Critical Dental Problem

[Frankie&Pinkie]

Hello there

I've just joined but have been reading the forum for a while.

I have two beautiful rescued skinny pigs Frankie and Pinkie (they were living outside with rabbits, now Inside in a large hutch). I've had them a year, the little one was just a few 6 weeks old, Frankie was about 12 months.

I had to separate them last week as they got into a huge fight over a piece of lettuce, rolling around the floor and took little chunks out of each other before I could get a towel over them, nothing too bad but still worrying. As they are skinny pigs with no fur I can't risk them fighting again, the little one is now a big bolshy teen so that is the issue I think, Frankie the elder had previously been boss, no problems.

At first both seemed happier with a grid separating them, but Frankie the eldest (now aprox 3 years old) starting acting odd 4 days ago, going to eat food, tossing it around, but couldn't pick it up, I tried hand feeding but he couldn't grip it and it just plopped back out, he couldn't grip it or get it to stay in, even when I nudged it in for him. Can't chew properly either.

Took him to the vet after 48hrs of trying to handfeed him as no poo for 24hrs. Vet said his front teeth were too long, and clipped them back, also looked in his mouth with a long tube with a light and said his jaw was out of line and could never be fixed, and I'd have to feed him a liquid diet for life and file his teeth, for life, which wouldn't be long as I wouldn't be able to get enough calories in longterm, recommended putting him to sleep. I ran out clutching my piggy!

I immediately ordered some critical care which will arrive tomorrow, I'm in rural France and the vets don't have it in stock. I'm syringe feeding mushed pellets, which he won't take, he spits them out.

He is rapidly going down hill, no longer wheeks, doesn't eat hay or play or run, won't take the syringe just pushing all the food back out again. He will eat pureed vegetables and apple, so he's living on that, plus the tiny bit of (no grain) pellets that he doesn't manage to spit out.

I can't believe nothing can be done for him the vet claims to be a specialist in exotic pets, but I don't believe him. His front teeth look aligned to me, not left or right, so it can't be that bad. I can't find a suitable vet here that knows what they're doing and I'm so worried about Frankie, this little piggy is the sweetest most gentle boy, he doesn't wheek anymore but he licks my hands and boops my nose whenever I feed him or change his bed, he's so thankful. His only comfort is the pureed food and laying next to me hidden under a fleece. He grinds his teeth all day, the vet gave me no painkillers for him, said it was bad for his tummy. I have some fibreplex, he will take that without issue.

I am at my wits end, he's vitals are still great, strong heart, normal breathing etc (just losing weight rapidly and getting weaker). He wants to eat, nuzzles the hay tries to eat it, he just can't, and won't accept the syringe pellets, he spits it out.

Can anyone help me, please? I'm not willing to give up on him and just accept the situation, I want to at least say I tried everything.

Thanks so much and sorry for the essay!

 

[Siikibam]

I’m so sorry your boy is unwell. How were his molars when inspected? Unfortunately there aren’t many vets who are experienced in guinea pig dentals, which makes things very difficult.

I have no experience with dentals or jaw misalignment but hopefully someone with more knowledge will be along soon.

With regards the syringe feeding, it is vital that you do try to get a good amount into him. As he’s not eating hay you need to get minimum 60ml into him in a 24 hour period. Did you cut the tip off the syringe and made sure the mush was watery enough to get through easily? You could also try offering it to him on a spoon or in a dish.

I’m afraid purred vegetables will not help him. He needs fibre in his diet and mushed pellets or critical care is the best way to do that. Vegetables only make up around 15% of their diet while hay makes up 80%. So you see what they need to maintain their health.

You will also need to switch to weighing him once daily to check his weight. You’re aiming to help him maintain more than anything else. Poo output is 1-2 days behind so isn’t as good an indicator as weighing daily in this scenario.

I wish you all the best and I really hope he can come back from his troubles.

 

[Frankie&Pinkie]

I’m so sorry your boy is unwell. How were his molars when inspected? Unfortunately there aren’t many vets who are experienced in guinea pig dentals, which makes things very difficult.

I have no experience with dentals or jaw misalignment but hopefully someone with more knowledge will be along soon.

With regards the syringe feeding, it is vital that you do try to get a good amount into him. As he’s not eating hay you need to get minimum 60ml into him in a 24 hour period. Did you cut the tip off the syringe and made sure the mush was watery enough to get through easily? You could also try offering it to him on a spoon or in a dish.

