First time with bloat - and it's Louise

[Free Ranger]

Well it had to happen eventually. In 10+ years of piggies we've never had bloat but in the last couple of days Louise has crammed into a snuggle tunnel and stayed there all day. She loves her fluffy surfaces so I didn't think much of it at first but when I went to lift her out yesterday for weighing (everyone same weights) she felt like a balloon. It's hard to spot by eye as she's so fluffy. She's off her hay and poops are down. I'm thinking it's the rich Spring grass... everyone is gorging on it but she's a greedy gal (1.3 kilo). So no grass pile today - the others can go out on the newly re-turfed lawn. Both George and Flora are fighting fit so it's just a Louise thing. She's actually a bit softer in the guts this morning. I'm making a vet appt, charging the electric toothbrush and warming the heat pads. I'm going foraging for Gripe water. Any tips welcome - I've read the guide and know that Simethicone should be politely avoided. I'm making up some Recovery to tempt her

 

[Claire W]

I’m sorry that Louise is bloated I’m afraid I don’t have any advise but I hope you can get her a vets appointment and that she is feeling better soon x

 

[Bill & Ted]

Well it had to happen eventually. In 10+ years of piggies we've never had bloat but in the last couple of days Louise has crammed into a snuggle tunnel and stayed there all day. She loves her fluffy surfaces so I didn't think much of it at first but when I went to lift her out yesterday for weighing (everyone same weights) she felt like a balloon. It's hard to spot by eye as she's so fluffy. She's off her hay and poops are down. I'm thinking it's the rich Spring grass... everyone is gorging on it but she's a greedy gal (1.3 kilo). So no grass pile today - the others can go out on the newly re-turfed lawn. Both George and Flora are fighting fit so it's just a Louise thing. She's actually a bit softer in the guts this morning. I'm making a vet appt, charging the electric toothbrush and warming the heat pads. I'm going foraging for Gripe water. Any tips welcome - I've read the guide and know that Simethicone should be politely avoided. I'm making up some Recovery to tempt her

A gentle downward message along the tummy helped my Ted once after a post operative dental.It’s often an air pocket that needs shifting, Hope she’s better soon x

 

[Free Ranger]

Thanks both, she's gone to sleep in the snuggle tunnel for a bit after the surprise of a 20 min cuddle this morning so I'm prepping for when she wakes up. I've tucked the heat pad to one side of her. Hopefully it's just a hump we have to get her through...

 

[Wiebke]

Well it had to happen eventually. In 10+ years of piggies we've never had bloat but in the last couple of days Louise has crammed into a snuggle tunnel and stayed there all day. She loves her fluffy surfaces so I didn't think much of it at first but when I went to lift her out yesterday for weighing (everyone same weights) she felt like a balloon. It's hard to spot by eye as she's so fluffy. She's off her hay and poops are down. I'm thinking it's the rich Spring grass... everyone is gorging on it but she's a greedy gal (1.3 kilo). So no grass pile today - the others can go out on the newly re-turfed lawn. Both George and Flora are fighting fit so it's just a Louise thing. She's actually a bit softer in the guts this morning. I'm making a vet appt, charging the electric toothbrush and warming the heat pads. I'm going foraging for Gripe water. Any tips welcome - I've read the guide and know that Simethicone should be politely avoided. I'm making up some Recovery to tempt her

Hi

Please see a vet promptly for gut stimulants (emeprid or metoclopramide and potentially cisapride - sadly zantac/ranitidine, the most effective, has been taken off the market some years ago) and painkillers, especially if her belly is tight/hard and sounds hollow when you gently knock against it (severe bloating).
The latter is a serious, potentially life-threatening condition and NOT a case for home treatment; gripe water won't help in this case as severe bloat is an entirely different beast. If simethicone/infacol is all you can get out of a vet and you have severe bloat, then it is better to try it than not.
Here is the guide you refer to for other readers of this thread: Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

Unfortunately, re-introducing grass and lawn time for indoors piggies needs to be carefully built up as there is always the one piggy that can react sensitively and either develop diarrhea or bloating (including severe bloat); especially when you serve damp grass. Older piggies can become more sensitive in their digestion so you can't necessarily count on your piggies just being OK the next year in my own experience.
I would also be careful not to put any indoors piggies onto the lawn after a freezing or near freezing night; the ground should be warm and dry to your own bare feet for 5 minutes as piggies are much lower down to it; that will prevent potential Spring time UTI (bacterial urine infection).
Feeding Grass And Preparing Your Piggies For Lawn Time

