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Enucleation - information & Advice wanted

Merab

Merab

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This afternoon as I was syringe feeding Phoebe I noticed she had some swelling again near her eye.
She was on antibiotics since before Christmas, Azithromycin for 8 weeks.

Last week ( before noticeable swelling) I asked the vet if enucleation was an option as the antibiotics didn't seem to have made much difference.

Poor girl ended up with an upset tummy and squishy poos.
We stopped the antibiotics but kept her on Loxicom ( 0.35ml per day) and Calpol (0.2ml twice daily)
Despite syringe feeding she continues to lose weight and I am seriously thinking about whether enucleation would be a sensible option.
My vet wasn't keen as she felt that guinea pigs didn't react well to the sutures and kept worrying them.
I've read some of the stuff on the forum about enucleation but wanted some guidance.

I'm fairly certain there's something nasty in Phoebe's head so it's partly about not stressing her or putting her through unnecessary treatment if it's not going to help.

I'm looking for any help or experience that will help me make a decision.
She now weighs 948g - down from yesterday.
I will be phoning the vet on Monday morning.

Thanks
 
I’m sorry Phoebe is worrying you so much. I have no experience but wanted to offer support. I’m sure whatever decision you come to will be the right one for her.
 
Aw I hope she's OK bless her, I'm so sorry she isn't well. I dont have any direct experience, but when I took Forrest in the other day about his eye my vet did talk about enunciation and said how there seems to only be a 50/50 survival rate after, I cant remember what he said about the actual procedure but its not a simple one apparently.
That seems to line up with the experiences of people I know who have had to have their piggies eyes removed, seems about half didn't make it.

I'm normally of the opinion to throw the kitchen sink at something, however with 50/50 odds, unless your vet is more confident on survival (worrying sutures is usually from pain and a lot of vets massively underdose pain relief, and eye issues are already very painful so probably need even higher amounts) so if that is the only concern maybe discuss short term high doses of pain medication during recovery. But if low survival rate is also a concern I would personally not opt for surgery unless we were at the point of considering euthenasia.

But that's just my thoughts in regard to my own piggies, it's always such a difficult choice what to do when they're so poorly.
 
Debbie at TEAS has looked after lots of piggies that have had very successful eye removal procedures, both TEAS piggies and through her boarding post op care she gives which were carried out by Simon Maddock at the C&R she might be able to give you an idea of his success rate and @alpacasqueak piggie Jess had this successfully done too. Good luck for little Phoebe whatever you decide x
 
Oh no. So sorry to hear that Phoebe has something more going on.

I remember when Odin’s eye was protruding out of his head, and it was only then he started eating (probably because all of the painful pressure in his head had finally found a release and pushed its way out). We looked at enucleation as an option at C&R, but luckily he responded to antibiotics.

Debbie at TEAS and the wonderful vets at C&R really helped me lots during that time, and gave me fantastic advice.

I hope you can get some guidance for you both. We are here to offer support, always.
Let me know if there’s anything we can do to help.

Sending love to you and Phoebe 💕
 
Sending hugs and support to you and Phoebe. I am so sorry you are both going through this.
 
I’ve dealt with a lot of post op piggies, following enucleation surgery. All have recovered well! Some had their eye removed, due to retrobulbar abscess and in these cases the eye socket was left open to enable regular flushing. If the eye has been removed for other reasons, the socket has been sutured closed.

All piggies were eating well immediately after surgery!
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I’ve dealt with a lot of post op piggies, following enucleation surgery. All have recovered well! Some had their eye removed, due to retrobulbar abscess and in these cases the eye socket was left open to enable regular flushing. If the eye has been removed for other reasons, the socket has been sutured closed.

All piggies were eating well immediately after surgery!
Click to expand...

Sorry, I know it isn't my thread, just wanted to clarify were these all done at the Cat and Rabbit clinic?
Just for future reference in case Forrest ever does need an enuncleation.
 
Eriathwen said:
Sorry, I know it isn't my thread, just wanted to clarify were these all done at the Cat and Rabbit clinic?
Just for future reference in case Forrest ever does need an enuncleation.
Click to expand...

Yes, all the enucleation ops were done by Simon Maddock at the Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton.
 
My Meleri also need eye removal surgery (at the Cat&Rabbit) a year ago due a cataract causing a infection deep in the eye. She made a perfect recovery.
Please keep your fingers crossed for Meleri's eye removal operation!

