Fighting Guinea Pigs

[gracie_n13]

Hey,
I’ve owned my Guinea pigs since June the 28th of this year, both also taken care of in shared space in pets at home for 3 weeks. We have owned Guinea pigs before however they unfortunately passed around a month before of old age. we reached out to look for new ones. Not as a replacement, just as we enjoy having animals to take care of. They were fine at first, I didn’t recognise any fighting, thought when we first bought them home caramel had a scab on the back of his ear. I didn’t think much of this as I hadn’t experienced fighting before. My last Guinea pigs never fought and got along perfectly. For context, both pairs I’ve owned are males. As I mentioned, they were fine until around two weeks ago. I have noticed little fights and another scab on the back of caramels ear, as well as when I had them out last night I watched fudge jump onto caramel and hit him in a way? Please let me know what this means. But no, that was the first time I’d seen them properly fight. I didn’t take much notice, just taking it as teenage drama. but I’ve been stressing and can’t sleep out of worry for them both. Tonight they both fought. I had caramel out and noticed dried blood on his ear, assuming that they’d fought and fudge had hurt him. When I tried to put him back in the cage with fudge, which I now know was not a good idea, they both rumblestrutted until they caramel backed away into his area of the cage (they both stay on opposite sides, which is quite different compared to my past Guinea pigs who cuddled on one side of the cage constantly). Before this, I could hear constant loud chattering with what seemed to be angry intentions. Then I saw one being chased about. What do I do? I can’t do anything tonight but plan on calling vets in the morning for advice. I’ve read about separation between bars for interaction to still be continued or full clean of cage and bath together, but not sure if it’ll work. please help me out here!

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

The first thing is to be very clear on whether it’s dominance or whether there has been a fight. If you are finding blood and scabs then I am guessing an actual fight.

Dominance is normal - rumbling, chasing and mounting. All very normal behaviours in a functioning relationship and never a reason to separate.
It is very normal for bonded pairs to not cuddle up together. In itself doesn’t mean anything.

However an actual fight is rolling around aggression, bites and injuries. You say you are finding scabs and blood so I suspect this could be what has happened.

Actual fights and injuries are immediately bond breaking and the piggies must be separated immediately and permanently.
Nothing will fix a broken bond.

(A full cage clean - that wipes scent from the cage and can make territorial issues even in a well bonded pair. This is why we recommend half cage cleans in teen boars. Cleaning a cage will not fix any issues between them if they are not compatible.
Bathing together is a very outdated and totally ineffective method. It will stress them and not fix a bond at all).

Separated piggies need to live side by side. Each cage needs to be a minimum of 120x60cm.

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

 

[gracie_n13]

I’m sorry to hear this.

The first thing is to be very clear on whether it’s dominance or whether there has been a fight. If you are finding blood and scabs then I am guessing an actual fight.

Dominance is normal - rumbling, chasing and mounting. All very normal behaviours in a functioning relationship and never a reason to separate.
It is very normal for bonded pairs to not cuddle up together. In itself doesn’t mean anything.

However an actual fight is rolling around aggression, bites and injuries. You say you are finding scabs and blood so I suspect this could be what has happened.

Actual fights and injuries are immediately bond breaking and the piggies must be separated immediately and permanently.
Nothing will fix a broken bond.

(A full cage clean - that wipes scent from the cage and can make territorial issues even in a well bonded pair. This is why we recommend half cage cleans in teen boars. Cleaning a cage will not fix any issues between them if they are not compatible.
Bathing together is a very outdated and totally ineffective method. It will stress them and not fix a bond at all).

Separated piggies need to live side by side. Each cage needs to be a minimum of 120x60cm.

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

thank you! will see what I can do during today. I’ll check over them again for any scabs from possible fighting during the night.

 

[fluffysal]

Welcome to the forum. Separated boars can live very happy lives as neighbours. My own pair are recently separated as Mischievous Master Boris decided he was not happy being the underpig. He doesn't seem unhappy in his own space and Dignified Sir George is definitely a much happier boy now he isn't being constantly challenged.
How old are your boys? I am considering getting mine neutered so they can have a wife each as my cage is a 2x5x2 so big enough.

 

[gracie_n13]

Welcome to the forum. Separated boars can live very happy lives as neighbours. My own pair are recently separated as Mischievous Master Boris decided he was not happy being the underpig. He doesn't seem unhappy in his own space and Dignified Sir George is definitely a much happier boy now he isn't being constantly challenged.
How old are your boys? I am considering getting mine neutered so they can have a wife each as my cage is a 2x5x2 so big enough.

Id assume around a year old at most? I’m not completely sure.

 

[fluffysal]

Still teenagers then.

 

[gracie_n13]

I’m sorry to hear this.

The first thing is to be very clear on whether it’s dominance or whether there has been a fight. If you are finding blood and scabs then I am guessing an actual fight.

