Constant Cow Pads

[Little Ones]

Little is my 6 year old piggy. He’s had problems with his tummy basically all his life but it seems to be growing in severity. When he was in adulthood, he could only have veg every other day or every two days as they’d make his poos go soft and into cow pads. The older hes gotten, the worse it’s become. We’ve been giving him a daily probiotic for a while, I’d say over 6 months. This was the only thing that helped his tummy and he could eat veg with no problems. He’d have slightly soft poo but nothing severe. We tried taking him off the probiotic multiple times but each time, his poos would just go terrible.
For the last 3 weeks or so, his poos have been just terrible. There will be instances where we think everything is going back to normal and an hour later it’ll be cow pads again. Sometimes there are cow pads but other times we have to get the poo out for him. It doesn’t seem like impaction as it’s not hard, but really really soft. Not watery, runny diarrhoea but a runnier consistency than the cow pads. It’s hard to explain, sorry. Anyway, it’s been like this 3 weeks and there’s been no improvement. We’ve taken him off fresh food but it hasn’t helped so we’ve started giving him a tiny bit of veg again per day. He also always feels slightly bloated and some days he can have really loud tummy gurgling sounds and we can feel pockets of gas on his sides which disperse when the tummy gurgles again.
We’ve been to different vets about this over the years and I’ve been to 3 different vets in the last few months about this but no one seems to be taking it seriously. I’ve asked for a conscious X-ray but been told it’s unneeded. The main vet who is fairly close that I trust didn’t seem concerned. I mentioned emeprid in passing but it was dismissed.
I just don’t really know what to do to make things better for him? Any advice would be appreciated. We had it under control before but recently, nothing seems to be helping.

 

[PIGGIES FOREVER]

Hi.

Have you tried prebiotics with the probiotic? Maybe he is sensitive to the pellets that you feed or certain veggies? Is he on grain free soy free and cold pressed pellets? Does he have access to hay all the time?

 

[Siikibam]

Do you think there may be a particular veg that seems to trigger it? You could use a process of elimination to find out. Otherwise something is constantly disturbing his gut. Have they ever tested his stool?

I don’t have a clue so just throwing ideas out there. I’ll tag @Wiebke @Piggies&buns

 

[Little Ones]

Do you think there may be a particular veg that seems to trigger it? You could use a process of elimination to find out. Otherwise something is constantly disturbing his gut. Have they ever tested his stool?

I don’t have a clue so just throwing ideas out there. I’ll tag @Wiebke @Piggies&buns

Since I made the post, his poos have finally become formed. We started him with a small amount of coriander yesterday, poos aren’t as good today as yesterday but still formed.
He’s had it all his life, it’s just that it’s got worse with age. There’s nothing that triggers it as we’ve tried several things over the years, removing certain veg, trying different pellets (which in itself answers @PIGGIES FOREVER questions). I’ve pushed several times for stool samples to be sent but it’s never happened as the vets never think it’s worth doing. For example they’ve told me if it’s anything like parasites then there’d also be weight loss accompanying it.
It can just be infuriating, he hasn’t had proper firm poos in years, only soft ones. I think things started getting worse a year and a half ago. Before that, we found a way to manage it by only giving him veg every other day or every two days. But in the last year and a half, it’s become more unpredictable. Without probiotics, it’s terrible. With probiotics, his poos are still soft but they’re formed and come out easily rather than in clumps or not at all, but he can still have episodes where things get bad and then they get better after a bit. This time was the longest time which is what raised my concern as he’d gone without veg for 2/3 weeks ish and we’d seen no improvement. We’d had a vet visit after about a week, too. We mentioned if it could be something like IBS but the vet didn’t seem to agree.
Thankfully, something seems to have got right out of nowhere and they’re coming out formed. He’s had more coriander today, if the poos are still okay tomorrow then I’ll introduce a bit more veg.
It definitely affects his mood too, since they’ve got better he’s perkier and more lively, always wheeking for food.
It’s just infuriating, seems like a mystery. Like I said, he’s been to the vet many times but they don’t think it’s anything serious or anything to worry about. They give him a thorough check over, get any poos out of him, check his teeth, watch how he walks, etc. But they aren’t concerned, especially when he’s had this issue all his life. But my thing is that it’s getting worse and he’s knocking on a bit now. Every time they get bad, he feels slightly more bloated (but never enough to warrant medication says the vets) and I worry that it’ll be the thing that kills him. Other than that, he’s in perfect health.

