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Diarrhea, Fluid in Lower Abdomen and Now No Poop

akatsuki

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I'm from Hong Kong. I have a dental piggy, Oreo, who lost his lower incisors last summer and subsequently developed badly grown molars early this year. He gets his teeth trimmed monthly.

On 22 June I saw spots of blood on his pee pad. The next day there's only very pale spots of pink, and we went to his usual vet who took xray of his bladder confirming no stone. He was prescribed trimethoprim ( which I supplemented with probiotics) and meloxiam. He starts to have gradually more intensive orange pee, some were bright orange spots. His last dose of trimethoprim was on on 29 June, and his vet advised that he no longer need antibiotics. After having antibiotics, his poop looked thin and dry, but on 30 June, his poop drastically became moist and soft.

On 3 July in early morning, I saw a large patch of diarrhea (paste of poop) with liquid sitting on top. His usual vet was fully booked and I took him to another cavy savy emergency vet.

The emergency vet found his temperature (39.x degree c) normal, and his heart, lungs and molars appeared normal. However, his lower abdomen was so filled with fluid that when he squished it it made a sound of fluid flowing inside. He was diagnosed as enteritis (I think that is the term, it was the intestinal inflammation). He was hospitalised and had to get blood and stool test. He will receive sub q and medicine injection (including painkillers, general antibiotics and gastrointestinal antibiotics). Vet estimated that his chance of survival is 50%, and he will have to be hospitalised for 3 to 4 days or until his poops take shape.

So today (4 July) his nurse reported that he looked less dull, and vet felt that there was slightly less fluid in his abdomen but still no poop forming. Vet also advised not to feed him any critical care last night, but very diluted critical care this morning, he was willing to eat some. He did not eat any hay or pellet. He did not poop or peep all night. There was a small spot of blood on his pee pad, and the vet found a small conjugated lump of blood in his sac (nurse told me it was bleeding of the intestinal wall).

Because my usual vet is not 24-hour, I asked the emergency vet to take his case and opt not to be handled by the usual vet. The only way to treat the pig, as the vet suggested although I asked about any other possible treatment such as operation, is to continue giving sub q and medicine injection until all fluid in his abdomen is passed from his body.

I visited Oreo today and he trembled and heaved a bit, but would eat 1 small tablet of his favourite treat (vitamin c tablet). Without a hideout he would turn to face the wall (had to take it away to feed him the tablet) and he looked a bit more comfortable in his rather dark hideout. Before his nurse signed off, she reported that he peed a bit and had taken some hay back to his hideout (not sure if he has eaten though). Still no poop but no longer saw any spot of blood.

I am looking for any of your piggy's experience like Oreo's (diarrhea, fluid in abdomen, and no poop), your vet's diagnosis, and his treatment. To my knowledge, the emergency vet is quite a prestigious figure (he was a contributor of the "pink book"), so I do not doubt his diagnosis, but I saw he wrote in some of his Instagram posts about the difference between US and EU treatments (him being EU). I would like to know if other vets would treat the same problem in a different way or add in additional treatments.

Thanks for any input in advance!
 
I’m sorry your boy is unwell. I have no experience with fluid or diarrhoea. However, if he is not eating then he MUST be syringe fed. He should also be weighed once daily to check if he’s getting enough top up. The recommended is minimum 60ml over a 24 hour period.

The lack of poo is because he’s not been eating (enough). Bear in mind that poo output is 1-2 days behind.

I’ll tag @Wiebke @PigglePuggle @VickiA @Piggies&buns hopefully they can help you with the rest.
 
Hi
Unfortunately, we cannot tell you what is wrong with your piggy (in view of you living in a much hotter and more humid climate) but whatever it is you are dealing with, it is crucial that you keep your boy feed with food which is ideally based on hay fibre (recovery formula like Critical Care) or soaked and mushed pellets in a pinch. Hay makes at least three quarters what guinea pigs eat in a day, and it is this crucial hay fibre, which needs two runs through the gut to break down that you need to replace. Guinea pigs cannot fast or their gut will slow and shut down. No output means no input in the last 24 hours, since it takes food on average about 22 hours to pass through the digestive system from one end to the other.

