Dominant behaviour between my two 6 month old boars.

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

Hi everyone, I hope you all are doing good.

I got two 6 month old boars. A while ago one of my two boars started showing some dominant behaviours, (nose nipping, lunging, and mounting) everything seemed ok (my other one accepted him as the dominant) until my other baby decided to fight back. Today the dominated one teeth chattered and chased the dominant one around the cage. I decided to stop the chase when they started to lunge into each other. My fear is that when I'm not home they could have a bloody fight, I've had them for around 2 months and I thought they were bonded but thanks to hormones they brought out their adolescent behaviors.

So my question is, should I try to reintroduce them in a neutral space or wait until a fight gets on to reintroduce? Or should I just separate the cage in 2 ? I would really appreciate an advice.

 

[Piggies&buns]

While you don’t need to wait for a fight to happen before separating, you also shouldn’t step in too soon as some dominance behaviours are needed. It’s therefore about determining the level at the behaviours were. This guide will help you determine that.
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

This guide will also help you determine whether there is a problem between them.
Bonds In Trouble

If it is a hormone spike, then giving a couple of days apart to settle back down and then a neutral territory reintroduction can be carried out. The reintroduction will give them the choice of whether they want to be together.

How big is their cage? A boar pair need a 180x60cm (6ft x 2ft or a 5x2 grid cage). Lack of space can cause problems for a boar pair, but no amount of space will fix an incompatibility.

However, if their relationship is in trouble and do need to live separately, depending on the cage size, it may require an extension for the longer term. Each piggy as a single will need a 120x60cm (4ft x 2ft) cage to themselves.

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

While you don’t need to wait for a fight to happen before separating, you also shouldn’t step in too soon as some dominance behaviours are needed. It’s therefore about determining the level at the behaviours were. This guide will help you determine that.
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

This guide will also help you determine whether there is a problem between them.
Bonds In Trouble

If it is a hormone spike, then giving a couple of days apart to settle back down and then a neutral territory reintroduction can be carried out. The reintroduction will give them the choice of whether they want to be together.

How big is their cage? A boar pair need a 180x60cm (6ft x 2ft or a 5x2 grid cage). Lack of space can cause problems for a boar pair, but no amount of space will fix an incompatibility.

However, if their relationship is in trouble and do need to live separately, depending on the cage size, it may require an extension for the longer term. Each piggy as a single will need a 120x60cm (4ft x 2ft) cage to themselves.

Their cage is about 200cmx100cm so is quite big for them to run away from each other, I'm quite sure they're getting a hormone spike because they have never seem to fight over resources or even space (they even enjoy sleeping together time to time). Sadly I didn't introduce them when I first got them because I stole them from a cuy comsumption farm (they are pretty common here in Colombia), but as I said they never seemed anoyed of being together.

So as you say should I just wait until a fight gets on to separate them (I tought the dominance was sorted already ) ? Fortunately, I have more C&C grids to separate them by a wall, but keep them in the same space so they can still smell, hear and even see each other.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi everyone, I hope you all are doing good.

I got two 6 month old boars. A while ago one of my two boars started showing some dominant behaviours, (nose nipping, lunging, and mounting) everything seemed ok (my other one accepted him as the dominant) until my other baby decided to fight back. Today the dominated one teeth chattered and chased the dominant one around the cage. I decided to stop the chase when they started to lunge into each other. My fear is that when I'm not home they could have a bloody fight, I've had them for around 2 months and I thought they were bonded but thanks to hormones they brought out their adolescent behaviors.

So my question is, should I try to reintroduce them in a neutral space or wait until a fight gets on to reintroduce? Or should I just separate the cage in 2 ? I would really appreciate an advice.

Please wait for a couple of days for the hormone spike to die down and then re-introduce on neutral ground. If the bond is broken you should know very quickly. 6 months is the time when teenage hormones are at a lifetime high and one of the classic periods for fights and fall-outs.

Please take the time to read the guides below very carefully; they also tell you how to handle a re-intro exactly and have information on how the teenage months typically run. The guides take you through all the aspects of teenage and are very practical and step-by-step to allow you to work out the best solution for your own situation.

Things could still go either way in your case; the guides will give you the necessary information so you can navigate the tricky situation as best as possible as you go along.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

Please wait for a couple of days for the hormone spike to die down and then re-introduce on neutral ground. If the bond is broken you should know very quickly. 6 months is the time when teenage hormones are at a lifetime high and one of the classic periods for fights and fall-outs.

Please take the time to read the guides below very carefully; they also tell you how to handle a re-intro exactly and have information on how the teenage months typically run. The guides take you through all the aspects of teenage and are very practical and step-by-step to allow you to work out the best solution for your own situation.

Things could still go either way in your case; the guides will give you the necessary information so you can navigate the tricky situation as best as possible as you go along.
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Thanks for replying, I may also add that they are litter brothers (wich can make more difficult to bond them because they hit the hormonal age at the same time), so they have always lived together. I have a pretty big cage and 3 of everything so they never fight over resources, the behaviour started today and was a sudden actitude.

