Crystals in the kidneys, decreased kidney function - when to stop syringe feeding

[ConfusedMamapig]

I need some advice. Sorry in advance for the long rambling post. I am sat here covered as usual in critical care, wondering if I am doing the right thing. Our little piggie Fluffy will, I think, be making a journey across the rainbow bridge sometime but I am struggling with making the right decision about when to let him go. Since the start of October he has been sustained with critical care feeds (bar some grass and a few veggies which he still chomps through). For over two months we have religiously been putting 100-125ml of CC into him a day across 4 or 5 feeds just to maintain his weight, while juggling family life, kids, jobs etc and for the short term this has been ok (although he has still probably lost 100g in this time). He has been diagnosed with two small bladder stones and also x ray / bloods in early Oct showed crystallisation of the kidneys and reduced kidney function. He's only just over a year old. The vet explained this would be terminal and to take him home and give him lots of love until the time came. I should say at the same time in Oct he also had an infection which made him completely miserable. This cleared up with baytril. The problem I have is that we love him to bits and his quality of life at the moment is ok (well, its so much better than when the infection was raging). He's on metacam twice daily - but he's still rumblestrutting around, getting excited about grass (even though he can't seem to gain weight). He's not ill enough for me to pts but without a clear end point I am not sure how much longer we can keep rearranging our lives around his feeding pattern...its all consuming. I know that sounds awful but we can't go anywhere as a family for more than 4 hours and if we go away one of us has to stay behind. As I said for a couple of months it was totally fine. Does anyone have any experience of crystals on the kidney and can give me some idea as to the rate of decline? I hope I don't sound heartless trying to work out where we are on the end of life continum, even writing this post feels disrespectful to dear little Fluffs. He weighs about 900g now (down from 1.15 originally). He drinks massively, which I believe is a sign of progressing kidney disease. As I said he still gets excited for veggies, nuggets, even hay but cannot eat anywhere near enough to sustain himself. He's not as spritly as he was, looks a bit stiff but definitely is not sat looking dejected all the time. I can't pts at the moment with his eyes still bright but I also can't do this indefinitely...any words of wisdom...before I start the next feed...

 

[Wiebke]

I need some advice. Sorry in advance for the long rambling post. I am sat here covered as usual in critical care, wondering if I am doing the right thing. Our little piggie Fluffy will, I think, be making a journey across the rainbow bridge sometime but I am struggling with making the right decision about when to let him go. Since the start of October he has been sustained with critical care feeds (bar some grass and a few veggies which he still chomps through). For over two months we have religiously been putting 100-125ml of CC into him a day across 4 or 5 feeds just to maintain his weight, while juggling family life, kids, jobs etc and for the short term this has been ok (although he has still probably lost 100g in this time). He has been diagnosed with two small bladder stones and also x ray / bloods in early Oct showed crystallisation of the kidneys and reduced kidney function. He's only just over a year old. The vet explained this would be terminal and to take him home and give him lots of love until the time came. I should say at the same time in Oct he also had an infection which made him completely miserable. This cleared up with baytril. The problem I have is that we love him to bits and his quality of life at the moment is ok (well, its so much better than when the infection was raging). He's on metacam twice daily - but he's still rumblestrutting around, getting excited about grass (even though he can't seem to gain weight). He's not ill enough for me to pts but without a clear end point I am not sure how much longer we can keep rearranging our lives around his feeding pattern...its all consuming. I know that sounds awful but we can't go anywhere as a family for more than 4 hours and if we go away one of us has to stay behind. As I said for a couple of months it was totally fine. Does anyone have any experience of crystals on the kidney and can give me some idea as to the rate of decline? I hope I don't sound heartless trying to work out where we are on the end of life continum, even writing this post feels disrespectful to dear little Fluffs. He weighs about 900g now (down from 1.15 originally). He drinks massively, which I believe is a sign of progressing kidney disease. As I said he still gets excited for veggies, nuggets, even hay but cannot eat anywhere near enough to sustain himself. He's not as spritly as he was, looks a bit stiff but definitely is not sat looking dejected all the time. I can't pts at the moment with his eyes still bright but I also can't do this indefinitely...any words of wisdom...before I start the next feed...

Hi!

It is always very difficult when you are supporting a terminal ill guinea pig and are coming closer to the end, and you starting you ask yourself that question. You will generally know when the time has come; in some ways the run up with its ups and downs is much trickier to navigate.

You may find this guide here helpful that deals with exactly your situation and the questions you are asking in more detail and depth. It doesn't make the easiest of reads but I have tried to tackle all the issues and aspects that are involved in your decision making in a clear but sensitive way so you know what to look out for. Nobody can make that decision for you but the guide can hopefully help you work out better where you stand so you are coming out of this not necessarily with any less heartache but hopefully with a clearer mind: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

HUGS

 

[Merab]

So sorry you are dealing with such a difficult situation.
Offering you support.
Holding you in my thoughts

 

[Betsy]

Sorry you find yourself in this "what should I do for the best?" situation. You clearly love little Fluffy and want to do your utmost for him. You have already done a lot by maintaining the syringe feeding which in itself is a full time job and very time consuming. I've had to syringe feed a sick piggy for about 2 weeks and that was enough I can't imagine what it must be like to syringe feed for longer than that. You must be completely drained both emotionally and physically.

