Conscious dentals - the advantages!

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

There are so many advantages to conscious dentals and I would like to highlight a few of them here!

1. For guinea pigs with ongoing dental issues, it wouldn't be appropriate to anaethetise a guinea pig every few weeks. We have a number of residents here at TEAS, who require two weekly dentals. As long as they receive this very quick tidy up of their teeth, they eat completely normally and you wouldn't be able to tell they have a dental problem, just by observing them. However, without this quick and regular treatment, they wouldn't be alive.

2. When a guinea pig is under anaesthetic, the soft tissue in the mouth goes all floppy, making it very difficult to see the very back of the mouth. Also, as the blood pressure drops, whilst under anaesthetic, any areas of inflammation in the mouth, are not so obvious, as the inflammed areas look a much more normal colour. This can be the reason for so many guinea pigs being found to have no dental issues, after examination under GA, when they actually have a large amount of ulceration and inflammation, or a nasty spike at the very back of the mouth.

3. Not having to get over an anaesthetic, means the guinea pig can start to eat immediately. This is so important, as the teeth grow continuously. I have seen so many guinea pigs start to eat straight after a conscious dental, despite not eating for many weeks, or even months, prior to their treatment.


Just for information - during a conscious dental, the guinea pig is wrapped and held securely, on a flat surface, with all feet on that surface. They are not tipped backwards or held upside down. A dental bur is only used on the incisors and the back teeth are filed (never clipped). The procedure does not hurt the guinea pig, and once a the teeth are no longer rubbing or cutting into the sort tissue, the relief feels instantaneous, despite it taking a while for the soft tissue to heal. I have watched a conscious dental and I have no concerns about it being stressful, for the guinea pig and watching them being able to eat, immediately afterwards is amazing!

Not all dental problems need ongoing treatment, for life. Many dental issues can be cured, with regular conscious dentals, at the start. The time between these dentals can then be increased and in many cases, eventually no longer needed.

The guinea pigs of TEAS owe their lives to the amazing skill of our vets, Simon and Kim Maddock and without the regular treatment they receive, would have passed over the rainbow bridge, a long time ago.

Just to add, if I thought for even one minute, that I was putting the guinea pigs through a treatment that was very stressful and detrimental to them, I wouldn't be doing what I do!

 

[T-Rex]

I’d vaguely heard of conscious dentals back when I had rabbits but when I mentioned to my vet was immediately shut down. And since having piggies learnt again of them and then found out that it’s essentially two vet practices in the county who will do it.
What a shame more vets aren’t open to learning this skill and trying it. Like you say it’s changed the life of your TEAS pigs and sooo many forum pigs.
Fingers crossed more vets pick up on this and offer it as the benefits you’ve listed are huge.
I’d not realised about the blood pressure too hiding what was really going on in their little mouths.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I can certainly vouch for concious dentals performed by Simon and Kim Maddock, they saved my Ted’s life!
Putting an animal through General Anaesthetic is far more stressful in my opinion and from my experience. Such a shame some vets are open to learn.
There is also another lovely vet in Brixham Devon who does conscious dentals called Jess, Dart Vale Veterinary Practice too, so that’s three we know of

 

[Tigermoth]

I don’t know how they manage though. Just taking a peek in my pairs mouth to see what I can for a health check shows me their front teeth and cheeks! I can’t ever see any further!

 

[alpacasqueak]

I’m totally for conscious dentals, I wish more vets would learn how to do them so less pigs (and chins etc) would suffer with terrible ones done under GA.
My Sheepy pig would not have had the quality of life he did for his last few months after his stroke many years ago without them, he was too weak to be getting ‘knocked out’ for his. And my chinchillas would not have lived the longer lives they did without them!
Poppy was going for over 5 years for hers, she was a total mess after GA dentals with my local vets, I was syringe feeding round the clock but the day after we saw Simon she was eating a bit for herself again! And of course my amazing Pedro’s last year would not have been the happy one it was and he’d have been PTS if it wasn’t for brilliant Simon and his dentistry skills!

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I don’t know how they manage though. Just taking a peek in my pairs mouth to see what I can for a health check shows me their front teeth and cheeks! I can’t ever see any further!