 

[PIGGIES FOREVER]

Since I made the post, his poos have finally become formed. We started him with a small amount of coriander yesterday, poos aren’t as good today as yesterday but still formed.
He’s had it all his life, it’s just that it’s got worse with age. There’s nothing that triggers it as we’ve tried several things over the years, removing certain veg, trying different pellets (which in itself answers @PIGGIES FOREVER questions). I’ve pushed several times for stool samples to be sent but it’s never happened as the vets never think it’s worth doing. For example they’ve told me if it’s anything like parasites then there’d also be weight loss accompanying it.
It can just be infuriating, he hasn’t had proper firm poos in years, only soft ones. I think things started getting worse a year and a half ago. Before that, we found a way to manage it by only giving him veg every other day or every two days. But in the last year and a half, it’s become more unpredictable. Without probiotics, it’s terrible. With probiotics, his poos are still soft but they’re formed and come out easily rather than in clumps or not at all, but he can still have episodes where things get bad and then they get better after a bit. This time was the longest time which is what raised my concern as he’d gone without veg for 2/3 weeks ish and we’d seen no improvement. We’d had a vet visit after about a week, too. We mentioned if it could be something like IBS but the vet didn’t seem to agree.
Thankfully, something seems to have got right out of nowhere and they’re coming out formed. He’s had more coriander today, if the poos are still okay tomorrow then I’ll introduce a bit more veg.
It definitely affects his mood too, since they’ve got better he’s perkier and more lively, always wheeking for food.
It’s just infuriating, seems like a mystery. Like I said, he’s been to the vet many times but they don’t think it’s anything serious or anything to worry about. They give him a thorough check over, get any poos out of him, check his teeth, watch how he walks, etc. But they aren’t concerned, especially when he’s had this issue all his life. But my thing is that it’s getting worse and he’s knocking on a bit now. Every time they get bad, he feels slightly more bloated (but never enough to warrant medication says the vets) and I worry that it’ll be the thing that kills him. Other than that, he’s in perfect health.

I'm glad he is getting better.

 

[Lily & Rose]

My piggy went through something similar and I sent a stool sample to the vet and it was found that she had a candida overgrowth in her gut. It can be treated with itrafungol.

 

[Little Ones]

My piggy went through something similar and I sent a stool sample to the vet and it was found that she had a candida overgrowth in her gut. It can be treated with itrafungol.

Interesting, thank you. I might call up tomorrow and ask the receptionist if I can get a stool sample sent, or if they can ask a vet to sign off on it. I’m not sure why they’ve never mentioned this to me before as I’ve asked for a stool sample to be done on several occasions. Did your vet just suggest it straight away or did you have to push for it?

 

[Lily & Rose]

I took the stool sample to the appointment and asked if I could have it tested.

 

[Merab]

Hope that gives you some answers

 

[Little Ones]

I took the stool sample to the appointment and asked if I could have it tested.

Okay thank you. If they don’t agree over the phone, I’ll make an appointment and take it with me. That helps a lot, thanks

 

[Little Ones]

Do you think it’s okay to send a stool sample whilst giving him probiotic? Or should I stop the probiotic to get a sample? I just don’t want to mask the true problem

 

[Lily & Rose]

Do you think it’s okay to send a stool sample whilst giving him probiotic? Or should I stop the probiotic to get a sample? I just don’t want to mask the true problem

I'm not sure. I think it might be best to stop the probiotic a few days before doing the sample just in case.