All the best! I would recommend to add probiotics to your recovery mix and also try to give some additional poo soup to help kick-start the dysbiotic microbiome in the gut where the overgrowth of the wrong kind of bacteria will be responsible for any grass-based bloating.
Here is the recipe for making 'poo soup' to ensure that healthy live microbiome reached the gut in time to do good: Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

 

[Free Ranger]

Thanks @Wiebke - yes we shot off to the vet at 12 and have been prescribed a high dose of emeprid and metacam. Vet wanted to avoid simethicone if possible which was reassuring. She doesn't like gripe water (neither do I - it tastes very strange - I'd have to be desperate to give it to a baby) However, she took about a ml in sessions along with 10ml of Recovery/bio-lapis which she was hungry for once she realised it wasn't poison. I couldn't see many of 'her' poops in the cage but she produced about 15 in the snuggle tunnel in the half hour on the way to the vets and every one was different so I'm satisfied her guts are still on the move but so disrupted that I can't identify them any more. She's also peeing well. She's had 2 sessions with the electric toothbrush which hasn't shifted anything yet but she seems to be appreciating it and looks relaxed even when it's directly against her sides. She had to be 'persuaded' to have another 10ml of Recovery later. She's had a few thoughtful nibbles at her hay but nothing serious. I'm going to press George for poop soup donation later which I think he's realised as he's dodging me! She is looking very gassy but she's softer than she was yesterday. She needs to get rid of some of it and reassure me that there's nothing more serious by tucking into her hay If she blows up more I'll take her back in.

They get grass all year round as we are lucky to have a couple of good sources close by with the meadow and the school vegetable garden (neither of these get sprayed with anything) so there hasn't been any change to the 'wet' part of the diet apart from nature's own. The grass must be very rich as it's growing like anything. Louise doesn't come outside with me like George and Flora do so although she's had 10 minutes on the new turf that was enough and she came back in to her home comforts. The only thing recently that's been a proper new thing has been the 1/2 lozenge of Oxbow joint support that George has one of for his arthritis. The vet today had a good look at the ingredients list and, like my other vet, couldn't see anything offensive in there, so if I had to bet money I'd hope it's been a surfeit of greens on a sensitive stomach and that this has perhaps been creeping on slowly for a while? She is a big eater (hubs calls her 'portion control') and she is particularly partial to sweeter things like red/yellow bell peppers and carrot. However, for now it's Recovery, probiotic and hay only. The others will have to have sneaky veg while she's being tooth-brushed in the other room.

Thanks for all your help x

 

[Flutterby]

Sending lots of healing vibes xx

 

[Free Ranger]

Bloaty McBloatface has picked up a bit! Out the hidey, going for the meadow hay with more gusto, having a little scratch and a groom... I only checked on them because I could hear the quiet tinkle of the water bottle and thought, "Ooh - maybe she's having a drink!" but it turned out to be George's giant ar*e knocking into the spout as he burrowed into the corner. He doesn't seem to feel the wet stripe he's now wearing!
Oh and she's just eaten two pellets from the bowl. Go Louise!

Not Easter yet so I'm not counting my chickens, but I'm happier

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks @Wiebke - yes we shot off to the vet at 12 and have been prescribed a high dose of emeprid and metacam. Vet wanted to avoid simethicone if possible which was reassuring. She doesn't like gripe water (neither do I - it tastes very strange - I'd have to be desperate to give it to a baby) However, she took about a ml in sessions along with 10ml of Recovery/bio-lapis which she was hungry for once she realised it wasn't poison. I couldn't see many of 'her' poops in the cage but she produced about 15 in the snuggle tunnel in the half hour on the way to the vets and every one was different so I'm satisfied her guts are still on the move but so disrupted that I can't identify them any more. She's also peeing well. She's had 2 sessions with the electric toothbrush which hasn't shifted anything yet but she seems to be appreciating it and looks relaxed even when it's directly against her sides. She had to be 'persuaded' to have another 10ml of Recovery later. She's had a few thoughtful nibbles at her hay but nothing serious. I'm going to press George for poop soup donation later which I think he's realised as he's dodging me! She is looking very gassy but she's softer than she was yesterday. She needs to get rid of some of it and reassure me that there's nothing more serious by tucking into her hay If she blows up more I'll take her back in.