In order to find out whether one of the real nasty bugs is causing the infection, you may need a lab test. We have unfortunately comparatively little own experience with cases like yours since they are more common in hotter climates than the UK, where our forum is based although we have members from all over the world. But as the fluid in the gut has reduced, it doesn't look like a blockage.

Here are some practical care and medical information links that you may find helpful:
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

Digestive Disorders: Not Eating - Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) (practical care advice)
Guinea Lynx :: Diarrhea (medical avenues)

Please take the time to read the links; they should hopefully help you towards getting your piggy through the crisis.
Fingers very firmly crossed!
 
I'm very sorry ypur piggy is so ill, @Wiebke has given you excellent advice there on supporting his gut function.
In terms of diagnosis, really your vet needs to take a fresh poo sample and/or swab from the rectum and test for bacteria, protozoa, and parasites.
Xrays and an ultrasound scan are also needed to get a better idea what is going on in the abdomen. There are many parasitic diseases we rarely see in the UK in guinea pigs which may be more common in your country, including some that affect humans and may have accidentally infected piggy through some dodgy salad perhaps if the irrigation water was contaminated. There is also a possibility of some type of cancer perhaps- or, it may be that the antibiotics just wiped out piggy's gut bacteria and things will resolve with probiotics and support feeding.
Best of luck, but we cant even speculate really just based on symptoms, proper diagnostics are needed here to understand what is going on x
 
Hi
Unfortunately, we cannot tell you what is wrong with your piggy (in view of you living in a much hotter and more humid climate) but whatever it is you are dealing with, it is crucial that you keep your boy feed with food which is ideally based on hay fibre (recovery formula like Critical Care) or soaked and mushed pellets in a pinch. Hay makes at least three quarters what guinea pigs eat in a day, and it is this crucial hay fibre, which needs two runs through the gut to break down that you need to replace. Guinea pigs cannot fast or their gut will slow and shut down. No output means no input in the last 24 hours, since it takes food on average about 22 hours to pass through the digestive system from one end to the other.

In order to find out whether one of the real nasty bugs is causing the infection, you may need a lab test. We have unfortunately comparatively little own experience with cases like yours since they are more common in hotter climates than the UK, where our forum is based although we have members from all over the world. But as the fluid in the gut has reduced, it doesn't look like a blockage.

Here are some practical care and medical information links that you may find helpful:
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment

Digestive Disorders: Not Eating - Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) (practical care advice)
Guinea Lynx :: Diarrhea (medical avenues)

Please take the time to read the links; they should hopefully help you towards getting your piggy through the crisis.
Fingers very firmly crossed!
Thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately he has been hospitalised since 3 July and will not be discharged anytime soon. So I currently have no control over what the pig eats.

Today I did raise the issue about food and nutrition with his nurse, and if injecting nutrition is possible even though we know that the vet asked for few meals of very diluted critical care. But the nurse said no they would not. He has readily available hay and pellets in his enclosure, and the nurse noted that he has picked them up and took back to his hideout, but the actual amount he consumed is unknown.
Will see if he has any poop tomorrow.
 
I’m sorry your boy is unwell. I have no experience with fluid or diarrhoea. However, if he is not eating then he MUST be syringe fed. He should also be weighed once daily to check if he’s getting enough top up. The recommended is minimum 60ml over a 24 hour period.

The lack of poo is because he’s not been eating (enough). Bear in mind that poo output is 1-2 days behind.

I’ll tag @Wiebke @PigglePuggle @VickiA @Piggies&buns hopefully they can help you with the rest.
That would be what I do if I nurse him at home. He is a chronic dental piggy and he gets 3 meals of critical care a day before this happens.

He is now hospitalised and taken care of at the clinic since 3 July.
Vet asked for few meals of very diluted critical care. As far as I was told he had 2 meals today, but they did not told me exactly how much.
 