I’m afraid purred vegetables will not help him. He needs fibre in his diet and mushed pellets or critical care is the best way to do that. Vegetables only make up around 15% of their diet while hay makes up 80%. So you see what they need to maintain their health.

You will also need to switch to weighing him once daily to check his weight. You’re aiming to help him maintain more than anything else. Poo output is 1-2 days behind so isn’t as good an indicator as weighing daily in this scenario.

I wish you all the best and I really hope he can come back from his troubles.

Thank you so much for your reply!

He said the molars looked okay, but couldn't guarantee it, but they weren't trapping his tongue or hugely overgrown. I asked about spurs and he again said not sure but didn't look like it. I asked if he could take a better look and he said Frankie would need a general which was too risky, that seemed odd to me considering he just told me to put him to sleep forever! I just didn't trust he knew what he was talking about.

I got about 15mls in him just now, I have cut the end off the syringe and inserted a metal straw and held it in place with glue (none on the inside so his mouth won't make contact with the glue).

I will try my very best to get at least 60ml in him, no matter if I have to try 100 times. Can he go all night without food or should I get up and feed him again? I have a young child so I'm used to sleepless nights anyway. I'm just not sure how often I need to feed him, I don't want to traumatise him and make his life awful.

Again thanks so much for trying to help me.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m so sorry to hear this.

Whether he can go all night without food depends on how much he is getting overall. The less he gets overall, then he will need night feeds. Generally they can go something like 11pm until 6-7am without a feed but they need to be getting enough at other times.
Make sure you weigh him daily as that is your guide as to whether he is getting enough food in each 24 hour period

You say it was an exotic vet, are they used to seeing piggies though? A piggy savvy vet does not need to be an exotic if you see what I mean.

 

[Wheekallweek]

I wonder if your vet could have a chat to Simon or Kim at at the Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton, UK?
They really are specialists when it comes to dental guinea pigs. They've helped many a guinea pig on this forum!
I know you're not in the UK. Perhaps your vet could email or call them?
Might be worth a shot.
Best of luck to you and Frankie x

 

[Frankie&Pinkie]

I’m so sorry to hear this.

Whether he can go all night without food depends on how much he is getting overall. The less he gets overall, then he will need night feeds. Generally they can go something like 11pm until 6-7am without a feed but they need to be getting enough at other times.
Make sure you weigh him daily as that is your guide as to whether he is getting enough food in each 24 hour period

You say it was an exotic vet, are they used to seeing piggies though? A piggy savvy vet does not need to be an exotic if you see what I mean.

I decided to get up every 3 hours as I felt he was giving up, by the 3rd feed he perked up a bit, so I'm glad I did it.

The vet says he's a piggy specialist, he works for the local exotic zoo, where they have hundreds of piggies (they gave me his name) but I have a feeling all he normally does is put them to sleep and trim nails / teeth, not much else, anything complicated and he can't handle the problem.

I am phoning around some sanctuary's to see if they know of any vets, but most put their pigs to sleep here when they get sick! I'm considering travelling back to the UK with him if I can't find someone I trust by Monday evening, just not sure if he'd make the journey.

Thanks so much for replying ad helping.

 

[Frankie&Pinkie]

I wonder if your vet could have a chat to Simon or Kim at at the Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton, UK?
They really are specialists when it comes to dental guinea pigs. They've helped many a guinea pig on this forum!
I know you're not in the UK. Perhaps your vet could email or call them?
Might be worth a shot.
Best of luck to you and Frankie x

I'm seriously considering coming back over to the UK which will be a nightmare as I have a child in infant school, but I can't find anyone here as of yet, I'll phone Simon and Kim at the Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic on Monday, see what they say.

I'm willing to try anything right now as he wants to live so much, it's heartbreaking watching him trying to pick leaves from his herb plants and just mouth at them unable to pick off a stem (or even hold a leaf when I push it in) yet he never gives in, we managed to get one in and then he needed to sleep for half an hour to recover, but he's very pleased with himself about it and tried to popcorn but fell over as he's so weak from lack of hay he usually eats a bag every 3 days he's/was a chunky boy. I'm syringe feeding constantly now, every 2 hours or so with not much break. It makes me so sad that these little animals who hurt nobody seem to suffer so much sometimes.

I was just wondering if there was anyone on here that had been in a similar situation with their own piggy and had a positive outcome?

