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Dental issue? (images included)

G

GWWTPig

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Hello,

I am hoping that someone here might be able to provide a second opinion on whether or not we are dealing with a dental issue or something completely different.

Backstory
Wally (almost 3 years) has been slowing losing weight and muscle mass over the past several weeks, however, his weight really hasn't been stable since November/December of last year. He recently lost his cage mate back on December 15th of 2024 and we had to get him another mate shortly after due to him being depressed. Wally and his new cage mate Teddy did not get along at first and needed to be seperated as there was constant fighting (Teddy was the instigator). Wally did have two different bite wounds as a result of these fights that needed to be flushed and was given SMZ-TMP for 10 days during the first part of January. His wounds healed without issues and he seemed fine throughout the rest of January along with February.

Recently, we have been noticing that he hasn't been eating any of his pellets and has been hiding along with grinding his teeth. He is a picky eater so we figured it was probably a bad bag. Purchased another bag of the same brand (Oxbow) he still will not touch it. Teddy his other cage mate doesn't have a problem with the pellets. He seems to be eating his hay just fine (timothy and orchard) though less of it.

He was taken to our normal vet back on 3/13 to have his teeth looked at as we have had piggies in the past with molar problems. Vet looked at his mouth and didn't see any issues with the length of the molars and/or abcesses. They took an xray of his teeth as well and didn't find anything wrong to their knowlege. They tried to get a blood sample, but weren't sucessful. They gave him some Metcam for about 10 days to see if that would help with the pain. He was still grinding his teeth, but not as frequent.

Fast forward to the middle of this week, he has been hiding alot more now and was shaking terribly when being held. Started feeding him critical care on Wednesday as you can tell he has lost alot of muscle mass. He saw the vet again yesterday and they took a full xray this time to rule out URI/UTI. Everything looks good along with his stomach. They advised that we try SMZ-TMP for about a week to rule out a possible infection along with continuing Metcam. In addition, they referred him to a specialist, however, getting into them is like a week or more out as of right now. They will get back to us on Monday with hopefully a better schedule, but there aren't too many places within Minnesota (United States) that handle Guinea Pigs. Don't want to be paying money for the same stupid tests at this point with another vet.

I did ask our vet about it possibly being scurvy as some of the symptoms do match including him ocassional hopping on his hind legs. They didn't believe it to be scurvy, but said that giving him Vitamin C wouldn't hurt. The reason why I bring scurvy up is that I am not sure he getting enough Vitman C in his diet right now.

Romaine and Leafy Green
Parsley
Cucumbers
Wheat Grass
Pellets
Carrots
Hay (timothy and orchard)

// Picture of Teeth
https://imgur.com/a/aRgE7nM

// Radiograph
https://imgur.com/a/OlWnqsM

// x-ray
https://imgur.com/a/cVua6PU
 
I’m sorry to hear this.

Can I confirm that Wally and teddy do not live in the same cage given they had a fight which caused injury?
While health issues need to be ruled out first, I just wanted to check that they aren’t together (a fight would be considered a failed bond) so we can totally rule out bullying as a reason for his change and weight loss.

Generally speaking where a piggy has a dental issue, they will find eating hay quite tricky (can’t chew it properly) (but may well still eat some) as the issue progresses untreated, they drop food, struggle to pick food up. Although grinding teeth can suggest discomfort in the mouth area.
If he is still perfectly able to chew hard items like hay and carrot though then I wonder whether that makes a dental issue less likely. Pellets can go soft in the mouth so they can tend to prefer them as an easier option but you say it is the pellets he isn’t eating.
It is of course not conclusive - a dental issue can be small, cause discomfort but he may be able to manage around it enough for it to not be progressing too fast - but just as a general observation.

Hopefully the specialist will be able to help.

While you are waiting for the specialist, switch to daily weight checks and top up feeds with critical care to stop further weight loss.
Check his heft as per the guides below.

Regarding the vitamin c - piggies with a healthy balanced diet do not usually get scurvy and don’t need to be supplemented. It is rare to see scurvy in well kept piggies. Any hopping could be a general sign of pain in the back end and not just scurvy.
Now you have started to supplement please only give it for two weeks and then stop.
Giving supplementation above and beyond the diet for long term is where we actually see problems being caused.
Excess vit c is simply excreted in the urine so if he is already getting enough then what you are supplementing will just come straight back out.
More concerningly, Supplementation given long term runs the risk of being where we see issues . Where we do see cases of scurvy (which is hardly ever) on the forum they are usually in piggies who have been long term supplemented. Their bodies get used to abnormally high amounts of vit c and if for any reason that supplementation drops or stops then scurvy symptom - the level has become too low from what their individual body has become used (even though the level in any other pig would be considered normal) and it results in scurvy.

I would just say regarding the veg portion of his diet that parsley is high in calcium so shouldn’t be fed often (no more than one sprig once a week), and carrot is high in sugar and doesn’t need to be in the diet as anything other than an occasional treat.
The four safe daily veg which provide a good balance of nutrients and form the basis for the vet part of the diet that most of us feed is - lettuce, bell pepper, cucumber and cilantro. Other items can be added in rotation and moderation.

I’ve added some guides below which explain everything further.
The signs of pain guide also detailing further why vit c supplementation should not be done for long.