They get grass all year round as we are lucky to have a couple of good sources close by with the meadow and the school vegetable garden (neither of these get sprayed with anything) so there hasn't been any change to the 'wet' part of the diet apart from nature's own. The grass must be very rich as it's growing like anything. Louise doesn't come outside with me like George and Flora do so although she's had 10 minutes on the new turf that was enough and she came back in to her home comforts. The only thing recently that's been a proper new thing has been the 1/2 lozenge of Oxbow joint support that George has one of for his arthritis. The vet today had a good look at the ingredients list and, like my other vet, couldn't see anything offensive in there, so if I had to bet money I'd hope it's been a surfeit of greens on a sensitive stomach and that this has perhaps been creeping on slowly for a while? She is a big eater (hubs calls her 'portion control') and she is particularly partial to sweeter things like red/yellow bell peppers and carrot. However, for now it's Recovery, probiotic and hay only. The others will have to have sneaky veg while she's being tooth-brushed in the other room.

Thanks for all your help x

Good that you have seen a vet; it rather sounds like the bloat is serious and not just a mild little hiccup. Just hang on in there for the next few days. Keep in mind that it may take day or even two for the syringe feed to come through in the poos - it very much depends on how quickly the gut is moving.

As long as a piggy is drinking and accepting feed, the internal conveyor belt is still moving; however bad the poos and despite any gaps in the output (mirroring gaps in the input) - that only stops when a piggy is unable to process feed. I've always found that a consolation during the darkest moments of fighting GI stasis or bloat.

The majority of my own piggies love gripe water. Barri so much that I can quite literally lift him up off his feet hanging on to the syringe he won't surrender to me... So he gets a little as his special treat at the end of his full compliment of gut mets for his IBS like issues. However, gripe water won't help you any with serious bloat, which usually happens right out of the blue without any obvious reason and is not diet related.

 

[Free Ranger]

A positive update and a question at the end...?

I waited until she had finished eating on her own last night to give her evening emeprid and a bit more slurry. She'd been on the hay all evening then fluffed up in the corner for 10 minutes (I kept telling her to stop doing weird stuff and freaking me out but she didn't listen). Turned out she was unloading a backlog so I forgave her. So, a final top-up to make sure the emeprid was washed down and as George had been super-generous there was a little poop soup mixed in... possibly why she was reluctant at first but then she took about 5ml. Right at the end there was a sudden struggle and a POP noise - a lump had bunged up the syringe and then shot out a sudden spatter so of course I spent all night jittering and waking up, thinking I'd filled her lungs and finished her off so why didn't I just leave well alone! Arrgh!

But this morning she was pretty much back to her old self. First one out into the kitchen for veggies (sorry girlie, not yet), grooming and scratching, hopped onto a shelf and off, drinking from the bottle, and poops looking more uniform and normal - yes I was stalking her until she produced! So it seems we are over the worst but not quite out of the woods. I had a good feel and a bit of a squeeze of George's sides/tummy and also of Flora's (so now nobody is my friend) and while one side of Louise feels as near as 'normal' as an amateur can asses through that much fat and fluff, the other side still feels a bit gassy. Her side is soft overall but there's still like a tiny balloon or bubble or something, so we're not quite out of the woods yet. I'd say 'her' right side...? At least if I hold her facing left it's the side facing away from me. Perhaps that's her actual stomach - my pig anatomy isn't great. (Edit - have Googled - stomach further forward - think it's the caecum - would make more sense...) Anyway, she's not had any massage today as there was barely a pause in the hay munching so I was letting her get on with it. The other two are disgusted as this is two days without grass and veg - we are lucky it's Easter hols so their routine is mussed up anyway. Emeprid and 5 ml recovery plus probiotic for supper. Now she's gone to sleep in the hay.

Question: Assuming all is well overnight, tomorrow she'll be strategically removed while the other 2 get some veggies in the morning. This is 2 days since she had veg or grass. Should I leave her another day or should I start with one or two small things - a spinach leaf, a pinch of grass, a little dandelion leaf? How best to reintroduce veg and grass? I know I should avoid the brassicas but what about salads? (lettuce blows me up but I'm a person) I'm even feeling a bit nervous of giving anything to the others - I'll have nightmares of everyone bloating up unexpectedly.