 

[weepweeps]

I don’t have experience of jaw misalignment but I recently had to syringe feed my piggy for over 5 weeks when he wasn’t eating due to being on antibiotics. It’s really stressful. I’m sending you a hug and healing vibes to Frankie. Good luck

 

[Frankie&Pinkie]

I don’t have experience of jaw misalignment but I recently had to syringe feed my piggy for over 5 weeks when he wasn’t eating due to being on antibiotics. It’s really stressful. I’m sending you a hug and healing vibes to Frankie. Good luck

Thanks you for being so kind, sorry you had to go through something similar, it's definitely stressful.

Hoping someone will have some info on the jaw misalignment as currently can't find a vet who is even willing to try and deal with this, which is the cause of the problem!

 

[Free Ranger]

I kept a girl going for well over a month on syringe food. Our problem turned out to be a swallowing issue and the (slightly) overgrown teeth were a secondary issue resulting form that. We couldn't identify her problem so our story has a sad end but for her final weeks she seemed very well in herself apart from being unable to eat so the vets were happy to support me as we waited to see if other symptoms appeared to give us more of a clue.

I don't know the life expectancy for our skinny pig brethren - I hear it's less than the furries but I don't know how much less. I think pain management will be key for your boy - tooth grinding can be a sign of stress or pain. Try to press your vet for metacam (or loxicom) for Frankie - ideally the 1.5mg/ml dog version and again ideally twice a day. It will depend on his weight but my boy of 1.3kg is on 0.3ml twice a day for life because of arthritis and he's fine on it - and they love it because it's sweet. My vet considers this a low dose - I've certainly had pigs on higher in the short term. Do you know how much weight Frankie has lost? It's important to monitor it at this stage on a day to day basis. Getting some decent syringe food in is key - you can get syringe food on Amazon even - if they deliver near you! If you can source something called Critical Care Fine Grind (in a silver and brown packet) it's very popular in our house - it's papaya flavour so if he likes his fruits he should be tempted. And being fine grind it's easy to syringe. If Frankie's in pain - maybe from an abscess or something - he will be less inclined to chew so if you can make it a bit runnier and easier for him to manage he'll get the fibre and nourishment into him. Maybe you can mix some of the things he'll eat into the pellets to make a decent slurry. Keep an eye on those poops to monitor how his gut is doing. My girl took an average of 45ml of syringe food a day to maintain her (reduced) weight of 950g. We didn't feed between 11pm and 6:30am - long term support feeding needs to be tempered with everyone getting some sleep.

What strikes me very strongly is that if Frankie is 3 he's done pretty well on his own so far for a pig with a supposed mis-aligned jaw! I mean, how has he lived and eaten all by himself for all that time? I wonder whether the vet saw a jaw that seemed to sit to one side at this point? If they have pain or a problem on one side they will try and adjust their chew to cope with that and over time this will lead to uneven wear. Did the vet check carefully along the jawline to see if they could feel any lumps or tenderness that might indicate a dental abscess? If he started to get unwell that might have prompted the challenge for dominance from his friend - it's not uncommon in boars.

Overgrown incisors are a sign that things have been going wrong for some time too. My girl who stopped eating originally had her molars ground down but not the incisors. She didn't then start eating - this was our first sign that teeth were not the cause of the problem. A couple of weeks beyond her first dental she had to have her incisors burred down as this was preventing her from closing her mouth! They were OK at first but a few weeks of not being able to bite anything took their toll. I noticed she was trying to bite at wooden things which she had never done before - she could sense her front teeth growing too long but couldn't do anything about it. Luckily the vet burred them short in a few minutes - no anaesthetic needed - they were actually too short but they grow so fast it's not an issue. Incisors should be straight as you look at them - if they slope to one side or the other this indicates which side the problem is on. I'll link in to an older thread with a post showing some photos of piggy incisors looking sloping here Dislocated Jaw and no exotic vet around , what to do

I'll tag in @furryfriends (TEAS) in case she has anything to add. But for now tackling potential pain with something (tell the vet you'll sign a release form if he is nervous!) and carefully getting some decent volumes of syringe food into what might be a very tender mouth are your priorities. We'll be thinking of you x

 

[Free Ranger]

I forgot to add that a different girl who was feeling down because she couldn't eat without pain (cracked incisor) was able to slurp up the soft middle part of chopped cucumber which was hydrating and made her feel a bit better about things. Hardly any chewing required. Maybe try a little of that? I hope you are both managing. Monday is a bank holiday here so, like on Sundays, many places will have restricted service but I hope you can contact Cat & Rabbit if that's the way you are thinking to go.