him once daily to keep an eye on his weight.

I would recommend you cut back on the kale. It is high in calcium and shouldn’t be fed daily. As for water, they drink as much as they need. Some does come from veg so he should be fine.

Have you had a look at the list of vets posted earlier? To see which one May be beer you? Fingers crossed he picks up soon.

Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
 
He does seem perkier today than yesterday with much more movement, it's just more of the fluid buildup not seeming to go down. He does eat his pellets, he's just less interested than usual and I managed to wet some down which he's been snatching out of my hand so I'm not too concerned, I have ordered critcare just in case however it won't arrive until Monday morning which is when we're going for a follow-up with the vets. I have contacted two vets that are closer to us and recommended but they are booked up for over a week which is of no use ☹️
 
Christuphar said:
Thank you, unfortunately Acorn does not cover our postcode. Does anyone know how Frusol works, because the guinea has had his third dosage and he still looks to have fluid build-up around his neck and I imagined if it was to help, we'd notice this go down? He's eating vegetables and kale, but isn't too interested in nuggets, hay or water however I am giving him two pieces of cucumber a day (I know these should be treat foods but I am concerned about water in-take) I wash his kale and veg in cold water and serve it as wet as possible so I realise he may not need too much water, he's had a nibble on his seagrass hut and seems perkier today. I'm feeling overwhelmed and stressed by it all as I feel helpless.
Click to expand...
Frusol works via the sodium-potassium-chloride transporter in the kidneys, it increases salt in the urine basically so the water should follow the salt and be drawn out due to the osmotic difference.
Generally agreed optimal dosage is 2.5mg per kg bodyweight twice daily for most mammals, increase in therapeutic effect may be seen up to a maximum of 5mg per kg bodyweight twice daily- any more may cause dehydration. The drug works within an hour of administration- and is completely metabolised in 4 to 6 hours- so if it is going to work, it should be working immediately.
Hope that helps- that's my veterinary pharmacologist/toxicoligist perspective anyway.
 
Also have the vets checked his kidney function at all? A low dose of frusol might support mild kidney problems, but a high dose of frusol may put far too much strain on damaged kidneys and make things worse... usually kidney function should be checked with any fluid retention issues before going in too hard with diuretics.
 
They didn't check his kidney functions as far as I am aware, it was just an ultrasound which showed the fluid and the proposed idea. Thank you for your information as I will go armed with this on Monday morning, I popped to the shops and came back to Freddie chewing on dry pellets and then freezing in place like I wasn't meant to catch him the cheeky piggy. Going to keep monitoring him! From my understanding of your breakdown, 10mg per day is too high or is it 5mg twice a day as the highest dosage which he is on?
 
Christuphar said:
They didn't check his kidney functions as far as I am aware, it was just an ultrasound which showed the fluid and the proposed idea. Thank you for your information as I will go armed with this on Monday morning, I popped to the shops and came back to Freddie chewing on dry pellets and then freezing in place like I wasn't meant to catch him the cheeky piggy. Going to keep monitoring him! From my understanding of your breakdown, 10mg per day is too high or is it 5mg twice a day as the highest dosage which he is on?
Click to expand...
There is very little data for guinea pigs but for rabbits and rats 5mg per kg bodyweight twice a day is ok- so the 10mg daily us roughly the maximum dose if he weighs over a kilo. This is mostly a guesstimate from rabbits and other rodents- cats are much more sensitive and should have less. The good news is that it isnt acutely toxic and an overdose would present as dehydration/weight loss/ impaired gut function well ahead of any lethal effects- but still need to be careful especially if you are somewhere with hot temperatures right now as many of us are.
Simple dipstick urine tests can tell the vet how concentrated his pee is and if there is protein in the urine which may indicate kidney issues- if the medicine is working his pee should be more concentrated now but there shouldnt be any protein.
Best of luck!
 
Hey everyone, just wanted to update you all! So Freddie has been back to the vets, and they have said the swelling has gone down but as he still had a lump as I called it, they believe it to be fluid that has firmed up and to keep going with the medication till next week and I have to admit, it's really working. He's drinking, eating, loving crit care as well. The 'lump' has started to go down which has made me happy. They suspect he has a heart issue and will do an x-ray next week (should the fluid be gone) so they can have a look into it, I think the hot weather put more pressure on to this heart and caused his little body some stress even despite my efforts to keep it as cool as I could inside, but I've gone all out these past 2 days with fans, ice packs, frozen bottles which has made it more manageable.
 
Quick update, the lump has really gone down and we have our follow-up in a few days, the boy is bouncing with energy now he's completely changed it's crazy. One thing, is anyone elses piggies addicted to Frusol, because this boy is mad for it, think he's slowly turning into an addict 🙈
Second thing I wanted to ask, he does still have a slight crackling when he wheeks, am I right to assume a small amount of fluid is still present?
 
