Cumbrian Fighting Boars - Advice where to go from here please?

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boozyfruits

boozyfruits

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Apologies for a long post.

our two rescue guinea pigs boys have started fighting badly after being together for 3 weeks with us (we think they had happily been together at the refuge but as part of a much bigger free range colony in a big room. age is unknown but we think they are sexually mature (probably 6m+).). Blood was shed, so they have been temporarily seperated.

they had been ok together at ours for 3 weeks, with occ yawning, and then the fight happened. they are now in separate cages. this happened almost 2 weeks ago now.

we tried them together in the outdoor run the following weekend, in the hope that all would be ok on neutral territory, but nipping and chasing persued, so it looks as if we need a second run too.

we tried them again in a large indoor area at the weekend (10x5 feet min with 4 of their pigloos/chubes around, lots of fresh food and hay and multiple food bowels). They were ok for the first 40 mins (initially scared of course) but then the castanetting, head raising, circling and lunging started again. no contact was made this time. However if distracted they would settle down again at different end of the areas for 30mins or so, and then the fun and games would restart.

interestingly it seems that everytime things are started by the smaller one (monty), but when the actual fight happened, it was arthur turning on monty (we think he had got to the end of his tether). also monty has recently become v musky despite a bath.

they continue to shout and swear (and yawn and castanet) at each other through the bars of the cages despite being separated.

the refuge has offered to take one or both of them back, but we are already very attached to our dysfunctional piggies.
we are going to give them more time to settle down.

BUT where do we go from here?

keep them separate but solo?
is castration going to make any difference?
Try and match them with a baby boar as a companion (but what happens if the bullying and fighting recurs)?
Get them neutered and then find them girlfriends?

we are not considering castration lightly, you will be pleased to know. but we have been advised if they are so agressive we would not be able to match them with a baby boar easily, if at all, so if they start getting lonesome, adding in a girlie pig maybe the only other option.

advice please
many thanks
from a distraught guinea pig owner :(
 
hi first of all your piggies should not have been with other piggies because only a maximum of 2 boars usually get along and only one boar can be put with sows;).
Desexing does not calm aggression
the best option is to pair them with baby boars or to neuter and give them a wife each:)
if you are nervous about doing the introductions and pairing process you may be able to find a rescue who will pair suitable piggies with yours,bear in mind with neutering that you will have to leave the boys on there own for 5-6 weeks before you can put sows with them xxxxx
i would personally continue a little more with re pairing your current boys,the biggest fight signs are teeth chattering/rumbling/lunging and so on if they haven't drawn blood i would try again
 
A very common occurance with boars of this age unfortunately!

I love boars though, but it sounds like you have tried all the right things and it may just not be. I had one boar castrated who was a living nightmare with any other boar and he now has 3 wives :)) castration does not change their behaviour like cats/dogs.

Ask the rescue if they routinely castrate boars before rehoming and get their vet to do the op if you decide to go that way, as they will be experienced in yhis type of surgery. A baby boar each could work, but a 50/50 chance of 4 single boars :{

Good luck x
 
You probably won't be able to get them together again.

You've got two possibilities: Either put each with a young boy or have both neutered and introduce each to a girl after six weeks. Both ways you can build stable relationships.

Your two boys seem to have hit the hormones (male puberty last from about 5 months to a year) and wants to be the most macho boy EVER. The difference in age will avoid the new pairing hitting the hormones at the same time.

I would recommend you contact a reputable rescue (not so sure about the place where you got the boys from; they shouldn't all roam together). Usually, specialist rescue people will help your boys form a stable bond with a guinea pigs whose character complements their new companions'. Most good rescues will either offer to bond your boys for you or have them trying out several possible candidates under supervision in order to find the right companion.

You'll find the necessary information on this website (to which this forum is attached to): http://www.guineapigrehome.org.uk

I wish you the best and am glad that you want to hang onto both boys!

And finally: Welcome to the board!
Vicky
 
Hmm, a tricky one - it is good that you are thinking over castration carefully. It's often an easy option as many people think it's the ONLY option, but it is still an op and therefore carries risk.

Although it's unlikely (but not impossible) that your two boars will get back together again, they may eventually happily spend run-time together. We took in a pair that had fallen out badly in their previous home and whilst we have never been able to get them to re-bond fully in the year that we have had them, they now happily share a run for the best part of a day before they get on each others nerves! So it's not beyond hope!

Sadly you have the worst of both worlds - adolescent boys and spring fever, a potent testosterone mix!
 