 

[Siikibam]

Being related has no bearing on whether they bond. It’s all about liking each other. It’s just the hormone surge that takes over. Hopefully a couple of days separation will do the trick. Good luck.

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

Being related has no bearing on whether they bond. It’s all about liking each other. It’s just the hormone surge that takes over. Hopefully a couple of days separation will do the trick. Good luck.

Should I wait until they really fight to separate or should I just do it now (I just found a old wound in the ear of one of them)? I've read all the threads you recommended and it seems they were already bonded (they cuddled together, washed in front of each other, etc). But the dominance fighting started today, I don't want to separate them (even if they can still see eachother) but I will do everything for them to be fine.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Should I wait until they really fight to separate or should I just do it now (I just found a old wound in the ear of one of them)? I've read all the threads you recommended and it seems they were already bonded (they cuddled together, washed in front of each other, etc). But the dominance fighting started today, I don't want to separate them (even if they can still see eachother) but I will do everything for them to be fine.

We aren’t talking a permanent separation at this point and therefore you don’t wait for a fight. As explained above, please give them a couple of days separated now to let the hormone spike settle down. After a few days, carry out a neutral territory reintroduction and let them make the decision. If all goes well upon reintroduction, then that is great and they can be moved back into their cage (although you will need to keep an eye on things in case there is a further escalation. There is another big hormone spike at around 9/10 months of age).
If not and they no longer want to be together, then they will be issues almost straight away upon neutral territory reintroduction. This is the sign that they cannot remain together any longer.
Incompatibilities can come to light once they hit their teens so being fine together as youngsters isn’t necessarily a reliable sign that everything will be well going forward.

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

We aren’t talking a permanent separation at this point and therefore you don’t wait for a fight. As explained above, please give them a couple of days separated now to let the hormone spike settle down. After a few days, carry out a neutral territory reintroduction and let them make the decision. If all goes well upon reintroduction, then that is great and they can be moved back into their cage (although you will need to keep an eye on things in case there is a further escalation. There is another big hormone spike at around 9/10 months of age).
If not and they no longer want to be together, then they will be issues almost straight away upon neutral territory reintroduction. This is the sign that they cannot remain together any longer.
Incompatibilities can come to light once they hit their teens so being fine together as youngsters isn’t necessarily a reliable sign that everything will be well going forward.

Ok I just separated them, they seem ok right now. In case the bonding isn't successfull in some days, will they be fine psychologically, by living together separated by a c&c wall?

 

[Wiebke]

Ok I just separated them, they seem ok right now. In case the bonding isn't successfull in some days, will they be fine psychologically, by living together separated by a c&c wall?

Yes, they will be fine as long as they can have full communication by scent, body language and sound for constant mutual stimulation. We have got quite a number of members with 'can't live together and can't live apart' boar pairs who are still having a relationship through the bars but each their own territory.

You can find more information on your various options in the green links in this thread; you may find it helpful to read them in the meantime.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ok I just separated them, they seem ok right now. In case the bonding isn't successfull in some days, will they be fine psychologically, by living together separated by a c&c wall?

Yes, living as neighbours is an acceptable living solution. They will still be able to see and smell each other ans therefore have interaction through the bars to stop loneliness.

I hope the reintroduction is successful and things settle doan

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

Thanks for clearifying my questions, I will update here when I reintroduce them on sunday. Cheers.

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

Little update: I took them yesterday to the vet because my little "Fisgón" (which means snoop in English) had a swollen belly a week ago (he is 100% healthy right now). I'm a bit undecided on what to do, as you can see on the pic below they are living side by side sharing a hay area where they can eat and interact between each other, they seem a lot happier now and even popcorn when smelling each other's butts. The vet told me just as you said, that I could try to reintroduce them and depending on each other's personalities they would decide if they can live together, but, I don't want them to fight and that because of that they couldn't even live as neighbors. Should I try and don't give up on their relationship or should I let them be? Would really love an advice.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m a bit confused what you mean as to why they couldn’t even live as neighbours. Two piggies who cannot live in the same cage must live as neighbours to have interactions through the bars. They can’t fight if they cant get to each other. They each need a hay pile in their own cage.

Yes i absolutely would try to reintroduce them and see how things go.

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

I’m a bit confused what you mean as to why they couldn’t even live as neighbours. Two piggies who cannot live in the same cage must live as neighbours to have interactions through the bars. They can’t fight if they cant get to each other. They each need a hay pile in their own cage.

Yes i absolutely would try to reintroduce them and see how things go.

What I meant is that if it is posible that they could live stressed living as neighbors. Right now they are pretty happy living as this, but I'll try to reintroduce them today. Also I'm confused because the vet told me to try to reintroduce them 3 times if the first ends successfully, but as I read in the recommended threads the introduction should be once.

 

[Piggies&buns]

What I meant is that if it is posible that they could live stressed living as neighbors. Right now they are pretty happy living as this, but I'll try to reintroduce them today. Also I'm confused because the vet told me to try to reintroduce them 3 times if the first ends successfully, but as I read in the recommended threads the introduction should be once.