Any tips on what to start with and how to monitor her? And how long to keep the probiotic going for?

Many thanks as always x

 

[Bill & Ted]

So glad Louise is out of the woods, I’ll leave the question to someone more expert

 

[VickiA]

It’s great that she’s doing well - it is such a worry.

I have had to deal with several bloaty pigs. Firstly, I don’t wish to alarm you but please be warned and aware that even when it looks like things are going great, you can suddenly have a recurrence and also she may be prone to further episodes in future. Just best to be alive to it.


I wouldn’t give her any green stuff until 24 - 48 hours after she has returned to some sort of normal gut rhythm. She will cope without vit c for a couple of days.

When reintroducing veggies, please introduce only one at a time and in minute quantity. For me, it’s usually a coriander leaf /stalk of coriander. Herbs are generally gentle on the guts but literally just one and then wait to see the impact. If she remains ok after 24 hours then you can increase the amount slightly or add in a minuscule amount eg of red pepper. But it’s really important to keep going slowly in very small increments and monitoring the effects upon her of each new vegetable. Same with grass. I’ve had some piggies who wee never able to return to lawn time or have grass again after a severe bloaty episode.

I’d keep up the probiotic until everything has returned to normal and remains that way for a few days.

Hope this helps a bit - it’s all a bit “ see how you go “…..

 

[Wiebke]

A positive update and a question at the end...?

I waited until she had finished eating on her own last night to give her evening emeprid and a bit more slurry. She'd been on the hay all evening then fluffed up in the corner for 10 minutes (I kept telling her to stop doing weird stuff and freaking me out but she didn't listen). Turned out she was unloading a backlog so I forgave her. So, a final top-up to make sure the emeprid was washed down and as George had been super-generous there was a little poop soup mixed in... possibly why she was reluctant at first but then she took about 5ml. Right at the end there was a sudden struggle and a POP noise - a lump had bunged up the syringe and then shot out a sudden spatter so of course I spent all night jittering and waking up, thinking I'd filled her lungs and finished her off so why didn't I just leave well alone! Arrgh!

But this morning she was pretty much back to her old self. First one out into the kitchen for veggies (sorry girlie, not yet), grooming and scratching, hopped onto a shelf and off, drinking from the bottle, and poops looking more uniform and normal - yes I was stalking her until she produced! So it seems we are over the worst but not quite out of the woods. I had a good feel and a bit of a squeeze of George's sides/tummy and also of Flora's (so now nobody is my friend) and while one side of Louise feels as near as 'normal' as an amateur can asses through that much fat and fluff, the other side still feels a bit gassy. Her side is soft overall but there's still like a tiny balloon or bubble or something, so we're not quite out of the woods yet. I'd say 'her' right side...? At least if I hold her facing left it's the side facing away from me. Perhaps that's her actual stomach - my pig anatomy isn't great. (Edit - have Googled - stomach further forward - think it's the caecum - would make more sense...) Anyway, she's not had any massage today as there was barely a pause in the hay munching so I was letting her get on with it. The other two are disgusted as this is two days without grass and veg - we are lucky it's Easter hols so their routine is mussed up anyway. Emeprid and 5 ml recovery plus probiotic for supper. Now she's gone to sleep in the hay.

Question: Assuming all is well overnight, tomorrow she'll be strategically removed while the other 2 get some veggies in the morning. This is 2 days since she had veg or grass. Should I leave her another day or should I start with one or two small things - a spinach leaf, a pinch of grass, a little dandelion leaf? How best to reintroduce veg and grass? I know I should avoid the brassicas but what about salads? (lettuce blows me up but I'm a person) I'm even feeling a bit nervous of giving anything to the others - I'll have nightmares of everyone bloating up unexpectedly.

Any tips on what to start with and how to monitor her? And how long to keep the probiotic going for?

Many thanks as always x

Hi

Please always wait 24 hours after a mild tummy upset and 48 hours after a serious one until things have normalised before you re-introduce veg very slowly in order to not overset the digestive gut microbiome again. Major bloat is not something that settles quickly; it can take days or even weeks for the gut to fully stabilise.

