Can a sow be dominant over a boar?

[Bekialice]

Hiya all!

I've been looking for an answer for a few days to this.

I've just rescued a 1-2 year old sow from the RSPCA. She was found in a bag for life on a washing line, and she's bold and brave and one of those rare guinea pigs that just isn't afraid of anything. She sleeps wherever she likes, she lets you pick her up from the cage without any fuss and she'll happily sit on the sofa and chat away to me.

So she's been living in an adjoining part of a C&C for almost 2 weeks to my other two. One is a 2-3 year old skinny sow and the other is a 3-4 year old neutered rescued boar.

I've put them in the kitchen to try for a bond today and it's become apparent that the new sow will not back down for anyone. She's humping my boar and after a few hours, he's just sort of letting her and not running away much.
There's plenty of teeth chattering, chatty squeeking, chin lifting, slight standing ups, small nips (nothing serious) and rumble strutting between the three of them. I've not had to throw any tea towels or seperate yet but I am keeping a very close eye.

My main question is, can a sow be dominant in a mixed group like this or should I expect it to turn at some point?

Thanks all

Xx

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes
The sows have their own hierarchy between them but the boar is not part of this. He is only part of group hierarchy so he may come way down the pecking order

A Closer Look At Pairs (Boars - Sows - Mixed)
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

 

[Bill & Ted]

I have a young couple Hector and Kiki, Hector 1 year and Kiki 6 months both rescues. Kiki is most definitely the boss and has been from the start at 4 weeks old. Hector knows his place
I hope the girls sort out their hierarchy and your little boar will slot in “his place”

 

[Bekialice]

Yes
The sows have their own hierarchy between them but the boar is not part of this. He is only part of group hierarchy so he may come way down the pecking order

A Closer Look At Pairs (Boars - Sows - Mixed)
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

Ah wicked, those were the links I needed. Thank you!

She's very dominating so I'm interested to see how this goes. I'll keep the thread updated x

 

[Free Ranger]

I've got a very dominant sow who didn't like my boar at all and fought him like a fuzzy lion. He tried his best to look tough but he's naturally gentle. She is now his neighbour - they both have a friend each. George's previous cage-mate was also a sow and also dominant although they didn't fight - he used to hide behind her. In a group situation the sow hierarchy apparently dominates boar interaction - this is what I learned from our failed bonding! Fuzzy Zara was dominant, floofy Louise her gentle pal... George and under-pig Louise really took to each other and this triggered Zara's aggression as she didn't like the look of him! You could sort of tell what was going to happen pretty early on but it took about an hour (if I'm remembering right) for things to kick off in a serious way. I used a bath towel!

George's new pal Flora is a bright and feisty girl who didn't immediately surrender to his rumbling but I think he wore her down in the end. She probably realised that as long as he thought he wore the trousers she could do what she liked - and she was right! When one goes out and then returns the other 'turtles' in and out of the hidey, rumbling away, which triggers the home-comer to rumble along and they both rumble around a bit together! It's not aggressive though, more like a dance-off and is usually finished with a bit of semi-popcorning around... he's a bit fat to popcorn properly

 

[eileen]

its strange as i have seven mixed herds ,i neutered male to 1 to 3 sows,all of the neutered boars are top pig in every group.though sows can be dominant and be the boss.

 

[Wiebke]

I have had all variations over the years. Quite a few sows have been the dominant ones. Especially insecure sows or older sows past the normal pup-bearing age are much keener on being in control, or in total control in the case of fear-aggression. Your sow sounds like she is very insecure/fear-aggressive with other piggies because she has likely deficits in early life socialisation.

By far not all boars are dominant or over-sexed; quite a few are just happy to go along and to be accepted. Sub-adult boars may take over the reigns later on once they reach the prime of their lives but they generally do so gently and diplomatically. As long as one party is OK with allowing the other to dominate them (not gender dependent), you are OK. However, if the level of tension continues to be very high and contentiousl behaviours do not abate, the bonding will fail as fronts will harden.

Clashes happen especially when one of the parties cannot back up their claims but refuses to submit to a new leader; in this case the bonding can fail several days into the post-intro dominance phase, during which a bond is consolidated. The bonding process is only over about 2 weeks after the introduction but it can fail at any stage. It is all down to mutual liking and character compatibility.

Both links include a chapter on fear-aggression:
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour

More about the formative ages (especially the crucial period between weaning and teenage) and single guinea pigs and their issues, which can cause real problems with bonding them later on:
Journey through a Lifetime: The Ages of Guinea Pigs
Single Guinea Pigs - Challenges and Responsibilities

 

[Black piggies]

How sad she was put in a bag for life!