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/weight-monitoring-and-management.171577/
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Signs of Pain in Guinea Pigs
 
Hello and welcome to the forum. I’m sorry your piggy is poorly. I hope the vet can find the cause and he is soon feeling better.
 
Piggies&buns said:
I’m sorry to hear this.

Can I confirm that Wally and teddy do not live in the same cage given they had a fight which caused injury?
While health issues need to be ruled out first, I just wanted to check that they aren’t together (a fight would be considered a failed bond) so we can totally rule out bullying as a reason for his change and weight loss.

Generally speaking where a piggy has a dental issue, they will find eating hay quite tricky (can’t chew it properly) (but may well still eat some) as the issue progresses untreated, they drop food, struggle to pick food up. Although grinding teeth can suggest discomfort in the mouth area.
If he is still perfectly able to chew hard items like hay and carrot though then I wonder whether that makes a dental issue less likely. Pellets can go soft in the mouth so they can tend to prefer them as an easier option but you say it is the pellets he isn’t eating.
It is of course not conclusive - a dental issue can be small, cause discomfort but he may be able to manage around it enough for it to not be progressing too fast - but just as a general observation.

Hopefully the specialist will be able to help.

While you are waiting for the specialist, switch to daily weight checks and top up feeds with critical care to stop further weight loss.
Check his heft as per the guides below.

Regarding the vitamin c - piggies with a healthy balanced diet do not usually get scurvy and don’t need to be supplemented. It is rare to see scurvy in well kept piggies. Any hopping could be a general sign of pain in the back end and not just scurvy.
Now you have started to supplement please only give it for two weeks and then stop.
Giving supplementation above and beyond the diet for long term is where we actually see problems being caused.
Excess vit c is simply excreted in the urine so if he is already getting enough then what you are supplementing will just come straight back out.
More concerningly, Supplementation given long term runs the risk of being where we see issues . Where we do see cases of scurvy (which is hardly ever) on the forum they are usually in piggies who have been long term supplemented. Their bodies get used to abnormally high amounts of vit c and if for any reason that supplementation drops or stops then scurvy symptom - the level has become too low from what their individual body has become used (even though the level in any other pig would be considered normal) and it results in scurvy.

I would just say regarding the veg portion of his diet that parsley is high in calcium so shouldn’t be fed often (no more than one sprig once a week), and carrot is high in sugar and doesn’t need to be in the diet as anything other than an occasional treat.
The four safe daily veg which provide a good balance of nutrients and form the basis for the vet part of the diet that most of us feed is - lettuce, bell pepper, cucumber and cilantro. Other items can be added in rotation and moderation.

I’ve added some guides below which explain everything further.
The signs of pain guide also detailing further why vit c supplementation should not be done for long.

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/weight-monitoring-and-management.171577/
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
Signs of Pain in Guinea Pigs
Click to expand...

So they both are in the same cage together as of now and haven't had any fights as of late. They had been separated for about the first two weeks back in January. We slowly let them get reacquainted on the same neutral ground. They will eat hay and their main food next to each other without issues. Occasional you will get some chattering from both of them, but one of them will back down. There cage is big enough that they can run to the otherside for food if need be.

So the reason why I brought up the vitamin c deficiency is that he is a picky eater. His last cage mate was also a picky eater. He doesn't really like cucumbers, bell peppers, and most fruit either. I have never had pigs that didn't like so many foods (he will run away if you put a piece of banana near him like he is afraid of it).

Romaine and leafy greens get feed to them daily with the other items spread out through the week. During the spring and summer months they usually get feed grass and dandelions, which they just love. But they mainly just like eating hay. Granted they are picky at eating the hay and Oxbow doesn't have the best track record of their hay sometimes. So when they eat one lot number I stock up on many bags just to avoid dental problems.

Hoping that someone notices something in these provided X-rays or the picture of his mouth to suggest that it could still be dental. The vet as of the moment doesn't think so, but it's hard to find vets that you trust with their opinion and the one I have been going for the past few years has had turn over, but the same tech that did dental work on my past pigs looked at him and couldn't find anything wrong. No cuts/sores and or abscesses. Teeth length look good. He has no problem chewing on a card box.

I would like to mention that he has been scratching himself and barbering a little more than usual. Not sure if this is due to pain or unwanted visitors.

Just looking for any suggestions at this point to help this little guy as I can tell he is in pain. I am just not sure where.
 
Usually when piggies have had such a serious fight, you would not attempt to reunite them. If they are definitely ok together and you can totally rule out bullying as a potential cause - ie no depression in Wally, no chasing away from food and hides etc - then that is good.

Unfortunately I doubt many of us could spot anything in x rays - none of us are medically trained.

If he is barbering you will find stubble where the hairs are chewed down. Where on his body is he barbering himself?
Barbering can be due to pain/discomfort in an area.
Are there any bald patches where the hair has fallen out (there would not be stubble in those areas)?
 
Been going through various threads and saw that @furryfriends (TEAS) has some experience with dental issues. Would be much appreciated if you could tell me if the provided x-rays of my males teeth show any signs of elongated root or if the image of his teeth show any signs of overgrowth. My gut is telling me that his pain is stemming from his teeth cause nothing else makes sense at this time, but my vet believes that his teeth look to be at proper length. They referred me to a specialist, though it seems that they might be booked out by like two weeks.
 
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