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Five guinea pigs situation

corvidae

corvidae

New Born Pup
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Hi everyone,
I'm staying with a friend's parents in Mexico and they have 5 guinea pigs - a classic case of someone buying two that ended up being male and female, so ending up with 5. The person who originally adopted them didn't want them anymore so left them with my friend's elderly parents. They haven't been cared for very properly - for the past two years they were kept separately in small hamster cages with non-slip mat as flooring, and fed 100% veggies (no water, only occasional small handfuls of hay).

I bought them a bale of alfalfa hay (I know it is too high in calories and calcium compared to timothy, but I could not find timothy here so wanted them to at least have something in the short term), made sure they have water, and made three 2x2 C&C cages (well, cubes minus the coroplast that I could not find) (one for mom & daughter, one for dad, and one for two brothers) with fleece on top of towels. The dad is not neutered so can't go with the females, and does not get along with his sons, but at least now he can interact with the others through the grids. I know 2x2 is too small (my own guinea pig has 5 x 4 plus 2x2 lookout), but the owners wanted me to make the cages 2x1 so 2x2 was the best compromise they could get. Their bedding is just directly on top of the tile floor right now, I'm thinking a shower curtain could be the easiest-to-find replacement for the coroplast to protect the floor?

Now that their basic needs are more properly met, it is time to look to their health. I recommended that we bring all the guinea pigs to the vet, but the owners just want to bring one or two. Money is tight so I'll have to cover much of the bill... I've spent thousands on my own guinea pigs over the years, but I did not budget for five more guinea pigs worth of vet bills and supplies. I was hoping to get some advice about what to prioritize.

All three males visibly have lice and have large bald patches on their backs with scabs from itching. I couldn't see lice on the females but I'm assuming they have them too since they share blankets. The bald patches have gotten worse over the last week since I moved them from their separate hamster cages to the C&C cages, I guess the change was stressful. I've read the guinea lynx articles on lice and it sounds simple to treat, but is it something that they all have to go to the vet for, or can they bring one to the vet and get take-home treatment for the rest?

One of the brothers has incisors that seem too long in my experience. He always has a bit of veggies stuck between his upper incisors - I wish I could floss them. I hope the hay lets them start to wear down. He seems to eat fine.

The dad was very sticky, with matted fur and the longest nails I've seen. I cut out the mats and am planning on buying some pet shampoo and hairdryer to get him cleaned up. His lice seems the worst. He is also quite overweight. I recommended the owners to have him neutered so he can live with the two females.

The mom has red inflamed soles of her hind feet. Luckily it hasn't turned into full-on bumblefoot (no scabs). Is this something that should eventually resolve now that she is on fleece instead of wet mats? When I first arrived she always cried when urinating so I assume she had a bladder infection or stones, now after a week she doesn't seem to be crying any more. I urged the owners to take her to the vet but they haven't yet. She has been drinking constantly so maybe finally having access to water has helped her condition.

So, I offered to help pay to bring the mom & dad pigs to the vet, to get the mom checked out for her potential bladder issue and get the dad's lice checked out and have him neutered. If he can get neutered, then the pigs can go in two 3x2 cages instead of three 2x2 cages. Does that sound like the best strategy?

Thanks for any advice!
 
Oh gosh, poor piggies and what a difficult situation you are in. It’s so lovely you are willing to help.

Are you going to be staying with the family for a while?

A shower curtain is ideal as a floor protective layer.
If you can get them vet care and into as large as possible cages, then that obviously would be the best and right thing to do. (As you will know a 3x2 does not come close to that which three piggies need (it only just covers what two sows need) but you can only do what you can do)

The guide below explains more about lice.
You would have to speak to the vet about whether they want to see all before providing treatment for lice or whether they would give you enough for them without seeing all five.

New Guinea Pig Problems: Sexing & Pregnancy; URI, Ringworm & Parasites; Vet Checks & Customer Rights

Whether the dad can be neutered depends on his general health, his ability to withstand the anaesthetic and experience of the vet.
(The possibility that he may need to permanently stay single needs to be considered so having cages side by side is right for his interaction but it is essential he cannot get out of a c&c cage to get back in with the girls - entire boars living next to sows ideally need lidded cages so if he can’t be neutered then perhaps you can get more grids to make a lid for his cage)

Is there any other hay available there other than alfalfa? It doesn’t have to be timothy hay, it can be any type of grass hay.
 
Hello and welcome to the forum
Just wanted to say good on you for trying to make these little piggies lives better. Can’t offer any further advice but let us know how you get on 🤞
 
Thank you! I'll try to do my best. Good tip about putting a lid on the cage, I don't want to multiply the situation.
I'll only be staying with them for another couple weeks, then I'm going home to Canada.
The owners said they will book for the two parent piggies and then I'll see what the vet says about the lice. I'm hoping that will happen before I leave.

It seems like oat hay is actually available to order online (ack, should have gotten that instead of impulse buying a 6 kg bale of alfalfa...)
 