They won’t be stressed living as neighbours.

You are right reintroduction is done only one.

If the reintroduction goes well, then they must remain together. Please do not separate them after a successful reintroduction as all that achieves is interrupting the reestablishing of their bond.
If it goes badly, then it’s conclusive that they cannot remain together and will see to live as neighbours.

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

They won’t be stressed living as neighbours.

You are right reintroduction is done only one.

If the reintroduction goes well, then they must remain together. Please do not separate them after a successful reintroduction as all that achieves is interrupting the reestablishing of their bond.
If it goes badly, then it’s conclusive that they cannot remain together and will see to live as neighbours.

Aight I will reintroduce them today, also I have three of everything for them so they don't fight over resources, but do you think the 4x6 C&C cage is enough for both of them? Right now they are living as you can see in the pictures in a 3x4.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes a 4x6 c&c is perfect. We recommend a pair of boars have a 5x2 c&c but anything bigger than that is fantastic for them.
My own boar pair live in the equivalent of just over a 5x6 and love it!

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

I am introducing them right now. They have been together for about 30 minutes without showing any kind of serious agression, the brown one ("Panchito") apparently is the most dominant now, he has been nose nipping Fisgón all around the cage, they started with some teeth chattering but when Panchito nose nipped Fisgón he started to make a submissive sound (like crying). Then Panchito started licking Fisgón ears and mouth, also they are comfortable enough with each other to clean them self and eat some lettuce. Right now they are now quiet eating hay. I will live them together for more time in the neutral area while my girlfriends clean their cage. I'm a bit confused because neither of them really mounted the other one there just was some nose nipping, teeth chattering and butt smelling but nothing more. Can you please tell me what they might be thinking @Wiebke @Piggies&buns.

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

As you can see they are eating hay together, now Panchito nose kicks Fisgón just when he gets waaay to close. I forgot to ask will they get fine in their final cage or is there a chance that they could fight there ?

 

[Wiebke]

It sounds very much on the mild and friendly side, so they still want to be best friends.
If they hadn't thing would have rather quickly escalated in terms of hostility. This is the best way of getting an honest answers out of piggies as to whether they still get on or not.

You just can't do it all the time because it can then turn into an added stress factor on an already stressed bond.

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

It sounds very much on the mild and friendly side, so they still want to be best friends.
If they hadn't thing would have rather quickly escalated in terms of hostility. This is the best way of getting an honest answers out of piggies as to whether they still get on or not.

You just can't do it all the time because it can then turn into an added stress factor on an already stressed bond.

Thank God and the universe forums like this and people like all of you exists to guide us in our constant learning with our babies. Right now I'm waiting till my gf cleans and re-arranges the entire cage. They are now relaxing after eating some hay.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank God and the universe forums like this and people like all of you exists to guide us in our constant learning with our babies. Right now I'm waiting till my gf cleans and re-arranges the entire cage. They are now relaxing after eating some hay.

Just what you want to see!

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

Last update: First at all I want to thank @Wiebke and @Piggies&buns for giving us knowledge and advices on what is the best for our piggies. My babies are lying down together in their "new" cage, I will be adding their hideys and tunnels progressively as I saw in a bonding video. You can now close this thread and I will update in a new one in case something happens. Thanks again and I send you all my best wishes.

Oh I almost forgot, should I let them be for today or when can I be with them again (lap time, giving them hugs, etc)? I know that I must always take and give food to the dominant one.

PD: Here's a picture of my babies and their new cage .

 

[Siikibam]

Make sure that all hides have two exits. I’m glad it’s gone well.

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

So, I decided to sleep with them last night in case something went wrong. There were just some chasing from the boss pig (Panchito) to the underboss, and some small teeth chattering from the underboss to the boss. Right now they are lying together in a hutch I added (with two entrances).

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

Also, how can I know if the chasing is getting way out of hands, and that the underboss can't live with the boss? Right now there is some chasing but nothing too serious, just letting him know which are his things.

 

[Siikibam]

Chasing is normal. If the underpig doesn’t like it then you would see him not accepting being mounted, chased, humped etc. He may try and face the top pig. Remember they will take two weeks to establish the hierarchy again, even if they were together before. You also have to remember that they’re in their teens. There will be more hormone surges (can happen beyond teens as well).

Have a read of the guide about boars and also the levels of dominance in order of aggression.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[Panchito & Fisgon's Dad.]

Well the underpig doesn't seem to fight back, just some nipping sometimes to tell the boss to stop (because sometimes he gets way too excited running around the cage and getting him out of his hideys or hay racks). But they seem good so far, sleeping together, eating hay together, and normal dominance behaviour (the boss trying to own everything and making the little white one to away). Here's a 1 min video of them eating (Had to compress it).

 

[Siikibam]

It’s normal for the top pig to have the pick of hides and bottles etc. And it’s good that the underpig is accepting his position.