They use gags that hold mouth open and the cheeks away from the teeth, so they get a good view of the whole mouth!

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

What I find extemely frustrating, is how many vets dismiss the idea of conscious dentals, without even knowing much about it. Also, regardless of whether the dental is done under GA or with the piggy conscious, it is about doing it correctly, and sadly that doesn't seem to happen very often!

I know of an owner who took her guinea pig back to her local vet, who had said euthenasia was the only option, to show him how we had completely cured her guinea pig. His response to what Simon had achieved and what we do here at TEAS was 'it's a bit Alice in Wonderland...ish'. How dare he! Simon is extremely skilled and I work so hard with the guinea pigs here!

 

[alpacasqueak]

Yes it wasn’t the GA that was the issue with my Poppy, more that the vets said they could do dentals on a little 600g chinchilla and obviously had no clue!
Feel guilty for it now but it was before I knew better So glad we found Simon!

 

[Bradshaw Piggies]

My poor boy Odin had over 6 GAs in a month with other vets (who still didn't correct the dental problem), that was until I found Kim and Simon via the people on this wonderful forum.

Odin coped very well with concious dentals (even in a very very frail state), and if it wasn't for these dentals and the help of Kim and Simon, he wouldn't have had the amazing, happiest months of his life that he did! The time between his dentals did increase. Him coping with the dental work whilst in such poor condition and so poorly (with other health issues going on also), just proves that the treatment is not detrimental to them. Any time we handle pigs is additional stress, but the knowledge and skill of Kim and Simon very much helped my boy through any procedure.


It is a huge shame that other vets don't have the expertise in this area to be able to offer concious dentals for so many more piggies around the world. Personally, I will never use any other vets for any dental work for my boys; and honestly cannot thank the C&R centre enough for everything they have done for us.

And though completely off topic, I just wanted to add that our horses have regularly dental work, a gag fitted and have teeth filed and it is not painful for creatures that have teeth that grow in this way. They have this done regularly. The only difference being we can't hold them down whilst the work is done!

 

[anyar.dris]

I've had quite a few dental piggies over the years that became patients of Simon and Kim. I would not think of bringing them elsewhere, especially if it's a dental problem. We only took Rocky to a different vet 4 weeks ago because Simon and Kim were on holiday. We know the other vet would not do a good job but it was a risk we took, unfortunately.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I don’t know how they manage though. Just taking a peek in my pairs mouth to see what I can for a health check shows me their front teeth and cheeks! I can’t ever see any further!

This is why they use cheek separators and dental gag, just like you get when you go for a long dental appt to have work done. Once the two are in place you can see right to the back of the throat, all the teeth can be seen it’s amazing! You can never check teeth properly using just a pen torch

 

[Bill & Ted]

Both my Bill and Ted had dental problems which were totally different. Bill had problem incisors after he broke one. Ted developed a dental spur at the age of 3 years. My local vet did a GA dental and he never ate hardly anything for 6 weeks apart from syringe food and beetroot salad sticks and grass (hand fed by me) Ted had not eaten hay since April of that year and we eventually found this forum and with help from Debbie and other members we managed to get him up to see Simon in around July, about 2 weeks after finding out about this amazing vet. Within 10 minutes of the dental he was eating hay! I was totally blown away by what Simon had done 10 minutes earlier and overjoyed, as my local vet had talked about the only option was PTS. Simon kept Ted eating for 2.5 years plus, when in December still doing very well with regular conscious dentals Ted was found to have a tumour/stone on his right kidney and was PTS a week later as he was poorly again within that week. But his teeth were absolutely fine
Bill broke his incisor soon after Ted’s problem, so Simon would burr Bill’s dodgy incisor along with Ted’s dental. I once asked Simon how he managed the dental burr (rather like a Dremel) and he said he placed his thumb nail behind the incisor so he could tell when the burr was about to come through the back of the tooth so as to protect the piggies mouth. He could instinctively know when the burr was a fraction of a millimetre when this would happen, he‘s been doing it for such a long time, it was second nature to him.
Simon and Kim are brilliant vets, although we had to travel a 600 miles round trip each time, I would not trust any of my guinea pigs to any other vet when dentals or most other stuff serious is concerned

 

[Merab]

That’s really helpful @furryfriends (TEAS) .
Thank you.