If once you’ve got thing as sorted as you can, are the owners going to be able to keep up with the appropriate care when you aren’t there?

To me it doesn’t sound as if neutering the dad is likely to happen, but if it does then bonding him with the girls certainly won’t be able to happen while you are there if you are only there for another couple of weeks. A newly neutered boar remains fertile for the first six weeks post neuter so needs to stay away from sows during that time. Then there is then a proper bonding process which needs to be followed (once he is six weeks safe) to be able to get him to live with girls.

I can appreciate you don’t want to waste the money but I would stop giving the alfalfa and get a proper grass hay. The last thing you want is for health problems because of a sudden, sustained and large intake of calcium.
 
Piggies&buns said:
If once you’ve got thing as sorted as you can, are the owners going to be able to keep up with the appropriate care when you aren’t there?

To me it doesn’t sound as if neutering the dad is likely to happen, but if it does then bonding him with the girls certainly won’t be able to happen while you are there if you are only there for another couple of weeks. A newly neutered boar remains fertile for the first six weeks post neuter so needs to stay away from sows during that time. Then there is then a proper bonding process which needs to be followed (once he is six weeks safe) to be able to get him to live with girls.

I can appreciate you don’t want to waste the money but I would stop giving the alfalfa and get a proper grass hay. The last thing you want is for health problems because of a sudden, sustained and large intake of calcium.
Click to expand...
Thank you, I will switch to oat hay then. Definitely don't want to cause them health problems.

The boar used to live with the mother guinea pig until she gave birth, so they used to be bonded. They sniff at each other through the grids and the female climbs up like she wants to go to his side. Their daughter doesn't show much interaction with him so I guess it would be unpredictable whether they would bond. I'll make sure they don't try to introduce him too early if they do proceed with the neutering.

The owners do seem to genuinely care about them, but don't seem to accept how much guinea pigs really need, or to understand their body language. It is frustrating to hear them squeak and squeak and be ignored or told they need to be patient :( until I step in to feed them, or to have their unhappy sounds be interpreted as happy sounds. I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for the owners to meet their needs after I'm gone, I just hope they take my advice. I wish I could take the guinea pigs with me, but that isn't logistically possible.
 
Thank you for the encouragement!

The owners took the guinea pigs to the vet a couple days ago. I was very disappointed that I wasn't able to go with them, but I'm glad they went. The vet prescribed them vitamin C and explained their proper diet, which they listened to much better than when I tried to explain it.

Frustratingly, the vet did not see any lice on them, and so did not give them lice treatment. They gave some sort of anti-parasite injection and took a sample for some sort of ectoparasite test, but unfortunately the owners didn't remember exactly what it was. I'm a bit annoyed that the vet did not believe them when they said that we saw lice - I know that the vet has no reason to believe us, but as a biologist with training and experience in insect identification, I have no doubt that the tiny elongated insects that I saw crawling through their fur were lice! For them to get treatment, apparently I need to collect a sample as proof, but now I can't find any (I wonder if whatever they injected them with (ivermectin?) killed the lice over the last two days?). If they did kill the lice, I'm guessing that won't have cleared the infestation as the eggs will not have been killed.

If the vet won't treat them for lice, how worried should I be? Is that something that might have just flared up temporarily and they can live with as a mild nuisance? (assume that I am not making it up and they really did have lice)
The test will take three weeks to get results (I don't know what they are testing for, the owners told me it will test for fungal infection, mites, and lice, but I don't understand what test can test for all that), so I will be gone by then. Meanwhile the guinea pigs have big bald patches with scabs over their backs.

The vet also wants to spay the daughter as a preventative measure for ovarian cysts (the mom was already spayed after giving birth). My own guinea pig has ovarian cysts and my home vet doesn't recommend putting them through the risk of surgery, but I guess this vet has a different opinion. To me it sounds far too risky to do as a routine procedure. The vet also wants to castrate all three males, which I do not understand the purpose of, especially if the females were to be spayed. Is it reasonable to get the males castrated if they have no risk of causing pregnancy?

Thank you!
 
Piggies&buns said:
Lice are a problem if left untreated. Unlike hay mites, lice are blood sucking so can weaken piggies

New Guinea Pig Problems: Sexing & Pregnancy; URI, Ringworm & Parasites; Vet Checks & Customer Rights
Spaying as a preventative is not something we come across given it is a major surgery. Generally sows are only spayed if there is a confirmed need to do so.
Neutering the boars would be considered more routine and a preferred course of action given it is less invasive than a spaying.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I will try to get proof of the lice to get them treated. Very frustrated that the vet disregarded our observation just because they couldn't see any in that moment.

I'm a bit alarmed that the vet wants to spay the female, I'll recommend the owners to skip it then if it is not something people normally do.
 
Is there any way to find new parents for the pigs that will care for them properly? It appears that the long term course of action is to get all their current problems sorted out and then find them a new home that will care for them.
 