 

[Betsy]

Before Dennis went to The Rainbow Bridge, The Ever Beautiful Betsy was def the boss. They were made for each other and it was love at first sight. Dennis was so laid back I could do anything with him and he didn't mind he was a lovely boy.

Here is Dennis

 

[Bekialice]

I have all variations over the years. Quite a few sows have been the dominant ones. Especially insecure sows or older sows past the normal pup bearing age are much keener in being in control, or in total control in the case of fear-aggression. Your sow sounds like she is very insecure/fear-aggressive with other piggies because she has likely deficits in early life socialisation.

By far not all boars are dominant or over-sexed; quite a few are just happy to go along and to be accepted. Sub-adult boars may take over the reigns later on once they reach the prime of their lives but they generally do so gently and diplomatically. As long as one party is OK with allowing the other to dominate them (not gender dependent), you are OK. However, if the level of tension continues to be very high and contentiousl behaviours do not abate, the bonding will fail as fronts will harden.

Clashes happen especially when one of the parties cannot back up their claims but refuses to submit to a new leader; in this case the bonding can fail several days into the post-intro dominance phase, during which a bond is consolidated. The bonding process is only over about 2 weeks after the introduction but it can fail at any stage. It is all down to mutual liking and character compatibility.

Both links include a chapter on fear-aggression:
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour

More about the formative ages (especially the crucial period between weaning and teenage) and single guinea pigs and their issues, which can cause real problems with bonding them later on:
Journey through a Lifetime: The Ages of Guinea Pigs
Single Guinea Pigs - Challenges and Responsibilities

The part about the disabled guinea pigs on single guinea pigs is interesting, she has a mild head tilt because of the various ear/eye infections she was found with in the bag. There was another guinea pig found on the same property in a box as well, so I did wonder if she lived with another previously or not.

I'll thoroughly read through all of those links and continue watching very closely. I'd love if she could bond with the others after all her trauma, but there's just no way of knowing right now.

Thank you for the relevant info x

 

[Bekialice]

How sad she was put in a bag for life!

I know, poor baby x

 

[Bekialice]

The bonding failed she's living as a single piggie attached onto the side of their C&C now x

 

[HeatherW]

I know, poor baby x

I saw Fudge on the RSPCA page! I'm glad to see she's gone to a Forum member! She's a cutie!

 

[Bekialice]

I saw Fudge on the RSPCA page! I'm glad to see she's gone to a Forum member! She's a cutie!

She's gorgeous, she just doesn't know how to be a piggy in a group, bless her heart. I think she's a little lacking in the social skills department but she loves humans. I'm currently in talks with the RSPCA on the best course of action for her, she's well looked after now x

 

[VickiA]

I’m sorry it hasn’t worked out. Silly piggies, if only they appreciated that we just want the best for them and played ball, life would be so much easier.

 

[Wiebke]

She's gorgeous, she just doesn't know how to be a piggy in a group, bless her heart. I think she's a little lacking in the social skills department but she loves humans. I'm currently in talks with the RSPCA on the best course of action for her, she's well looked after now x

Having adopted a number of stuck in rescue piggies with social issues, I feel for you.

The quest of matching all of them up has been quite often a very stony one. My own dumped ex-single adoptee Beryn (who is - literally - scared stiff by babies, by the way) has decided to be back to being afraid of other piggies again after squishy Betsan sadly died shortly before the pandemic took off and will live out her life with having next door company she likes - at least at a safe distance; she is now 5 years old. It took me 1 1/2 years to find a companion she actually liked. But before she was dumped on the grounds of a cricket club in Wales, she must have been somebody's much loved and very people orientated single piggy. I suspect a domestic abuse case or a personal tragedy with lots of heart-break at the bottom of it.
She now lives next to similarly aged ex-single Dylan (one of failed suitor of hers), who has his own issues and his runty little wife Begw (a mis-sexed rescue surrender who is now 2 years old) who adored her smitten daddy boar after he was unable to cope with submissive baby boy Llelo once Llelo grew into a quietly confident teenager and refused to submit abjectly the more Dylan kept insisting on it.

People have the need to watch soaps... Well, I my have piggies!

If you have access to a dating rescue, then that may be an option.
Rescue Locator

 

[Bekialice]

Having adopted a number of stuck in rescue piggies with social issues, I feel for you.