 

[eileen]

This is so true,ive had two dental piggies,the recovery was staggering.one vet i used for a piggie refused to see my piggie that had severe bloat because the vet disagreed with the practises of dentals without a GA.Due to this my piggie passed away as i could not find a local vet who would treat my piggie,and the C & R vets were on holiday.i just wish they/VETS would look at the statistics and observe the proceedure from vets who know how to do unconcious xrays before passing judgement.in memory of Jerry my piggie ,i hope other vets are willing to learn.

 

[Bill & Ted]

This is so true,ive had two dental piggies,the recovery was staggering.one vet i used for a piggie refused to see my piggie that had severe bloat because the vet disagreed with the practises of dentals without a GA.Due to this my piggie passed away as i could not find a local vet who would treat my piggie,and the C & R vets were on holiday.i just wish they/VETS would look at the statistics and observe the proceedure from vets who know how to do unconcious xrays before passing judgement.in memory of Jerry my piggie ,i hope other vets are willing to learn.

yes it’s such a shame when professionals are unwilling to learn and see the huge benefits of conscious dentals. No aesthetic, no bloat problems and tummy troubles afterwards, often not eating hay or any food afterward, drowsy state for a couple of days and a whole hoast of other nasties. And they say conscious dentals are stressful! I know which procedure I’d put my piggie through if I had the choice! But then a 10 minute dental is cheap compared to the gravy train of continuing General Anaesthetic procedures and medicines afterwards!

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

What I find extemely frustrating, is how many vets dismiss the idea of conscious dentals, without even knowing much about it.

I know of an owner who took her guinea pig back to her local vet, who had said euthenasia was the only option, to show him how we had completely cured her guinea pig. His response to what Simon had achieved and what we do here at TEAS was 'it's a bit Alice in Wonderland...ish'. How dare he! Simon is extremely skilled and I work so hard with the guinea pigs here!

That must have made you crazy! And a totally out of order comment when what had actually happened was the combination of your dedication and the skill of a specialist vet had saved an animal 's life!

Of course there was a time when Simon too dismissed the idea of conscious dentals. It took some persuading to make him have a go - on a piggy of mine called Damson. I think having started with a staff pet then gave him confidence to carry on and around that time you turned up with Poppet (a dedicated owner with a pig requiring long term dental care), so it was something of a perfect storm that got him started.

I think there are a number of reasons vets don't want to try. One being the worry of nicking that big artery at the back of the mouth, if that happens its game over for the piggy and I think they worry a conscious pig might move, increasing the risk of this happening, especially if they don't have nursing staff who are familiar and confident with handling guinea pigs and understand them.

It is a shame that more vets don't take that leap of faith like Simon did, especially as he has now led the way and his results speak for themselves.

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

I can't understand why vets would be so against conscious dentals for piggies, when the alternative, going under GA regularly, is risky. How many people would go for treatment at the dental hygienist if they had to have GA every time?

 

[Swissgreys]

I can't understand why vets would be so against conscious dentals for piggies, when the alternative, going under GA regularly, is risky. How many people would go for treatment at the dental hygienist if they had to have GA every time?

( found this thread really interesting and very educational.
I have never witnessed a conscious dental myself, so it was great to hear Debbie's experience of this.

However (to play devils advocate here) I can also fully understand why many vets have no interest in further pursuing the idea of conscious dentals.
The time, money and effort required fo them to be able to do this reliably and successfully is high, and the reality is that the return on their investment is likely to be fairly low.

Please remember that most of us will never have access to a vet who can offer a conscious dental, and we represent (in general) the educated, responsible and committed guinea pig owners who seek medical treatment when required.
The reality is we are in the minority, and many guinea pigs will live out their lives without ever being taken to a vet at all.

I have had several guinea pigs undergo dental work, and with an experienced vet and a light GA they have also recovered well and been eating again within minutes of coming around. This is not something that can only be achieved with a conscious procedure.