I have had EXACTLY the same problem with my boys..
I got them from a rescue.. had them a couple of weeks and they fell out. (although the night they came to me i was told they had had a small "scrap" and one had suffered a scratch)
The fight was so bad, one suffered a nasty scratch to his neck that went right across..and I had to seperate them. Many attempts later and they could not be rebonded
I got 2 baby boars to bond them with. these babies ended up being really ill (just my luck) and after 5 weeks of treatment have now bonded and I have been told not to split the bond..
Now, although this is not what we had wanted, is a last resort and has caused a big "hoohah" between me and my OH we are going to get 2 babies next week to bond the older boys with. This is a last attempt.. NO MORE!
They just have seemed so sad and try to get to the babies cos they can hear them..
Hope it goes well!
Hope yours does also... have you decided what to do?
Tori x
 
Hiya,

Welcome to the forum. :)

We have 4 pairs of boars and out of them only one pair is a similar age pairing. What works best is an older boar with a younger.

As blood has been shed I wouldn't attempt to put them back together again at the moment. They could happily live side by side which I have done with my two Sunshine and Twinkle when they had a falling out. Once the hormones calm down they may get on again but in my experience getting a younger boar once they are past the hormonal stage at 12 months would work better.

Good luck with them,

Louise
:)
 
If you are thinking of neutering them and having each with a girl, it pays to contact your local rescues and ask them where they have their boys neutered, as you want an experienced vet doing the op. That way, you'll have a good chance of everthing going smoothly.

You can house the cross gender pairs next to each other, but best either on top of each other or with a divider they can't see through. That keeps the stress levels right down.
 
i know! :)
what i meant was is there much of a chance that it wont work?
I'm getting 2 babies next week, but the whole purpose being to pair with my older boys, and just wondered if there was much of a chance that it wouldnt work after a bonding had failed..
sorry for confusion :red
 
mstori said:
Thanks sokel for the help.. sorry for confusion.
I will take the chance.. I hate to think of my boys alone..
Hope boozyfruits gets sorted..let us know xx
Click to expand...

I personally would suggest that you get babies based on their personalities in relation to your existing boars personalities rather than cuteness!...i.e dominant to passive. No guarantees, but I got a very shy baby from a bunch of 4 (studied them for 1/2 an hour and he was last to food bowl etc) for my very dominant boar who fought with my Lennie and 18 months later, they are still very happy together x)
 
i have chosen 2.. well, the lady has chosen 3 for me.. ( i have chosen 2 from them) she has 5 and the 3 she chose are the ones she said are the quietest and she feels are not dominant at all. She also said that they have been well handled and are not ready to leave until monday but i am welcome to come and see them and bring my older boys with me to see how they get on first. So fingers crossed.. x
I understand that things can change as they get older..
 
Best of luck! I would still keep all three candidates in the running, and see who gets on best with whom at the lady's - it's not always obvious!
 
an update

thank you all for your advice.
to date, Monty and Arthur remain seperated. We've tried them together in a neutral space a few times, but they are still agressive.
We've started to realise just how jealous Monty is - he even castanets when he sees Arthur being cuddled.
Only once have hubby and i managed to sit next to each other on the sofa, with a pig each, with the boys being well behaved.

Can i ask for some more advice, please? ?/
Given how jealous Monty is, what are the views on getting baby boar companions? Would it be better to wait until the hormones have settled a bit? I'm just aware that Sokel GPR is up the road and presently have a number of babies....

Thanks
Becca
 
I am sure sokel will be able to help and find a placid little boar for Monty. But he may be quite hard on the little one.

The alternative would be to have him neutered by an experienced vet and have him with a lady - that completely changes the game! While it is not the first thing I would recommend for consideration, as it involves an operation, cross gender pairings usually make for very stable relationships.
 
I would strongly suggest that for now you just concentrate on the two that you have and look at rearranging their living quarters so that they can be beside each other without harm.

You have only had these guys for 3 weeks which in terms of settling is very early indeed, it is stressful for them and the last thing they need at the moment is the introduction of yet more change...ie a new piggy or 2.

Animals thrive on routine and things remaining the same, unfortunately by moving them to different areas in the hope that they will bond has likely made the situation worse. Each time they go into a new territory they have to "claim" the territory as theirs, its what piggies do. They will be very unsettled by this and coupled with their age they are remaining on "red alert" all the time, trying to assert their right to that area.

My advice would be to leave them for a good few weeks in one hutch/home without moving them elsewhere. If you want to take them out for exercise or cuddles choose one place per pig and stick with that - don't keep swapping it about. In that time they will begin to understand routine, their smells will be in that area and this will give them the chance to relax and chill out a bit more. During that time you will be able to get to know them more and understand their needs. You will also then be able to decide whether they can be rebonded at some point in the future.

I have two boars who cannot share their hutch so it is divided so they can chatter, see, smell each other through mesh. However, they are happy to share a run on the lawn together for several hours each day without falling out although I watch them carefully. They have lived like that for over two years and they are fine although initially blood was shed when they first shared a hutch together. Several attempts since then to take away the mesh have failed :( but they are quite content with each other now, as long as the mesh is in place. They have their own territory.