StayGold86 said:
Is there any way to find new parents for the pigs that will care for them properly? It appears that the long term course of action is to get all their current problems sorted out and then find them a new home that will care for them.
Click to expand...
That might be the best option, but the owners want to keep them, and I don't have any authority about that. None of the other family members want them :(
In the pet store here, the guinea pigs are kept multiple per hamster cage with wire flooring, and were being fed bananas and tortilla when I went by... very sad. I think staying with the current owners is the best option available right now.
 
If they're going to stay with the current owners, the next best plan would be to sort out all of the current issues (like you are doing) with the pigs and then get the owners on board with the responsibility that is required to give them a happy and healthy life. It might be worth creating some quick guide for them that talks about the correct daily diet needed, proper living situation (pig house size and cleaning required), and identifying when they need to go to the vet.

On a side note, whenever I walk into a store that sells Guinea Pigs and I do not see proper living conditions, I report it directly to their management. By doing this, I have made sure my local pet stores are at least giving the pigs a better diet before they're sold.
 
@StayGold86 has a great idea there. Maybe print them some sort of guide that you can leave with them, just all the basic info on diet, grooming, cleaning out, handling etc. 👍
 
Thanks, good idea! The printout seems to have been useful. They are now getting oat hay, leaf lettuce, bell pepper, cucumber, and small amounts of pellets. They seem much happier than a month ago. They might not have an ideal setup or meet the standards of our community, but now the younger pigs popcorn when they hear food coming, and they all have some space to forage around and interact. If I can just get these lice sorted, hopefully they will be ok.
 
Try to find a place that sells Timothy Hay. It's gotta be sold somewhere. Keep going though, you're doing great! Keep thinking of all the things you can do before you leave.

Do they have filtered water?
Do they have a big and clean cage?
Do they have an emergency kit?
Do they have a good diet?
Do they have proper bedding?
Do the owners have a diet plan?
Do the owners have a emergency plan with contact list?
Do the owners have a cleaning schedule?
Do the owners know how to identify illnesses?
Do they get exercise?

Etc. Just throwing these questions out there to keep you thinking before you go.
 
Thanks!

Going through your questions:
Filtered water: check ✔️ but it is not being changed every day
Cage: not adequate, they only have 2x2 grids, cleaned every few days. Too small, but better than a 40 cm square hamster cage, and they are no longer wet.
Emergency kit: just a basic human first aid kit, but no critical care
Diet: ✔️ Ok diet now, assuming they keep it up, although with oat instead of timothy. I found some sources to order timothy hay, but it is quite expensive - buying enough for 5 guinea pigs would be legitimately out of the owners' budget. I would have to subsidize them long-term, which I didn't plan for.
Bedding: fleece on towels ✔️ although they keep switching the towels for non-absorptive mats. I will try to buy more towels and keep emphasizing that the fleece is meant to stay dry using the towels.
Diet plan ✔️ printed out
Emergency plan: ✔️ they went to an exotic vet that seems knowledgable about guinea pigs.
Cleaning schedule: I recommended daily spot cleans and weekly full washes, they seem to spot clean every few days and change bedding weekly. More poop accumulating than I am comfortable with but probably ok.
Identifying illnesses: I've pointed out some things although they mostly deny the signs
Exercise: none that I see, but the owner does the caretaking in the middle of the night while I'm asleep and apparently they get some floor time then.

We'll keep in contact after I leave, so while it may not be the best set up, hopefully they will be better than before.
 
corvidae said:
Thanks!

Going through your questions:
Filtered water: check ✔️ but it is not being changed every day
Cage: not adequate, they only have 2x2 grids, cleaned every few days. Too small, but better than a 40 cm square hamster cage, and they are no longer wet.
Emergency kit: just a basic human first aid kit, but no critical care
Diet: ✔️ Ok diet now, assuming they keep it up, although with oat instead of timothy. I found some sources to order timothy hay, but it is quite expensive - buying enough for 5 guinea pigs would be legitimately out of the owners' budget. I would have to subsidize them long-term, which I didn't plan for.
Bedding: fleece on towels ✔️ although they keep switching the towels for non-absorptive mats. I will try to buy more towels and keep emphasizing that the fleece is meant to stay dry using the towels.
Diet plan ✔️ printed out
Emergency plan: ✔️ they went to an exotic vet that seems knowledgable about guinea pigs.
Cleaning schedule: I recommended daily spot cleans and weekly full washes, they seem to spot clean every few days and change bedding weekly. More poop accumulating than I am comfortable with but probably ok.
Identifying illnesses: I've pointed out some things although they mostly deny the signs
Exercise: none that I see, but the owner does the caretaking in the middle of the night while I'm asleep and apparently they get some floor time then.

We'll keep in contact after I leave, so while it may not be the best set up, hopefully they will be better than before.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you’ve done all you can. The rest is up to the owners now.
Oat hay is absolutely fine for them, so don’t worry about not being able to get timothy
Well done for helping them
 
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