Fighting and separation anxiety?

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Belathepiggie

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Hello,

I have been trying to find a friend for my male (~2.5 year old) piggie, Casper. I found a sweet/troublemaker skinny pig and they did fairly well with introductions at the shelter, so we decided to try a foster-to-adopt. I started slow, switching dishes and hideouts then put them together in a neutral cage with a barrier between them. They did great, but the next time I gave them play time, they got into a fight. The skinny pig had a scratch down his back and Casper had a little scab on his nose. I know guinea pigs show dominance by nipping or pulling a bit of hair, but I'm confused. How do I know whether they're just trying to nip and show dominance? The skinny pig doesn't have fur to protect his skin, so how do I know whether it was an actual fight where they were intentionally trying to draw blood or if it was just nipping for dominance that drew blood because the skinny pig does have fur to protect his skin?

After that, I restarted and they were doing well again, but then they got into another fight (?) And Casper got some nasty scratches on the skinny pig. I cleaned them and they're healing. I've kept them separated for a few days, but I'm confused because they still talk to each other even from different cages. They wheek and squeak at each other (not sounds of aggression) back and forth like they're distressed at being apart. What?

Could they still bond together despite the fights? Why do they dislike being apart like that if they fight when they're together? Is it really fighting or is it a show of dominance that looks worse than it is because the skinny pig is more exposed and vulnerable? Help DX
 
When you say fighting, what exactly did they do? How long were they together at the shelter before you brought them home? It would have been better for you to do a proper intro when you brought them home, rather than interrupt it and do it slowly. They don’t do slow - it’s an all out and you see it to whatever conclusion it is, whether good or bad. And how did they behave when you removed the barrier on the first bonding?

When you put them together (both times) was it somewhere neither of them had been? You say you had a barrier. Did you just remove it and let them be together? And were there hides in the bonding area? And lastly, when the scratches occurred, was one in a hide (if there were any in there)? When you just remove the barrier, one pig going on the others’ side can be seen as an invasion of territory. This is not a good thing and can get a piggy ‘going’.

It possibly sounds like they do better as neighbours rather than living together though. Given you have tried twice and both times there have been scratches it doesn’t really sound like a good partnership.

PS please can you add your location to your profile. County/state or country will do. No specific things like zip code/postcode or address 😁
 
Oh jeez, I didn't even realize they could get territorial over neutral territory with the barrier. That's my fault--I feel guilty because my ignorance probably didn't set them up very well to begin with. I see the scratches and think "oh, God, this is never going to work, someone's going to get seriously hurt" and then I see them chatting and wheeking for each other for 5 minutes straight from different cages and think "what if they could be good friends but I'm just doing this wrong and ruining it?"

Casper is my guinea pig, but the shelter had me bring him in and see if they got along. It was on a table with sides in a blanket. They circled each other, sprayed a lot, mounted each other a few times, chattered once or twice, and did really long purrs but they weren't high pitched purrs like they were upset. Overall there didn't seem to be any "aggressive" behaviors, just dominance displays. They did the same thing during play time when I brought them home. This was in a neutral territory with hides, hay, and water. I removed the barrier and watched a few times. When they seemed to be doing well, I went to get a drink and came right back and the skinny pig had a bleeding scratch on his back. Neither was in a hide. From what I can tell, Casper (my piggy) seems to think he in the all-mighty dominant piggy in this scenario but the skinny pig, who seems younger, but I don't have an age, is kind of a turd. Even after this scratch, he was trying to mount Casper again in both instances where there was injury. I did not hear any sounds of distress and they were not showing signs of fear or pain as they kept going back to each other, circling, purring, mounting, the whole process. In fact, I didn't even notice the scratch for a minute.
Second time with the scratches was a similar scenario. Neither was in a hidey, they were calmly sitting in opposite corners. Looking back, they were probably just retreating to their respective "territories."
 
It sounds like they were trying to figure out who would be too pig. The issue is that there can only be one. Were either of them acting submissive - squeaking submissively, running, allowing themselves to be mounted and humped?

I'm not sure I would try them again given the scratching and mutual mounting. Did you see the guide I linked to above to see where they sat? Do you have an approximate age for the skinny?

The other thing to know (for future reference) is that when bonding there should be no hides in the (neutral) bonding area. Only a pile of hay and veg at their usual time.

How are the scratches looking?
 
Siikibam said:
It sounds like they were trying to figure out who would be too pig. The issue is that there can only be one. Were either of them acting submissive - squeaking submissively, running, allowing themselves to be mounted and humped?

I'm not sure I would try them again given the scratching and mutual mounting. Did you see the guide I linked to above to see where they sat? Do you have an approximate age for the skinny?

The other thing to know (for future reference) is that when bonding there should be no hides in the (neutral) bonding area. Only a pile of hay and veg at their usual time.

How are the scratches looking?
Click to expand...
Casper allowed the skinny pig to mount him several times without any signs of issues, but occasionally after the mounting Casper would nip at the other if he was trying to mount Casper again like "give me a break we've been through this already 🙄." The other one kept mounting him and I think he got very fed up with it and started biting at the skinny pig.

I can't see to find the guide but I believe the skinny pig is age unknown. The shelter seems to believe he's between 1 and 3 years old, I think they said 2-ish. He seems very young to me, maybe a year? He acts very juvenile not only in his interactions with Casper but also personality-wise and in his interactions with me.

The scratches are looking very good, I made sure to clean them immediately and now they've scabbed over and seem to be healing quickly. I don't think they were very deep. Again, I'm confused because I haven't noticed any typical aggressive behaviors between them other than the biting, and I've read that nipping to show dominance is normal but biting to draw blood is not. The wounds are pretty superficial, so how do I know if the intention was to draw blood or just get the skinny pig to back off (nipping)? Since the skinny pig has no fur nipping would probably still draw blood on him rather than take out fur because he doesn't have any fur.
 
As Siikibam has said the pen may have been neutral initially but as soon as you put up a divider and ut each piggy in each half of it, it became their territories and then just removing the divider that would have allowed the other piggy to wander into the other territory and that would be seen as an invasion and cause a fight.
Piggies either side of a divider can display dominance to make their territory - so any laying against the divider, rumbling each other through the divider etc

They needed to live in separate but side by side cages to get to know each other between the bars for a couple of days after you brought the foster/adopt piggy home. On bonding day, you needed to have taken them both into a neutral territory area (a completely different bonding pen, bathroom or kitchen floor even) and put them together with no hides (just hay and water) and left them together for several hours to see if they can get on.

I can see what you mean about him not having fur to protect himself but nipping is a dominance gesture and it allows the other piggy to feel the teeth but it does not break the skin.

The guides below may help you decipher what went on and whether having one last try in completely neutral territory is worth a go

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour
 
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