 

[ConfusedMamapig]

Thank you for the guide, that's actually very useful and thank you for the kind thoughts. Its so nice to know there are people out there that understand. My non piggie friends think I'm totally mad. Some days I think I am more resilient than others...yesterday was a definite down! Bless him, he's skipping around his cage tonight without a care in the world, while I have been doing the long overdue job of chiselling critical care off the sofa!

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for the guide, that's actually very useful and thank you for the kind thoughts. Its so nice to know there are people out there that understand. My non piggie friends think I'm totally mad. Some days I think I am more resilient than others...yesterday was a definite down! Bless him, he's skipping around his cage tonight without a care in the world, while I have been doing the long overdue job of chiselling critical care off the sofa!

The massive ups and downs are unfortunately par for the job. Piggies are personalities and the emotional and physical stress in supporting an ill piggy for any length of time is quite enormous.

That's what we are here for. We are not just a place for advice, we also have a great friendly community to give each other moral support and a safe place to hang out and enjoy all things piggy...

Enjoy the chiselling... Critical care has a habit of landing everywhere, unfortunately!

 

[HeatherW]

Sending you big hugs! I lost one of my piggies in August due to kidney failure. The vet told me that, if signs of kidney failure are showing in blood samples, then they've already lost 75% of their function. It's normal for pigs with kidney issues to struggle to maintain or gain weight, so the fact you're able to support him through it shows just what an incredible job you're doing!

I thankfully didn't have to make the decision to PTS; I suspected Leo was starting to pass when he became slow to respond to things like me touching his head before I went to bed, then I came down the following morning and he was gone. Aside from that, there were no other signs beforehand that made me think it was time to help him over the bridge. He had bouts of lethargy, but he was still eating and just quieter than normal.

Has the vet prescribed any meds at all? Leo was on 0.5ml of Fortekor once a day to increase the blood flow to the kidneys and support their function. My Jasmine has kidney cysts which she takes the same dosage of Fortekor for, and she's still going strong, whereas I spotted Leo was off only a couple months before he died. I was advised he only had weeks at his last appointment, and then he passed five days later. I think it very much depends on the pig and how quickly the disease advances.

You clearly care for Fluffy, and syringe feeding every four hours is exhausting, both physically and emotionally, so you shouldn't feel bad that you're wondering how long you might want/need to keep going. Thinking of you. x

 

[Sue and Smartie]

The longest I have ever given Critical Care at that level was 6 weeks and it nearly did me in. I am full of admiration for you, it's a hell of a task to do for as long as you have been.
It's not always easy to know when the time has come to say 'enough' but there's a saying in the horse world that's it's better a day too soon than a day too late.

 

[ConfusedMamapig]

Sending you big hugs! I lost one of my piggies in August due to kidney failure. The vet told me that, if signs of kidney failure are showing in blood samples, then they've already lost 75% of their function. It's normal for pigs with kidney issues to struggle to maintain or gain weight, so the fact you're able to support him through it shows just what an incredible job you're doing!

I thankfully didn't have to make the decision to PTS; I suspected Leo was starting to pass when he became slow to respond to things like me touching his head before I went to bed, then I came down the following morning and he was gone. Aside from that, there were no other signs beforehand that made me think it was time to help him over the bridge. He had bouts of lethargy, but he was still eating and just quieter than normal.

Has the vet prescribed any meds at all? Leo was on 0.5ml of Fortekor once a day to increase the blood flow to the kidneys and support their function. My Jasmine has kidney cysts which she takes the same dosage of Fortekor for, and she's still going strong, whereas I spotted Leo was off only a couple months before he died. I was advised he only had weeks at his last appointment, and then he passed five days later. I think it very much depends on the pig and how quickly the disease advances.

You clearly care for Fluffy, and syringe feeding every four hours is exhausting, both physically and emotionally, so you shouldn't feel bad that you're wondering how long you might want/need to keep going. Thinking of you. x

Thank you for your kind thoughts. That's interesting what you vet said about if they are showing blood then they have already lost considerable kidney function. I'm so sorry you lost Leo to kidney issues too. I suspect Fluffy hasn't got long left and my little boy especially is so pleased with this extra time...we definitely thought we were losing him in October. I think sometimes its the relentless of syringe feeds...you've barely finished one, done the washing up and its time for another. I will definitely talk to the vet about fortekor, at the moment he is just on metacam which we know is progressing the kidney disease but is necessary to keep him comfortable. We tried a gut stimulant to see if it would stimulate his appetite but it didn't really have an effect.

 

[ConfusedMamapig]

The longest I have ever given Critical Care at that level was 6 weeks and it nearly did me in. I am full of admiration for you, it's a hell of a task to do for as long as you have been.
It's not always easy to know when the time has come to say 'enough' but there's a saying in the horse world that's it's better a day too soon than a day too late.

It is hard, thank you so much for your words of support. I shall hold that saying close in the coming days and weeks..❤