If yours are only 6 months old I would wait until they are a little older before making a decision about introducing babies. Give them chance to feel at home a bit more first.

If you do decide to go ahead and neuter then that is a different thing altogether, it can be a tremendous success. (They don't have to wait for 6 weeks as has been suggested here) However, give the little guys time to settle first - good luck. And know that you are not alone with your problem. :)

I personally think you shouldn't rush these things as they quite often resolve themselves given time.
 
thanks summerleaze

i keep forgetting the boys have only been with us 8 or 9 weeks as it feel like forever.

i think your set up is similar to ours, with 2 cages next to each other, inside. they're Nero's so the boys don't have to look at each other if they don't want to, but can stand up and talk/swear whenever they feel like it.

we tried them sharing the outdoor run, but fights occurred, so we divided it, but they got under the wall and continued scrapping. mallethead
So 2 weeks ago, Dad and Hubby hand built a magnificent run (6+ by 3 feet), which Arthur loves. The runs are placed next to each other in the garden for sociability.

i'm trying to work out a set up for free roaming inside - the same everytime for familiarity, but given the lovely weather we haven't needed it.

The reason for asking about introducing babies at this point in time, was purely because of the recent influx at our nearest GPR (Sokel). But i suppose as long as people are idiots and mistreat GPs then unfortunately there will alway be rescued piggies to rehome, and babies to try and match up to our two.

All advice and comments are gratefully received
Becca
 
I agree don't rush it. When I seperated two of my boars I waited until the hormonal stage passed to introduce babes to them. I did however try to get them back together once they were 13 and 12 months old but it wasn't to be, they are too similar in personality it would seem!

Give them time to settle in and take it from there. Good luck with them! :)
 
Hi Boozyfruits - we will be inundated with babies very soon - some of our sows have already just given birth (sokel's and beckyp's) - mine haven't yet but soon will.

did you get these from Wetheriggs - just out of interest?

Love Helen.
(Sokel GPR). Gretna
x
 
summerleaze said:
I have two boars who cannot share their hutch so it is divided so they can chatter, see, smell each other through mesh. However, they are happy to share a run on the lawn together for several hours each day without falling out although I watch them carefully. They have lived like that for over two years and they are fine although initially blood was shed when they first shared a hutch together. Several attempts since then to take away the mesh have failed :( but they are quite content with each other now, as long as the mesh is in place. They have their own territory.
Click to expand...


I have exactly the same situation. I picked up two boars who had fallen out badly over the smell of females at only 4 months old. We've let them settle in here for exactly a year and whilst they adore each other, can chat through their mesh divide, and quite happily share run time, they will probably never share a hutch :( But they popcorn away next to each other and are amazingly happy pigs. So as long as your two can see and interact with each other, after a bit of settling in they will become much more comfortable and who knows what may happen in the future!
 
Thank you everyone

Hubby and i are happy to give Monty and Arthur more time, and we are not really sure if we could cope with extra piggies right now, it was just the thought of all those poor rescues and babies at the various local Sokel GPR homes :(

helen, you were right about the boys' origins. now i know a bit more about piggies i maybe would have been a bit more savvy, but it was somewhere we knew as pottery is a hobby of ours. (for non-Cumbrians, wetheriggs was a pottery centre for centuries which recently folded, and the next door animal rescue has taken over the premises). i had tried looking for a local GP rescue, but for some reason we didn't come across Sokel in our searches. SO if and when we do expand our GP family, we will know where to come now ;) (we're in Carlisle)

Continuing advice, as always, is gratefully recieved
Hope you all have a good weekend
Becca
 
boozyfruits said:
Thank you everyone

Hubby and i are happy to give Monty and Arthur more time, and we are not really sure if we could cope with extra piggies right now, it was just the thought of all those poor rescues and babies at the various local Sokel GPR homes :(

helen, you were right about the boys' origins. now i know a bit more about piggies i maybe would have been a bit more savvy, but it was somewhere we knew as pottery is a hobby of ours. (for non-Cumbrians, wetheriggs was a pottery centre for centuries which recently folded, and the next door animal rescue has taken over the premises). i had tried looking for a local GP rescue, but for some reason we didn't come across Sokel in our searches. SO if and when we do expand our GP family, we will know where to come now ;) (we're in Carlisle)

Continuing advice, as always, is gratefully recieved
Hope you all have a good weekend
Becca
Click to expand...


Do not worry - if you can pair up with a baby boar each I am sure all will be well.

I had a feeling it would be Wetheriggs - they have one big room with all the piggies just running about in there - males and females - Beckyp and I actually asked to go IN the room and we did some sexing of the pigs whilst in there.

Becca - I am in Gretna - come on over to mine and we can have a chat and a coffee and I can explain a little about Sokel Rescue and you can meet the pigguns?

Let me know
Helen.
x
 
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