Can I leave two un-bonded boars together overnight?

[holytoledo]

Hi. I'm trying to bond my boars, Ive posted previously. I do currently have them separated now but in the same cage (2X6 C&C cage.)
Ive been trying to bond them on neuter terroritory, but I messed up a few times and I realized I messed up when Lance was nibbling on Gaston's ear and I feared he was trying to bite him and hurt him, so I pushed lance away. At the end of that session it was a lot of humping, submissive squeaking and Gaston had a wet spot on his butt afterwards.
Now Ive had them to where they can see eachother, but I have not let them 'live' together. Is it safe for me to release the barrier and allow them to work it out? Or is there a danger to that where one could be seriously hurt.. I'm not sure how to do this process, but there is occasional teeth chattering and rumbling from Lance's side.
I'm tempted to give it a test run and let them waltz about with eachother for a day, but I'm afraid of one getting hurt.

 

[Piggies&buns]

You need to introduce them on neutral territory.
Put them somewhere where neither of them see as their territory for several hours and leave them to bond. While they are in the neutral territory area, you can clean down the cage they are to live in together. After several hours in the neutral area, if things are going well, then you can move them back to the cage together and then leave them together from then on.
If they have been living in each of the current cage but divided, if you simply remove the barrier, then they may see the other piggy wandering in their half as a territory invasion which may cause problems.

You are going to see lots of dominance behaviours while they are in the neutral territory but it is important to leave them to get on with it unless there is a full on fight

It’s a one time, all of nothing thing – they either get on and can remain together, or the bonding fails and they need to remain separate.

The guide below explains how to carry out a bonding

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

 

[holytoledo]

You need to introduce them on neutral territory.
Put them somewhere where neither of them see as their territory for several hours and leave them to bond. While they are in the neutral territory area, you can clean down the cage they are to live in together. After several hours in the neutral area, if things are going well, then you can move them back to the cage together and then leave them together from then on.
If they have been living in each of the current cage but divided, if you simply remove the barrier, then they may see the other piggy wandering in their half as a territory invasion which may cause problems.

You are going to see lots of dominance behaviours while they are in the neutral territory but it is important to leave them to get on with it unless there is a full on fight

It’s a one time, all of nothing thing – they either get on and can remain together, or the bonding fails and they need to remain separate.

The guide below explains how to carry out a bonding

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Ive already introduced them on neutral territory but it was only for 1-2 hours. Would it be okay for me to clean the cage out, disinfect it and wipe it down throughly and use clean bedding? Everything will be changed around.
And how do I know if its a full on fight?

 

[Wiebke]

Ive already introduced them on neutral territory but it was only for 1-2 hours. Would it be okay for me to clean the cage out, disinfect it and wipe it down throughly and use clean bedding? Everything will be changed around.
And how do I know if its a full on fight?

Hi

Please don't use the cage for bonding. Be aware that this should always happen on neutral territory that is not part either party's usual patch. Guinea pigs have a much finer sense of smell and their surroundings than we humans; we underestimate that to our own sorrow.
You have to also accept that every time to separate boars you abort the bonding process and force the boars to start right back in square one again the next time they meet. Your initial meeting was basically voided the moment you plit them and they have to do it all over again. Please also be aware that the whole bonding process is not just an hour or two but it lasts on average two weeks.
Once you have committed, you need to ride the tiger and see it through. If you are unsure but there is no sign of aggression, it is better to leave your piggies in the bonding area overnight rather than putting them into their new cage. The more of the rough hierarchy/group establishment bonding stuff they can get out of the way, the better they will get on in the cage without loads of renewed dominance.

Please follow our advice re. furnishings with two exits, 2 bottles an sprinkle-feeding around the cage in order to minimise dominance and potential flashpoints where a piggy can be cornered.

Please read our comprehensive illustrated step-by-step bonding and behaviour guides; you will find them very helpful as they contain exactly the detailed, practical in-depth information you are looking for and which we cannot repeat at length in every post. They will take you through the whole process in detail with the attendant behaviours and dynamics:
- Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
- Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

- A - Z of Guinea Pig Behaviours
- A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

All the best!

