Domination problem

[sprite1950]

I would like some advice please.

My two boys are aged 5 and 6. I got them a year apart as babies and except for a bit of chasing at the beginning they have always got on well.

Recently a friend of mine got 2 boys and after 3 months decided she didn't want them. I had been thinking of getting some more so l was happy to take them. They are 6 months old. The problem l have is one of the new boys is bullying one of my older boys. He constantly chases him and he has pulled bits of his hair out.

I was so worried about him as his whole character changed. He wouldn't come out if his hutch or eat and hid under his fleece. My other boy was not bothered by him and just ignored him.

They are in a big open top pen so l found some old cage bars and separated them. Thankfully his behavior has returned to normal. They can still see each other through the bars but my boy has realized he is safe now.

The problem is my new boy is still trying to dominate him through the bars. The noises, the slow threatening movements. It's been 10 days which l know isn't long but l would like them all to get along. The other new pig was fine with my old boys. He does take a bit of bullying from the dominant pig but is able to cope so l have left him in with him.

What should l do?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Boars can only ever be kept in pairs and by putting the two new ones in with your original two, it will have disrupted all the bonds.
Boars find is very hard to function and form a hierarchy when there is more than two and adding more boars to a bonded pair is usually a disaster and results in fights, separated and single piggies.
Also, the space requirements for anybody brave enough to attempt to keep more than two boars together (which we do not recommend) go far beyond normal cage sizing - they pretty much need a whole room to free roam to give enough space for them to get away from each other.

Three boars together also does not work.
You will need to separate them again and leave your oldest two piggies together as a pair as they always were provided they are still happy to be together.

With the two new boys, see if you can reintroduce them back to each other following the correct neutral territory bonding process. If so then also leave those two just as they are in a separate cage.
However, it is possible that by putting the four of them together the bond between the youngest two has been broken. The two 6 month old piggies may now refuse to live together. This means you will need three separate cages - the pair in one cage and two singles in two other cages.

Coming out of attempting a boar quartet usually results in a functioning pair of piggies and two singles. At worst, all bonds can be broken and you can end up with all four needing to be kept separate.

Single piggies will need their cages to be side by side so they can interact through the bars only.
The pair of older boys need a cage measuring 180x60cm to themselves.
The two single boys each need a cage measuring a minimum of 120x60cm.

The guides below explain more including the dos and donts with boar pairs

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[sprite1950]

Boars can only ever be kept in pairs and by putting the two new ones in with your original two, it will have disrupted all the bonds.
Boars find is very hard to function and form a hierarchy when there is more than two and adding more boars to a bonded pair is usually a disaster and results in fights, separated and single piggies.
Also, the space requirements for anybody brave enough to attempt to keep more than two boars together (which we do not recommend) go far beyond normal cage sizing - they pretty much need a whole room to free roam to give enough space for them to get away from each other.

Three boars together also does not work.
You will need to separate them again and leave your oldest two piggies together as a pair as they always were provided they are still happy to be together.

With the two new boys, see if you can reintroduce them back to each other following the correct neutral territory bonding process. If so then also leave those two just as they are in a separate cage.
However, it is possible that by putting the four of them together the bond between the youngest two has been broken. The two 6 month old piggies may now refuse to live together. This means you will need three separate cages - the pair in one cage and two singles in two other cages.

Coming out of attempting a boar quartet usually results in a functioning pair of piggies and two singles. At worst, all bonds can be broken and you can end up with all four needing to be kept separate.

Single piggies will need their cages to be side by side so they can interact through the bars only.
The pair of older boys need a cage measuring 180x60cm to themselves.
The two single boys each need a cage measuring a minimum of 120x60cm.

The guides below explain more including the dos and donts with boar pairs

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

The two new boys are still in together and the less dominant one is coping. I originally had 3 boars in together (one died) but they all got on fine. I have them inside at the moment as we are having a very hard winter here in the UK but in the summer l will be converting my garden into a huge guinea pig pen. I wonder if the extra space will work.

 

[Piggies&buns]

The two new boys are still in together and the less dominant one is coping. I originally had 3 boars in together (one died) but they all got on fine. I have them inside at the moment as we are having a very hard winter here in the UK but in the summer l will be converting my garden into a huge guinea pig pen. I wonder if the extra space will work.