 

[Little Ones]

Well, I’m still awake. Little’s tummy has been gurgling, I’ve checked him bum and had to get his poo out for him
He feels slightly bloated again too so I’m letting him have a run around on the floor, hoping that helps a bit.

 

[Free Ranger]

Well you were up late! Poor old Little.

Does he do grass or can't he manage that with his missing incisors? Grass, because it comes from outside, tends to have a lot of different types of micro-organisms on so it might help increase the diversity of his microflora.
Is there any difference if you give him organic / non-organic veg? I suppose I'm imagining cheerful carrots with soil on etc. that again might have more micro-organisms on.

The only probiotics I have used (bio-lapis) contain Saccharomyces which is a type of yeast (like the sort used in baking or brewing) and nothing else live as far as I can tell. If you dose up with something like that before a stool sample is taken they'll probably tell you there's a lot of yeast in there but I don't know whether they test for different types.

The last bit is me speculating so feel free to ignore it. Years ago great Grandma once said about 'thrush' (Candida) that "you get it when you're born and when you die" and it's true that, in people, babies and the elderly suffer more with yeast infections, and it's often because of compromised immunity. We've all found out more about the importance of vitamin D to immunity since Covid and it's got me thinking more about my pigs being indoors all winter. It isn't really 'natural' - obviously the 'natural' life isn't that great if you're freezing and frightened and running for your life all the time - I don't mean that. I just mean that as part of caring for George and the girls I sometimes take them out into the garden for a little walk if there's a bit of sunlight. I keep them warm with a fleece and I don't put them down on the wet grass (currently sludge in my patch!) but we go round and get a bit of fresh air. Or I have a cuppa on the bench and they get a bit of lap time. Sometimes I have the back door open for a bit and they get the light through that (light through a glass window apparently cuts out the bit needed to form vitamin D). I wonder if Little might benefit from a 10 minute 'walk' outside? Maybe his immune system would get an extra boost to help him fight any overgrowth of baddies in the gut? As I say, just speculating, but evolution is a darned powerful thing...

 

[Little Ones]

Well you were up late! Poor old Little.

Does he do grass or can't he manage that with his missing incisors? Grass, because it comes from outside, tends to have a lot of different types of micro-organisms on so it might help increase the diversity of his microflora.
Is there any difference if you give him organic / non-organic veg? I suppose I'm imagining cheerful carrots with soil on etc. that again might have more micro-organisms on.

The only probiotics I have used (bio-lapis) contain Saccharomyces which is a type of yeast (like the sort used in baking or brewing) and nothing else live as far as I can tell. If you dose up with something like that before a stool sample is taken they'll probably tell you there's a lot of yeast in there but I don't know whether they test for different types.

The last bit is me speculating so feel free to ignore it. Years ago great Grandma once said about 'thrush' (Candida) that "you get it when you're born and when you die" and it's true that, in people, babies and the elderly suffer more with yeast infections, and it's often because of compromised immunity. We've all found out more about the importance of vitamin D to immunity since Covid and it's got me thinking more about my pigs being indoors all winter. It isn't really 'natural' - obviously the 'natural' life isn't that great if you're freezing and frightened and running for your life all the time - I don't mean that. I just mean that as part of caring for George and the girls I sometimes take them out into the garden for a little walk if there's a bit of sunlight. I keep them warm with a fleece and I don't put them down on the wet grass (currently sludge in my patch!) but we go round and get a bit of fresh air. Or I have a cuppa on the bench and they get a bit of lap time. Sometimes I have the back door open for a bit and they get the light through that (light through a glass window apparently cuts out the bit needed to form vitamin D). I wonder if Little might benefit from a 10 minute 'walk' outside? Maybe his immune system would get an extra boost to help him fight any overgrowth of baddies in the gut? As I say, just speculating, but evolution is a darned powerful thing...

