Can someone take a look at this bonding vid please?

tabelmabel

tabelmabel

Adult Guinea Pig
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Belle is the teddy 2yr old sow. Previously lived with a sow and neutered boar. She has been bereaved of both and been alone since mid december.

I am trying to bond her with @flintstones sow, pickle, who is 4 yrs old.

They have been side by side in a divided cage since friday afternoon (48hrs)

And we put them on neutral territory in the same cage today. Clean fleece. New hideys with entrance and exit.


This footage is about 10 mins into the bonding and is the worst spat. Since then, they have stayed apart. Belle is eating but pickle is not.


Can someone experienced in sow bonding please check this vid and say if it can work or has it failed. And also any tips to help it work.

I have since put a big heap of lettuce in the middle but only belle went to it. Pickle seems very scared of belle and runs from her



 
That doesn’t look good I’m afraid. One of them has to back down. The worry is that Pickle isn’t coming out to eat. Sows will usually pull hair as a sign of not liking each other. I don’t think it’s often that they’ll end up in a flying fur ball like that.

As an aside, when bonding you only put in a pile of hay but no hides. You could remove them but that does look very tense.

Hopefully someone else will be along to answer but I think if Pickle isn’t eating or they have a face off again then it may be the end of the road.
 
Thanks for your advice.

The hides are open ended but i can take them out. It is good to have another opinion on the chance of success.

Do you think no chance at all?
 
I think that is the best thing. They didn’t look like they got on in the video. Sorry it hasn’t worked
 
I’m sorry it didn’t work out. It did look really tense. Hope Belle’s ear isn’t too bad.
 
I’m glad it’s all calm again. It’s stressful so I hope you’re okay.
 
Just forcomparison, this is a vid i took when mike was still alive. Belle came as part of a bonded sow pair with mabel. Belle and mabel were 4 months and mike was 3yrs. (Neutered boar)


Unfortunately, we lost mike at Christmas and mabel died very suddenly in april. She was only about 15months. Very sudden and unexpected.


This bonding settled and worked though. I havent done any adult bondings before so very glad of all your advice.

 
Siikibam said:
I’m glad it’s all calm again. It’s stressful so I hope you’re okay.
Click to expand...



Yes, just feeling disappointed as I'm sure @flintstones will be too as we waited a long time to get these pigs together and were hopeful it would work.

I wont be trying any more bondings at home - i will be heading to the rescue @Julie M. Once travelling restrictions are off. I'm still hopeful belle might find a friend that she can be nice to. . . .
 
I’m sorry for your loss.

That bonding doesn’t ‘feel’ as tense as the the one with Belle and Pickle.

I’m sure she will. They just weren’t a good match. Are you going to keep them alongside each other for now?
 
You're right - although it was lively, i wasnt worried about it. It wasnt a good year last year losing mabel and mike. But i suppose that's what can happen with pigs. We lost benson in 2019, but prior to that we had had a good run of healthy years. To lose 2 in one year was just awful
Siikibam said:
That bonding doesn’t ‘feel’ as tense as the the one with Belle and Pickle.

I’m sure she will. They just weren’t a good match. Are you going to keep them alongside each other for now?
Click to expand...


Yes, i have chatted to flintstones and am going to keep them side by side until i can get over to the rescue (it is 2hrs drive away)

If belle cannot be matched to any other pig, i will keep her next to pickle as it seems good for both of them. Ideally i would like belle to have someone she can live with and, as she is only 2yrs, i dont want her on her own long term
 
I love Mike's wee popcorn; he now has girlies! Mike was very similar to Pickle - bless him, that bonding was night and day.

Guinea pigs; Can be complicated little creature's. I am gutted it didn't work, as I knew Pickle would be well looked after with Tabelmabel. I have made the decision that I can't continue the cycle anymore, although it's not fair Pickle remains friendless which is the reason for me looking for a suitable friend it's important she goes to a good home or that I can perhaps foster a guinea pig friend for her.

I'm Glad they can stay side by side for the meantime as it's better for both of them. Once lockdown eases and we can try to find both pig's a friend if possible and if not side by side is the next best thing!
 