Christuphar said:
Quick update, the lump has really gone down and we have our follow-up in a few days, the boy is bouncing with energy now he's completely changed it's crazy. One thing, is anyone elses piggies addicted to Frusol, because this boy is mad for it, think he's slowly turning into an addict 🙈
Second thing I wanted to ask, he does still have a slight crackling when he wheeks, am I right to assume a small amount of fluid is still present?
Click to expand...
Frusol tastes quite fruity, it is a very tasty medicine! I'm glad the fluid build up has cleared so well and he's doing so much better. Lung fluid can be harder to shift than fluid in the body generally because it doesnt really have a clear route out of the lungs back into the circulation. Fluid in the lungs can also become infected in some cases, but if it was he would probably not seem so well. Its worth mentioning to the vet if it persists, but hopefully if he is more active he's exercising more and breathing more freely and deeply and the lung fluid will be mobilised and clear on its own. Watch for if he becomes breathless and less active and more tired, or if his appetite drops off- otherwise hopefully things will resolve with a life long maintenace dose of frusol, he will probably need frusol continually now to prevent the fluid building up again and to take the strain off his heart.
 
Hello everyone, Freddie is luckily still with us despite losing weight. We have taken him back to the vets and she says the fluid has dropped off and we're continuing with a lower dose. Currently the only thing I can get him to eat is tomatoes or soft fleshly vegetables, he's not eating any hay or any firmer vegetables, he does eat his nuggets but he keeps dropping pieces and I thought this would indicate a dental problem, we took him to the vet today and she has checked his front and back teeth and can see no issue and I explained all of his eating habits too her. For the past few days his weight has increased from 565g and he is now 610g at the vet (592g on my scales), she couldn't find any indication he was in pain after a thorough examination and couldn't feel any lumps/masses, she has prescribed an anti-inflammatory/pain relief to give once daily to see if this will help him to eat, we have booked an x-ray but she doesn't believe this actually bring up anything and I don't want to have to have him sedated for it. Does anyone have any personal experience, I've tried mushing his pellets into a soft paste as he hates eating anything firm (broccoli and the stems, carrots, cauliflower, kale, lettuce), crit care isn't really working and I've even bought so many different types of syringes to try to make the process easier but I feel like I'm not getting enough down him.
 
The medicine is metacam 0.5mg/ml - we're giving .12ml a day - Frusol is now 1ml a day which I questioned if it's to high a dose for his weight and she said to continue. 😩
 
It’s good the fluid has reduced but sorry to hear he’s not eating. I would keep away from tomatoes and calcium rich veg. Could you cut the veg into matchsticks?

Which critical care have you tried? Sometimes they don’t particularly like one type. I’ll link to others below. And have you made the pellets sloppy enough?Have you also tried offering on a spoon or in a bowl - I’m assuming you have. The good thing is his weight has gone up so you need to keep going with top ups. Do you have access to dog/fox pee free grass? If so, you could try and see if he’ll eat it.

Lastly, is the metacam dog or cat? And is the dose given once a day or split and given every 12 hours?

Hopefully someone else with more knowledge will be better able to guide you. I’m sorry your boy is worth b you do much.

Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
 
Hello, yes I've tried all of the above, spoon, bowl, from my finger (which worked for one mouthful) mushed pellets, I realise about the tomatoes being high in calcium but it's the only thing I know for sure he's eating so he's getting 1 plum tomato a day currently 😩
Metacam is for cats and guinea pigs, and it's once a day. It's the oxbow aniseed one for crit care.

We have an area away from the dog and I gave grass to them but mainly his fat brother scoffed the lot.
 
It’s not that tomatoes are high in calcium, it’s that they are too acidic and can lead to a lip infection called cheilitis if bacteria gets into the cracks high acid food can cause

I realise the vet doesn’t think he is in pain but 0.12ml of cat metacam once a day probably wouldn’t solve any pain anyway as it is a very low dose
 
I agree re the dose. Especially being once daily. Guinea pigs have a high metabolism rate and can deal with higher doses better than dogs and cats. I would speak to the vet about the dosage and frequency.
 
The dose seems fine according to the manufactures guidelines on it:
Route and method of administration
The suspension should be given directly into the mouth using a standard 1 ml syringe graduated with ml scale and 0.01 ml increments.
Dose of 0.2 mg meloxicam/kg body weight: 0.4 ml/kg body weight
Dose of 0.1 mg meloxicam/kg body weight: 0.2 ml/kg body weight

We gave his medication over 4 hours ago and I have just managed to get a full 12ml syringe feed of crit care (he decided it had to be off of my finger though so he could nibble me and is probably more like 9ml from me dropping a bit) - it's the most I have ever managed to get down him and it was over the space of 10 minutes so I am just hoping to continue syringing tonight and hoping it'll add on some weight and go from there. I just have a feeling that his time may be coming.
 
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