He can eat grass but it’s not good for his poos at all, even when we build up slowly. During his teeth troubles, he was on grass and his poos were horrific.
Bio-lapis is the probiotic we use for him. We gave him some yesterday but are hoping to take a stool sample Wednesday (Little is having his teeth burred Wednesday so makes sense). If we don’t give him anymore, will it be out of his stool on Wednesday?
I can definitely try taking him outside, I understand your line of thinking with everything. I’ll give it a go anyway.
His tummy is still gurgling this morning, I hoped it would stop

 

[Little Ones]

Rang the vets this morning asking about a stool sample. The vet just called us back and agreed to it. Little saw that vet a few weeks ago and we explained the problem was still the same and he’s at an age where a condition like this is massively affecting his quality of life and may also shorten his life. Anyway, a stool sample was agreed to. We can take it tomorrow, however maybe it would be best to do it Thursday or even Friday? I’m just wondering when the probiotic will be out of his stool. I don’t want that to sway the results.

 

[Lily & Rose]

I've looked up the criteria for humans and it says to stop probiotic 3-7 days before doing a stool test. Are you able to ring the vet back to ask them to confirm this?

 

[Little Ones]

I've looked up the criteria for humans and it says to stop probiotic 3-7 days before doing a stool test. Are you able to ring the vet back to ask them to confirm this?

We can try, I don’t think the receptionist knew much though. We asked how many grams it had to be too once we were passed back over but she didn’t know. If we need to wait, then I will just to be sure

 

[VickiA]

Has your vet considered whether he may have liver issues? It might be worth discussing whether some liver support in the form of milk thistle.

 

[Little Ones]

Has your vet considered whether he may have liver issues? It might be worth discussing whether some liver support in the form of milk thistle.

No, i haven’t been offered any solutions or theories to be honest. All the vets I’ve seen about it have said it’s nothing to worry about.
Liver issues aren’t something I’ve thought of either. I had a piggy previously with liver disease, we did notice really bad poos with him too but also excessive thirst and extreme weight loss which Little doesn’t have. Do you think he could have a liver issue with the only symptom being dodgy poos?
If I’m remembering right, we can buy milk thistle ourselves? My only concern is that my vet won’t recommend to use it unless liver issues have been confirmed. I’m wary of Little having a blood test to do this as he was 6 around September time so the anaesthetic is worrying to me.
If the stool sample doesn’t show anything, then it may be something to look into further

 

[VickiA]

I’d definitely discuss it with your vet. You can buy milk thistle yourself of the vet thinks it may help.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Sending you hugs, I hope you can find out what’s wrong with Little, such a shame poor lad, just when he was happy and settled with his new companion x

 

[Little Ones]

Sending you hugs, I hope you can find out what’s wrong with Little, such a shame poor lad, just when he was happy and settled with his new companion x

Thank you, hes been dealing with it all his life but it’s just been getting unmanageable recently. Fingers crossed a stool sample shows something that’s easily fixed!xx

 

[Little Ones]

We gave a sample in today. We wanted to wait an appropriate amount of time for the probiotic to leave his system. They’re sending it to the lab for analysis, they were just going to do an in house one which they told me isn’t in depth at all (maybe just for parasites?) but I asked for it to be sent to the lab. I couldn’t believe how much prices have gone up, 2 years ago we had Honey’s stool sent away to the lab (he had already been diagnosed with liver disease but the vet understood I wanted to cover all bases for my peace of mind) and it was £70. This time to send it to the lab was £170! Once I mentioned the previous price, the receptionist spoke to the vet and I believe unchecked some of the things to test for and got it down to £80.
Anyway, I’m rambling. They said if they didn’t have enough stool then they’d contact me. They also told me things will take longer because of covid.
My main thing is that I want to get Little back on his probiotic to try and sort him out as he’s not having a great time. When should I do this? Should I just wait to see what the results come back as (whenever this will be)? Should I do it straight away? Should I wait a day or two just in case they need more stool?

 

[Free Ranger]

I'd be tempted to go back on the probiotic in the short term if it helps him. You don't know how long you're going to be waiting - either for the result or for the request for more sample. If they're going to try and grow up bacteria/yeasts from the sample that can take anything from a few hours to a few days depending on the type. Chemical tests are quicker. Covid throws it all up in the air.