Ok if they are in two pairs then leave then as that. Please don’t attempt to put them together as a four at all, not even with more space.
Boar quartets have a pretty much 100% failure rate where youngsters are involved.

Keep an eye on the two youngsters. Is their behaviour just normal dominance expected of teenagers? If so, then leave them to sort it out.
Bringing their from their previous home to your home is a change in territory and will cause them to reestablish their relationship. In a compatible pair, this involves a bit of extra dominance but should calm down (it takes around two weeks). In a pair where there are underlying issues, the move can bring them to the fore and break a bond.
If it is true bullying (the submissive one becomes withdrawn, is chased away from foods or hides, loses weight through not being able to eat enough etc). Either the bullied pig becomes withdrawn significantly or becomes so stressed they fight back. Either way, proper bullying is bond breaking

The behaviour you are seeing between the bars is that of territory marking. He is making it clear that that is his space and nobody else can be in it.

You were very lucky with your original boar trio! It is rather the exception to have a functioning trio. 90% of them fail.

 

[sprite1950]

Ok if they are in two pairs then leave then as that. Please don’t attempt to put them together as a four at all, not even with more space.
Boar quartets have a pretty much 100% failure rate where youngsters are involved.

Keep an eye on the two youngsters. Is their behaviour just normal dominance expected of teenagers? If so, then leave them to sort it out,
If it is true bullying (the submissive one becomes withdrawn, is chased away from foods or hides, loses weight through not being able to eat enough), then that is bond breaking and they must be separated.

The behaviour you are seeing between the bars is that of territory marking. He is making it clear that that is his space and nobody else can be in it.

You were very lucky with your original boar trio! It is rather the exception to have a functioning trio. 90% of them fail.

Okay thanks. I've already resigned myself to The fact the bars will be staying. My old boys are such friendly loving little men so l didn't realize this would happen. The new boys eat together but sleep separately and there is room for the less dominant pig to escape if necessary. He likes to be up high whereas the dominant pig doesn't. Eventually my older pigs will pass away but l wonder how the other will cope on his own when the first one goes. This is why l thought getting two young ones would be a good idea.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Okay thanks. I've already resigned myself to The fact the bars will be staying. My old boys are such friendly loving little men so l didn't realize this would happen. The new boys eat together but sleep separately and there is room for the less dominant pig to escape if necessary. He likes to be up high whereas the dominant pig doesn't. Eventually my older pigs will pass away but l wonder how the other will cope on his own when the first one goes. This is why l thought getting two young ones would be a good idea.

Not sleeping together is very normal - most piggies don’t.
As you do now have the younger pair, when one of your older ones passes the one who is left will need constant side by side interaction through the bars with the pair. This will stave off loneliness.

 

[sprite1950]

Not sleeping together is very normal - most piggies don’t.
As you do now have the younger pair, when one of your older ones passes the one who is left will need constant side by side interaction through the bars with the pair. This will stave off loneliness.

I will make sure this happens. Thanks for the advice

 

[Lady Kelly]

It's not impossible to have a boar trio in the future but it is highly unlikely. It really does come down to compatibility and it usually works better in calmer, older pigs whose hormone spikes are well and truly over. It may be something you want to reconsider when you are left with one alone however, each attempt to bond runs the risk of destroying the bond between well bonded pigs too and the worst case scenario is ending up with 3 single pigs. That needs to be weighed up against having a pair with one living alongside and having contact through the bars

 

[sprite1950]

It's not impossible to have a boar trio in the future but it is highly unlikely. It really does come down to compatibility and it usually works better in calmer, older pigs whose hormone spikes are well and truly over. It may be something you want to reconsider when you are left with one alone however, each attempt to bond runs the risk of destroying the bond between well bonded pigs too and the worst case scenario is ending up with 3 single pigs. That needs to be weighed up against having a pair with one living alongside and having contact through the bars

It's not impossible to have a boar trio in the future but it is highly unlikely. It really does come down to compatibility and it usually works better in calmer, older pigs whose hormone spikes are well and truly over. It may be something you want to reconsider when you are left with one alone however, each attempt to bond runs the risk of destroying the bond between well bonded pigs too and the worst case scenario is ending up with 3 single pigs. That needs to be weighed up against having a pair with one living alongside and having contact through the bars

While the bullying was going on my other boy protected his mate and slept across him as if to keep the dominant pig away. He was completely unaffected by the dominant behaviour even when it was directed at him. He just ignored it. They are all so different.