Dominance is normal - rumbling, chasing and mounting. All very normal behaviours in a functioning relationship and never a reason to separate.
It is very normal for bonded pairs to not cuddle up together. In itself doesn’t mean anything.

However an actual fight is rolling around aggression, bites and injuries. You say you are finding scabs and blood so I suspect this could be what has happened.

Actual fights and injuries are immediately bond breaking and the piggies must be separated immediately and permanently.
Nothing will fix a broken bond.

(A full cage clean - that wipes scent from the cage and can make territorial issues even in a well bonded pair. This is why we recommend half cage cleans in teen boars. Cleaning a cage will not fix any issues between them if they are not compatible.
Bathing together is a very outdated and totally ineffective method. It will stress them and not fix a bond at all).

Separated piggies need to live side by side. Each cage needs to be a minimum of 120x60cm.

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Thank you so much for your advice! I’ve spent my day cleaning up their outside hutch and attaching an openable door on the stairs so they have one level to themselves most of the day. Is there anyway I can slowly introduce them back to eachother? they seem stressed being around eachother all day. maybe 30 minutes in the outside run everyday? or is that not going to work at all? Id hate to separate them fully. Id feel like a bad mum. they’ve grown in the same area and been paired for a long time and I just really want to do as much as possible to mend their bond even slightly.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Sadly a fight means you have to separate them fully. You simply cannot fix a broken bond.
They can’t be introduced back to each other, in any space, at all if their bond is broken.
This means you need to either split their run with mesh down the middle if it’s big enough to do so or get a second run.
The main issue for your piggies is that for them to have had a fight means they no longer like each other, so putting them together at all would just result in another fight every time.
It sounds nice to still let them have playtime together but it just isn’t how piggies relationships and hierarchies work: they either get on and are together permanently on or they don’t get on can never share any territory.

Separated piggies must be side by side, not one up and one down. Side by side means they can still interact between the mesh 24/7 but never have to share a territory.
Unfortunately a double storey hutch won’t work for separated piggies because they are not side by side. The only solution when hutches are concerned is that you have two hutches and then for them to be positioned facing each other but even that is less than ideal - hutches don’t lend themselves to separated living. The recommended long term living solution for separates piggies to be in side by side cages with mesh between them at all times.
Each boar needing a minimum of 120x60cm as a single piggy.
The only way they can live one up and one down is for each piggy to be bonded with another piggy and they have their own new friend (whether that’s another boar or to be neutered and have a sow each (following the six week post neuter wait).

You certainly are not a bad pig owner - this isn’t your fault. With the best will in the world, the right amount of space (a 6ft hutch is needed for two boars to live together), all the multiple resources they could possibly need - if there is any underlying issue and incompatibility in their bond then it’s just not going to work out.
A bonded pair can occasionally get towards the end of their teens and then issues crop up. Moving to a new home can be a catalyst for an underlying issue to come to the surface; a new environment will cause them to reestablish their relationship - this happens in every pair regardless of how long they’ve been together - and that can just make an underlying tension or dominance struggle come to the surface.

I’m sorry it has happened - i know it’s not nice when it happens. One of my boar pairs fought and fell out when they were 18 weeks old. They turn 2 years next month and have lived side by side ever since the fight. One of them now does have a new cagemate in one of my 6 year old bereaved boar.

 

[exia]

Thank you so much for your advice! I’ve spent my day cleaning up their outside hutch and attaching an openable door on the stairs so they have one level to themselves most of the day. Is there anyway I can slowly introduce them back to eachother? they seem stressed being around eachother all day. maybe 30 minutes in the outside run everyday? or is that not going to work at all? Id hate to separate them fully. Id feel like a bad mum. they’ve grown in the same area and been paired for a long time and I just really want to do as much as possible to mend their bond even slightly.

I can really relate to the feeling of being a bad owner that cant make them live together!
We lost a boy last summer, and his friend was so lonely and sad. We tried to make him live as a neighbour with our bonded couple, but he was so stressed out we decided to split the neighbour-thing up and adopt him a friend. Well. They were friends for a month, and then they crashed. In my heart I really want them to live together, but people here on this forum reassured me that they are happy living side by side. And they are. It took a couple of months for them to relax side by side, but now they sweet talk in soft voices thorough the divider. They can share a snack to, and they can try to take each others. Sometimes they Rumble strutt but not as intense as they used to do. They always know where the other one are and if one is not at his home they can alarm at each other. They like each others as neighbours, but they dont want to share their space. Everytime we tried to rebound them they fight and we are back at square one with arguing through divider. With some reassurense from the Guinea pig-whisperers here on the forum I just had to accept the boys dont want to do as I want them to do. So, we have four boys, three cages and a constant Rumble strutt at home!