I don't even think I need to say that he's getting on a bit and this result might not be able to tell you anything definitive. You might be heading into the phase of just managing his old age - which breaks our heart, but he doesn't know that. He's just bothered about being comfortable (and not being humped by Digby too much!)

 

[Little Ones]

I'd be tempted to go back on the probiotic in the short term if it helps him. You don't know how long you're going to be waiting - either for the result or for the request for more sample. If they're going to try and grow up bacteria/yeasts from the sample that can take anything from a few hours to a few days depending on the type. Chemical tests are quicker. Covid throws it all up in the air.

I don't even think I need to say that he's getting on a bit and this result might not be able to tell you anything definitive. You might be heading into the phase of just managing his old age - which breaks our heart, but he doesn't know that. He's just bothered about being comfortable (and not being humped by Digby too much!)

All of that makes sense, I’ll get him back on it then. I want to help him out as much as I can.
I was talking the receptionists yesterday about that, that it could be related to his age but it needs figuring out either way. He will be 7 in around September. I hope it’s something we can treat easily enough, I don’t want further testing beyond a stool sample (unless it’s a conscious X-ray) as I’m not happy with him going under anaesthetic. Even Simon didn’t want him going under anaesthetic again if we can help it.
His weight is stable more or less. He started having a dip a few days ago, I had the intention to weigh him everyday but it slipped my mind some days for one reason or another. This is his weight chart from December to now:
We weigh him at about 5pm, morning would be better but we started in the afternoon the first ever time and I don’t want to throw off the chart by transitioning to morning.
Hopefully he will have gained more when we weigh him later. The 12 Jan reading was the lowest he’s been since before October. If the weight loss gets bigger and we get nothing from the stool sample then it seems we’re dealing with a potential organ issue.
I just hope the sample brings back something good for us, I know I’ve had him just over 6 years but I’m not ready to accept he might not be with us for as long as I had hoped. I also know it could easily be old age and we will manage him the best we can and it doesn’t necessarily mean we will lose him soon.
I don’t think we’ll ever be able to re-bond Digby when Little goes. If they’re both together for about a year then we might have a chance but any less than that then I can’t see it. I don’t think we’ll find an old boar as patient as Little for him.

 

[Free Ranger]

Well BB was looking through the bars at one point wasn't he? Maybe if Digby starts looking back BB will interact again. Lets not think about that until we have to though eh. Little might outlive them all at this rate! My mum used to say "don't worry now, after all you might go under a bus tomorrow" Always cheerful!

 

[Little Ones]

Well BB was looking through the bars at one point wasn't he? Maybe if Digby starts looking back BB will interact again. Lets not think about that until we have to though eh. Little might outlive them all at this rate! My mum used to say "don't worry now, after all you might go under a bus tomorrow" Always cheerful!

Yes they were talking to each other through the bars, I think Digby will have to be neighbours with BB and baby pig (think we’re calling him Toffee, he’s not a baby pig anymore! His testicles began descending late last week!) I just don’t think he will bond again with anything other than a neighbour.
But I know that there’s no point thinking about that. We thought Peanut would outlive Little as he was younger and was the picture of health aside from his IC. We noticed he was losing weight, started investigating what was going on and 2 weeks later he was gone. Piggies can be so unpredictable and anything can happen at any time. So I’m trying not to even plan for the future, I had done that with Peanut for when Little passed and it was in vain.

 

[Little Ones]

Update:
We waited a week after stopping the probiotic to collect the stool sample and we just got the results back today. Little has a yeast infection. I’m hoping the bio lapis probiotic was completely out of his system and it hasn’t swayed the results.
The medication is being ordered into the vets and should be here on Saturday for us to collect. Fingers crossed we are able to get him sorted for good.

 

[RedLoredAmazon]

Poor Little! I just read through this thread. Hopefully the medication will help out and Little will be feeling much better soon!