I'm very sorry ypur piggy is so ill, @Wiebke has given you excellent advice there on supporting his gut function.
In terms of diagnosis, really your vet needs to take a fresh poo sample and/or swab from the rectum and test for bacteria, protozoa, and parasites.
Xrays and an ultrasound scan are also needed to get a better idea what is going on in the abdomen. There are many parasitic diseases we rarely see in the UK in guinea pigs which may be more common in your country, including some that affect humans and may have accidentally infected piggy through some dodgy salad perhaps if the irrigation water was contaminated. There is also a possibility of some type of cancer perhaps- or, it may be that the antibiotics just wiped out piggy's gut bacteria and things will resolve with probiotics and support feeding.
Best of luck, but we cant even speculate really just based on symptoms, proper diagnostics are needed here to understand what is going on x
For our visit to the usual vet on his bloody pee on 23 June, he got full body xray, and ultrasound specifically on the bladder.
So the current emergency vet said no xray is needed.

His blood test back in Dec 2021 suggested that he is at high risk of cancer.
But I think the current vet would rule that out due to the problem being fluid.

He supposedly had blood test and lab test for stool yesterday, but the clinic has yet to report those to me.

I have BeneBac at home, so I did mention to the nurse if it is suggested to feed him probiotics, but she said that it is best not to for now, and the vet's first priority would be passing out all fluid.

On one hand, I really want to trust the judgment of the vet about cutting on critical care and treating through subq and medicine injection.
On the other hand, I would also want to ask for his usual vet's opinion. But Oreo is too weak to be discharged or moved around, and his usual vet does not have hospitalisation service.
So I am kind of stuck with the current emergency vet.
 
You are doing all you can and are very caring owner; please do not feel guilty or like you are failing him. :(

Concentrate on meditating and send him healing vibes and your gentle love.
 
You are doing all you can and are very caring owner; please do not feel guilty or like you are failing him. :(

Concentrate on meditating and send him healing vibes and your gentle love.
I really appreciate your kind words in such a hard time.
I have been struggling with his dental problem for a year now, which is equally as suffering for the pig and me.
Although it would be sad if he could not recover, it would be a relief for him from all these struggles. As much as he loves his food, it is painful to not be able to live an enjoyable and healthy life.
 
Is is free fluid in the abdomen or is it in the digestive tract and just not coming out? Itks not quite the same, but when one of my piggies had bloat, she used a form of acupuncture (using B12 injections, not leaving needles in) to help her release some of the gas. She ended up going under anaesthesia, as well, to draw out gas with a needle/syringe, as well, but it did help some of what was trapped come out. It was apparently a similar technique to what's used to help an egg bound bird. Your vet would probably need to be familiar with the practice to try it, but I figured I'd mention it, since you were looking for different options.

Side note, be careful with giving vitamin C tablets. Usually a guinea pig can get adequate vitamin C from what's added to pellets and is naturally in their veggies, but by giving vitamin C tablets, you get their body accustomed to an artificially high level of vitamin C, which then cannot be decreased with risk of scurvy at what would otherwise be a normal level of vitamin C. If your piggy has already been getting these tablets, though, it may be risky to remove them for just that reason.
 
@Siikibam @Wiebke @PigglePuggle
Just an update about the pig for all you very kind people.
This morning the vet noted his tummy is significantly less fluid-ly and feel more solid.
He has 1 single soft poop. 😆
His temperature dropped to 37C, as compared to 39C on the first day and 40C yesterday. They moved him to a warmer room (28C).

Thank you again for all your advice and kind words. 🙂
Sometimes I think to myself maybe I am not in need for any further advice and just trust the vet.
I am just in need for support and somewhere to vent my frustration in a place with people going through similar issues.
 
Is is free fluid in the abdomen or is it in the digestive tract and just not coming out? Itks not quite the same, but when one of my piggies had bloat, she used a form of acupuncture (using B12 injections, not leaving needles in) to help her release some of the gas. She ended up going under anaesthesia, as well, to draw out gas with a needle/syringe, as well, but it did help some of what was trapped come out. It was apparently a similar technique to what's used to help an egg bound bird. Your vet would probably need to be familiar with the practice to try it, but I figured I'd mention it, since you were looking for different options.