I’m sorry. Hopefully Belle has a long run ahead of her.

It is always ideal to have a live-in friend. But don’t feel it’s your doing if she doesn’t get on with one enough to share space. I guess they can be picky like us humans. Some people just rub you the wrong way...I can think of one person who gives me the 🙄🤨😒 feeling just thinking about their name!
 
Good that you have separated with @flinstones girl not backing down despite not winning in the leadership stakes; that is always the big hurdle in adult sow bonding. The blood is just from a misjudged swipe, which can happen in these kind od situations.
 
Wiebke said:
Good that you have separated with @flinstones girl not backing down despite not winning in the leadership stakes; that is always the big hurdle in adult sow bonding. The blood is just from a misjudged swipe, which can happen in these kind od situations.
Click to expand...

@Wiebke from the video I thought Pickle wasn't challenging Belle. Do you think both pig's were challenging and that Pickle was trying to stand her ground despite losing?
 
Interestingly, pickle has been right up at the divider again, even trying to get some food through from belle's side.

Belle, on the other hand, looks as if she has taken the huff! She is sitting away from the divider with her back to it!

They are funny little creatures for sure :doh:


This is what i would like ideally for belle


_20190421_170311.webp


That was mike and benson. They were hilarious together. Mike was like wee piglet from winnie the pooh and benson was e or, the slow and steady one. Any time the cage layout changed or anything new appeared, mike would run all around benson, eager to tell him the news.

And benson was like 'what is all the fuss about'

Benson especially was just a pig in a million. Miss him loads!
 
So sorry th8ngs didn’t work out between them, sows are a mystery and are very complex characters x
 


I will put this vid up too. It is very long - over 5 mins. Might be of interest to @flintstones . It was taken before the fight. But there are maybe some clues here that things were going to escalate - if anyone does have time to watch and pick things out what led to everything going wrong, i'd be interested to hear if this was on course for failure all along.

You can hear some comment from me on it - and points where i thought things looked hopeful. But maybe i missed a lot of signs?
 
flintstones said:
@Wiebke from the video I thought Pickle wasn't challenging Belle. Do you think both pig's were challenging and that Pickle was trying to stand her ground despite losing?
Click to expand...

It was actually not aggressive but more fear-aggressive from the under-piggy side; but there was a definite disagreement. The leadership is being pushed once the stronger piggy has been established; that is the normal next step. It all depends on whether the 'loser' accepts or not.
When you look at the bonding guide, you can see quite a of lot of classic behaviours.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
 
Wiebke said:
It was actually not aggressive but more fear-aggressive from the under-piggy side; but there was a definite disagreement. The leadership is being pushed once the stronger piggy has been established; that is the normal next step. It all depends on whether the 'loser' accepts or not.
When you look at the bonding guide, you can see quite a of lot of classic behaviours.
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Click to expand...

I'm curious; Do you think separating was the right decision or was it possible that they could reach an agreement and live together?
 
flintstones said:
I'm curious; Do you think separating was the right decision or was it possible that they could reach an agreement and live together?
Click to expand...

You can try a meeting again in a few days; see how they interact through the bars in the meantime. Personally I think it is rather borderline and is a bit more likely come down on the NO than the YES. If there is an agreement to not agree, then this will show in the dynamic between them, which will become more and more grumpy as the dominance phase goes on.
 
I have to say it isnt looking too hopeful right now. Pickle seems to be the one who has bounced right back, lively around her section and quite perky.

Belle is still in the huff. She is sitting in her hide but there is still a bit of teeth chattering from belle now and again. (Or it might be a low rumble but it doesnt sound too happy whatever it is)

There hasnt been any of that happy vocal chit chat you get between pigs at all - not even before this meeting.

Having said that, belle had been much more active since pickle arrived. She was very quiet on her own since when mike died to when pickle arrived and spent many hours in her fleece hidey but since pickle arrived, she has been moving about more and i was very hopeful she was going to bond well with pickle.


I will see how they go over the next few days.
 
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