Ideally you start with a little herb and then add a small quantity of a new variety fresh food with every following feed for the next 2-3 meals. Stop as soon as the problem is back.

PS: Poo soup is only effective if you only have about max. 10-15 minutes between a poo being freshly dropped, soaked in water and the water syringed to the ill piggy - the less time the better because otherwise the microbiome won't be live anymore by the time it gets into the gut. If done properly, poo soup works better than a probiotic since it is tailor made for piggies, but it needs to be as fresh as possible. As soon as poos are being dropped, you are on the ticker. That is the reason why recovering piggies are bum digging for absolutely fresh poos from their mates.
It is really worth reading up on how to make poo soup before you try it yourself, including how to get a piggy to make fresh poos when you need them etc.: Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

All the best. I know that it is tedious but rebalancing the gut once it has been out of kilter is a ratehr delicate balance act.

 

[Free Ranger]

Poo soup is only effective if you only have about max. 10-15 minutes between a poo being freshly dropped, soaked in water and the water syringed to the ill piggy - the less time the better because otherwise the microbiome won't be live anymore by the time it gets into the gut.

Last night we got lucky when unbunging George. Sometimes he just has compressed waste poops clogging up the bomb-hatch but luckily there was ripe and stinky sloppy poop binding it all together. Happy days! My reasoning was that if it tempts him enough to eat it himself it's probably the right stuff so straight into water it went and soup would be the right word. I mixed it in with the Recovery though - she has her standards.

Hope this helps a bit - it’s all a bit “ see how you go “…..

All the best. I know that it is tedious but rebalancing the gut once it has been out of kilter is a ratehr delicate balance act.

Aah but she's worth it ...

 

[Wiebke]

Last night we got lucky when unbunging George. Sometimes he just has compressed waste poops clogging up the bomb-hatch but luckily there was ripe and stinky sloppy poop binding it all together. Happy days! My reasoning was that if it tempts him enough to eat it himself it's probably the right stuff so straight into water it went and soup would be the right word. I mixed it in with the Recovery though - she has her standards.



Aah but she's worth it ...
View attachment 200322

Thank you for clarifying that!

 

[Free Ranger]

Louise update:
Over the past few days she's had lettuce, cucumber, spinach, pepper and grass - which was the thing she was most excited for. She doesn't seem to be blowing up at all but we're still being careful. The gas as far as I can tell has passed through. I've stopped the emeprid and didn't give her any Recovery yesterday as her poops are pretty much normal now. Really relieved it wasn't during the bank holiday. Thanks to everyone for their support

 

[Free Ranger]

BTW I hope I corrected my opening thread title in time. When I started this I'd called it "First time with bloat - and it's lovely Louise" but of course that's quite long. When it appeared on the forum list it said "First time with bloat - and it's lovely..." and I had to jump in to change it - sorry if that offended anyone!

 

[VickiA]

Louise update:
Over the past few days she's had lettuce, cucumber, spinach, pepper and grass - which was the thing she was most excited for. She doesn't seem to be blowing up at all but we're still being careful. The gas as far as I can tell has passed through. I've stopped the emeprid and didn't give her any Recovery yesterday as her poops are pretty much normal now. Really relieved it wasn't during the bank holiday. Thanks to everyone for their support

So glad to hear this x

 

[Wiebke]

Louise update:
Over the past few days she's had lettuce, cucumber, spinach, pepper and grass - which was the thing she was most excited for. She doesn't seem to be blowing up at all but we're still being careful. The gas as far as I can tell has passed through. I've stopped the emeprid and didn't give her any Recovery yesterday as her poops are pretty much normal now. Really relieved it wasn't during the bank holiday. Thanks to everyone for their support

That is great news. You never know how these things will swing so I prefer to err on the side of caution in my advice.

 

[Claire W]

That's great news. I am so pleased Louise is doing well x

 

[Bill & Ted]

Aw, so glad Louise has made a good recovery x

 

[weepweeps]

Hope Louise continues on the road to recovery

 

[Free Ranger]

She's still doing well - although the others are pretty hacked off about the small quantities of grass that they're getting right now. We'll build up again slowly... am away a couple days next week so not risking triggering anything beforehand if I can help it!

 

[VickiA]

Definitely better to be safe than sorry.