Whilst I am the first to admit that conscious dentals certainly offer many benefits, for the majority of us who will never have this option, seeking out an experienced vet and opting for a dental with a GA is still an excellent option.

I also think it is wrong to generalise about how much stress either option causes, as this is a very personal thing.

For me personally I underwent a knee replacement surgery with only a spinal block (think power tools and some fairly brutal hammering). In honestly this was my choice, and I was not overly bothered by the whole procedure (although I was always given the option to be heavily sedated at any point). However if I could have heavy sedation at the dental hygienist I would chose this without hesitation - for me (personally) anything dental is deeply stressful.

So whilst conscious dentals are unquestionably a wonderful option, I personally feel this is not always the best option for all dental problems, and is certainly not the only way to deal with dental disease in guinea pigs.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

That must have made you crazy! And a totally out of order comment when what had actually happened was the combination of your dedication and the skill of a specialist vet had saved an animal 's life!

Of course there was a time when Simon too dismissed the idea of conscious dentals. It took some persuading to make him have a go - on a piggy of mine called Damson. I think having started with a staff pet then gave him confidence to carry on and around that time you turned up with Poppet (a dedicated owner with a pig requiring long term dental care), so it was something of a perfect storm that got him started.

I think there are a number of reasons vets don't want to try. One being the worry of nicking that big artery at the back of the mouth, if that happens its game over for the piggy and I think they worry a conscious pig might move, increasing the risk of this happening, especially if they don't have nursing staff who are familiar and confident with handling guinea pigs and understand them.

It is a shame that more vets don't take that leap of faith like Simon did, especially as he has now led the way and his results speak for themselves.

Just think how different it could all be, if you hadn't persuaded Simon to trial a conscious dental on Damson and then I came along with Poppet. I've often thought how, if Poppet hadn't had dental issues, I wouldn't be doing any of this!

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

( found this thread really interesting and very educational.
I have never witnessed a conscious dental myself, so it was great to hear Debbie's experience of this.

However (to play devils advocate here) I can also fully understand why many vets have no interest in further pursuing the idea of conscious dentals.
The time, money and effort required fo them to be able to do this reliably and successfully is high, and the reality is that the return on their investment is likely to be fairly low.

Please remember that most of us will never have access to a vet who can offer a conscious dental, and we represent (in general) the educated, responsible and committed guinea pig owners who seek medical treatment when required.
The reality is we are in the minority, and many guinea pigs will live out their lives without ever being taken to a vet at all.

I have had several guinea pigs undergo dental work, and with an experienced vet and a light GA they have also recovered well and been eating again within minutes of coming around. This is not something that can only be achieved with a conscious procedure.

Whilst I am the first to admit that conscious dentals certainly offer many benefits, for the majority of us who will never have this option, seeking out an experienced vet and opting for a dental with a GA is still an excellent option.

I also think it is wrong to generalise about how much stress either option causes, as this is a very personal thing.

For me personally I underwent a knee replacement surgery with only a spinal block (think power tools and some fairly brutal hammering). In honestly this was my choice, and I was not overly bothered by the whole procedure (although I was always given the option to be heavily sedated at any point). However if I could have heavy sedation at the dental hygienist I would chose this without hesitation - for me (personally) anything dental is deeply stressful.

So whilst conscious dentals are unquestionably a wonderful option, I personally feel this is not always the best option for all dental problems, and is certainly not the only way to deal with dental disease in guinea pigs.

I have no problem with how the vet wants to carry out the dental procedure, but sadly so many don't do a good job, regardless of whether the guinea pig is awake or asleep. Only last week we took on a guinea pig, who had seen a vet due to his inability to eat. The vet had given him a GA, checked his mouth, said all was fine and then took x-rays to check the tooth roots. Again, he said all seemed good. The guinea pig was signed over to us, and I took him to see Simon on Wednesday. Simon found very sharp teeth cutting into his cheeks and a long and sharp spike, at the back of the mouth, which was digging into the soft tissue and causing bleeding. Once this was all filed down, the guinea pig was able to eat. How was that all missed by the other vet?