Side note, be careful with giving vitamin C tablets. Usually a guinea pig can get adequate vitamin C from what's added to pellets and is naturally in their veggies, but by giving vitamin C tablets, you get their body accustomed to an artificially high level of vitamin C, which then cannot be decreased with risk of scurvy at what would otherwise be a normal level of vitamin C. If your piggy has already been getting these tablets, though, it may be risky to remove them for just that reason.
Thank you for sharing! Acupuncture is one of the alternative treatment I have in my mind to actively release the fluid rather than passively waiting for him to poop.
I guess it would only happen if I switch to another vet.
The fluid seems to be in the digestive tract I suppose? Because the vet emphasised a few times the only way out is for the pig to poop it all out.
But it takes time, and we are now day 3 into his treatment.

The vitamin c tablets I gave him only contains 7mg per tablet so I think he can hardly overdose on them.
He usually get 3 to 4 throughout the day as a snack.
 
That is great news! Is the nurse feeding more now as he urgently needs feed?
 
While they’re ill, it is okay to give vitamin c supplement. But when they are well, giving it could lead to issues in that their ‘normal’ levels increase. So if it drops below that they can experience symptoms of vitamin c deficiency. There’s vitamin c in hay, grass, some veg and the pellets. So I would look at weaning him off it once he’s back to full health.

Glad to hear he’s done a poop and is doing better as well. You must be so relieved!
 
@Wiebke @Siikibam
Back with bad news.
After my last update, I went to visit him during my lunch break. He could not support himself up and would not eat the vit c tablet.
I knew what was coming, and gave him all comforting words I could. Telling him I was there with him, all pains were going away, and it was okay for him to rest if that was what he wanted.
Then I talked to his vet. Other than burden on his kidneys and low on electrolytes, his blood test seemed fine. He was not as dehydrated, they stopped subq.
They said his condition was not looking good, and was not optimistic about him recovering. They were ready to discharge him as he no longer needed subq and could switch to mouth-fed medicine. Meaning hospice at home.
I scheduled to bring him home at 4pm. But he was gone at around 3:50.
I was really devastated, but I knew the vet and nurses did their best for Oreo's final days.
But it all came too suddenly. His funeral is scheduled tomorrow and I am glad my mom and dad are coming along for support.
 
@Wiebke @Siikibam
Back with bad news.
After my last update, I went to visit him during my lunch break. He could not support himself up and would not eat the vit c tablet.
I knew what was coming, and gave him all comforting words I could. Telling him I was there with him, all pains were going away, and it was okay for him to rest if that was what he wanted.
Then I talked to his vet. Other than burden on his kidneys and low on electrolytes, his blood test seemed fine. He was not as dehydrated, they stopped subq.
They said his condition was not looking good, and was not optimistic about him recovering. They were ready to discharge him as he no longer needed subq and could switch to mouth-fed medicine. Meaning hospice at home.
I scheduled to bring him home at 4pm. But he was gone at around 3:50.
I was really devastated, but I knew the vet and nurses did their best for Oreo's final days.
But it all came too suddenly. His funeral is scheduled tomorrow and I am glad my mom and dad are coming along for support.

BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry but glad that Oreo is no longer in pain and discomfort. You did all you could for him but please accept that we can never choose when and in what form the end comes for anyone we love, whatever the species. We can only ever make the time with them a good one on a daily basis. Oreo could not have found a more loving owner, so you haven't failed him in any way.
Unfortunately, when it comes to the end and despite their their big personalities, guinea pigs are only small animals with a very fast metabolism, as I know myself only too well - and what he was fighting was sadly a very serious illness and condition. It was always very much an effort against the odds as to whether he would be able to pull through or not. :(

Please be kind to yourself and give yourself time to grieve.
Here is our grieving guide for guinea pig owners, which may help you make more sense of what you are experiencing and may help you with your grieving process with some practical tips at certain stages: Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

We do have a Rainbow Bridge section available on this forum for all those members who would like to post a tribute to their piggies and leave a more endurable reminder of their lives. There is no compulsion to post at all since it doesn't suit everybody; but it is there for anybody who feel at any time that it is right them.
 
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