I did lose an older so during an eye removal op in 2011 (not at the Cat&Rabbit and now a decade back while operation practice with small furries has noticeably improved) when her heart gave out at the end of the operation but at her age it was truly a last ditch make or break op since even strong antibiotics had failed and she was developing glaucoma (a hardened, bulging eye at risk of bursting). Older age is a problem with eye removal ops.
 
I am sorry poor Phoebe is having huge problems with her eye. I can't offer advice but send her lorry loads of healing vibes and support for you. We are all here for you whatever the outcome xx
 
In Austria it is pretty much standard procedure to remove the eye if there is fear that an abcess or tumor is behind the eye or if the eye is badly hurt. I heard of a number of piggies who came through this operation without difficulties.
But - and that's always a big but in cases like Phoebe's - sometimes what the vet finds behind the eye is the reason for this piggy to be PTS.

In my personal experience, I only had Chelsea who hurt one of her eyes badly and had an emergency operation to safe the eye. It was very successful, but yes the sutures where a problem. She had to be kept away form her partner for the healing time because the other piggies are usually going to lick or nibble at the eye (no harm intended, they are just trying to help) and Chelsea also scratched herself. But still everything healed well.
Usually antibiotics and pain medication have to be giving during the healing time and it will be pretty stressful for Phoebe and yourself.

I'm always a little worried if I decide to operate when my vet is reluctant to do so. Maybe you could go to a vet with experience with this kind of operation (probably a long trip for you). :(
 
I am so sorry that Phoebe isn’t well :(

My late Eliza had her eye removed at the age of 5 and she sailed through the surgery. She unfortunately contracted an infection in the socket so my vet left the socket open so I could flush it out and it healed from the inside out. Very upsetting at the time but Eliza managed very well with one eye x
 
Thanks everyone.
If, and it’s a big if, we decide to try enucleation I would ask for Molly Varga at Rutland House.
Travelling to Northampton simply isn’t an option.
Phoebe is 4 so not a very elderly piggy.
We’ll see how things go when I talk to the vet this week.

Your input is very helpful, as is the support :luv:
 
So sorry to hear that Phoebe is having trouble again. Holding you in my thoughts as you decide what course of action to take for her. It’s so tough having to make these kinds of decisions.
 
I'm sorry you are having to consider this operation Heather, but Phoebe is not old and if her eye is still bothering her and the strongest and longest courses of antibiotics have not really sorted things out... then I would speak to Molly at Rutland House, she is a brilliant piggy vet and very upfront about things- she will be very honest with you about Phoebe's chances of making a good recovery, but it does sound like many forum piggies have had this operation successfully.
Whatever decision you make will be the right one for Phoebe, made because you love her and don't like seeing her unwell x
 
So sorry to hear about beautiful Phoebe, really hope she’s ok bless her ❤️
Obviously I had Pedro the chin and Jess that both had enucleation surgery, by Simon at Cat and Rabbit, it went well for both as you know, just very different care afterwards (but Ped was a special case!)! My lovely Jess was 6+ at the time and sailed through, with a bit of top up feeding for a while (and the metacam and Zithromax she was on for a month), and if it weren’t for Luigi ‘helping’ with cleaning her stitches she’d have healed even faster than the fortnight I think the little trooper!
Really hope it’s not needed but wishing you and Phoebe lots of luck and sending lots of love and healing vibes from us all :hug:x
 
We have been to the vet again.
It’s now clearly diagnosed as a mass in her head so enucleation wouldn’t be a solution.
I’m relieved.

Vet has agreed to a higher dose of pain meds to keep her comfortable for as long as she has left.
I will use the Merab’s Herd thread for future updates, but I’m very grateful for the advice and support here which helped in making the decision.
 
Merab's Slave said:
We have been to the vet again.
It’s now clearly diagnosed as a mass in her head so enucleation wouldn’t be a solution.
I’m relieved.

Vet has agreed to a higher dose of pain meds to keep her comfortable for as long as she has left.
I will use the Merab’s Herd thread for future updates, but I’m very grateful for the advice and support here which helped in making the decision.
Click to expand...

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry that the news is not good and that you have to treat for a terminal issue. You will know when the time has come and the quality of life/zest for life is no longer there.
A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs
 
Oh Heather, I’m so sorry, sending absolutely ginormous hugs to you and your beautiful girl, so gutted for you. She’s got the best mum caring for her, hope you’ve got lots more happy times and that the extra metacam helps to make her more comfortable. Thinking of you both and sending lots of love and hugs ❤️ xx
 
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