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ive already introduced them on neutral territory but it was only for 1-2 hours. Would it be okay for me to clean the cage out, disinfect it and wipe it down throughly and use clean bedding? Everything will be changed around.
And how do I know if its a full on fight?

Wiebke has already answered the questions above, in that because you separated them, then everything was undone and is now as if it never happened. You need to start right from the beginning and put them on neutral territory again (not just cleaning the cage down) and see it through the bonding through properly to conclusion.

A full on fight is completely unmistakable - it will be a fur ball rolling around fight.

 

[holytoledo]

Wiebke has already answered the questions above, in that because you separated them, then everything was undone and is now as if it never happened. You need to start right from the beginning and put them on neutral territory again (not just cleaning the cage down) and see it through the bonding through properly to conclusion.

A full on fight is completely unmistakable - it will be a fur ball rolling around fight.

Ive made a temporary pen out of the extra wire cubes I had to replicate the same size of their current pen. Theres a lot more teeth chattering than the first one, and my previous pen was a bit smaller. However this time humping is barely possible as Gaston has plenty of room to run, and seems to be showing more teeth this time around. I'm exhausted and kind of worried since if they dont bond, i wont know what to do with gaston. I just got him and Id hate to put him back for adoption, but i only have enough room for 2 guinea pigs, I cant just buy two more to try to bond with these two, and not even a third. i feel like I'm failing as a guinea pig parent.
Currently lance is eating hay and romane in the middle, and gaston is in the corner.

 

[Piggies&buns]

As it’s been several hours since you posted this, how have things been?

 

[holytoledo]

As it’s been several hours since you posted this, how have things been?

I think its going well? I slept and only woke up to them teeth chittering at eachother, but then they just stopped. I'm not sure what it was about.
Ill leave them in there as long as they need to, but so far so good? Last night Gaston was sitting in the anti-hump hidey (not specifically for that but he seems to run into it to hide away when lance is trying to hump him) and lance was laying beside the box, so kind of like anti-contact cuddling?
They were also eating together, but would occasionally do the waltz rumble walk again, and it seemed like lance kept trying to push up gaston's chin, but it didnt evolve to anything else.
I'm a little scared of the process still but, no fights has broken out, just seems like "I dont like you but I'm tolerating you" behavior?

 

[Piggies&buns]

I think its going well? I slept and only woke up to them teeth chittering at eachother, but then they just stopped. I'm not sure what it was about.
Ill leave them in there as long as they need to, but so far so good? Last night Gaston was sitting in the anti-hump hidey (not specifically for that but he seems to run into it to hide away when lance is trying to hump him) and lance was laying beside the box, so kind of like anti-contact cuddling?
They were also eating together, but would occasionally do the waltz rumble walk again, and it seemed like lance kept trying to push up gaston's chin, but it didnt evolve to anything else.
I'm a little scared of the process still but, no fights has broken out, just seems like "I dont like you but I'm tolerating you" behavior?

You don’t want any hides in the bonding pen, it should just be a pile of hay. Hides can be added once they are ok with each other and back in the cage.
Do all your hides have two exits?

 

[holytoledo]

You don’t want any hides in the bonding pen, it should just be a pile of hay. Hides can be added once they are ok with each other and back in the cage.
Do all your hides have two exits?

Yes. I specifically cut all of them to have two exits. And that seems to be something I hear two different things of. Some guinea pig sites say to have them because in their normal habitat they would have them, and not having them creates more stress. But I did actually believe they were making faster progress the first time I tried with no hideys.
But yes, pile of hay is in the middle, so we are good there. Currently something a bit different is happening though, I thought Gaston was the submissive but hes chasing lance around every once in a while, but no attempts to hump him or touch him are made, just kinda looks at lance.
*Edit: currently lance and gaston are eating on opposite sides of the hay pile.