The quest of matching all of them up has been quite often a very stony one. My own dumped ex-single adoptee Beryn (who is - literally - scared stiff by babies, by the way) has decided to be back to being afraid of other piggies again after squishy Betsan sadly died shortly before the pandemic took off and will live out her life with having next door company she likes - at least at a safe distance; she is now 5 years old. It took me 1 1/2 years to find a companion she actually liked. But before she was dumped on the grounds of a cricket club in Wales, she must have been somebody's much loved and very people orientated single piggy. I suspect a domestic abuse case or a personal tragedy with lots of heart-break at the bottom of it.
She now lives next to similarly aged ex-single Dylan (one of failed suitor of hers), who has his own issues and his runty little wife Begw (a mis-sexed rescue surrender who is now 2 years old) who adored her smitten daddy boar after he was unable to cope with submissive baby boy Llelo once Llelo grew into a quietly confident teenager and refused to submit abjectly the more Dylan kept insisting on it.

People have the need to watch soaps... Well, I my have piggies!

If you have access to a dating rescue, then that may be an option.
Rescue Locator

Haha we call it piggy politics, so much drama for such small creatures

All of your pigs are so lucky to have found you ❤

I'm talking to the RSPCA currently about getting her bonded with the male piggy that came in with her when they were rescued, think he was found in a box. He's been neutered so he's in the waiting period now. I'd have to give her up for re-adoption though I really don't want to but she's too interested in the other pigs through the bars, I don't think she'd be truly happy as a single and I don't really have the long term floor space for 2 lots of 2X5/6 C&Cs, why couldn't she just not bite Trixie x

 

[Bekialice]

Scratch that everyone.

I'm getting a double stacked cage for them so we can keep her. We're adopting the boy she was found with as well fingers crossed they get on!

 

[Siikibam]

I’m sorry the initial bonding didn’t work out. Hopefully it’ll work out with the boar she was found with. I was about to suggest a stacked cage so I’m glad you’ve come to the conclusion yourself

 

[Merab]

Lovely news and lucky piggies

 

[Bekialice]

I’m sorry the initial bonding didn’t work out. Hopefully it’ll work out with the boar she was found with. I was about to suggest a stacked cage so I’m glad you’ve come to the conclusion yourself

I didn't even think of it until it came to putting her up for readoption and then I was like.. AHA STACKED CAGES EXIST, WHY DID I NOT THINK OF THAT. I've never had one but I've got one ordered and her hopeful friend Milo will be on the way to us in the next few weeks when he's had the all clear from the vets. I'm a tad worried about how stable they are but people have them with no issue so I'm probably just overthinking it.

My fiance took a fair bit of convincing but it's my birthday weekend so he had to agree

I'll keep the thread updated when Milo comes to us, I've got so much hope invested into them recognising each other and bonding.

Also update on Fudge, aka miss snoozy pants today

 

[HeatherW]

I didn't even think of it until it came to putting her up for readoption and then I was like.. AHA STACKED CAGES EXIST, WHY DID I NOT THINK OF THAT. I've never had one but I've got one ordered and her hopeful friend Milo will be on the way to us in the next few weeks when he's had the all clear from the vets. I'm a tad worried about how stable they are but people have them with no issue so I'm probably just overthinking it.

My fiance took a fair bit of convincing but it's my birthday weekend so he had to agree

I'll keep the thread updated when Milo comes to us, I've got so much hope invested into them recognising each other and bonding.

Also update on Fudge, aka miss snoozy pants today

What a cutie! I'm glad to hear she's staying with you! I had a stacked C&C cage and it was perfectly fine with the struts underneath.

 

[Black piggies]

What a gorgeous sleeping princess. Look forward to seeing photos of stacked cage if you'd be happy to share.

 

[Bekialice]

What a cutie! I'm glad to hear she's staying with you! I had a stacked C&C cage and it was perfectly fine with the struts underneath.

I'll definitely be getting my fiance to put it together, it'll look like the homer simpson BBQ episode if I try

 

[Bekialice]

What a gorgeous sleeping princess. Look forward to seeing photos of stacked cage if you'd be happy to share.

Of course I will! Just need to decide who's getting top bunk

 

[Siikibam]

I also had a stacked c&c. I put two lengths of wood through the grids and underneath the top floor for stability. And I used the connectors and cable ties. You can imagine how long that took to disassemble!

 

[Bekialice]

I also had a stacked c&c. I put two lengths of wood through the grids and underneath the top floor for stability. And I used the connectors and cable ties. You can imagine how long that took to disassemble!

Oh god I'd throw it all out and start again if it needed to come down

 

[Bekialice]

2 tier has been built, entirely by me with no drama! Milo has been picked up from the RSPCA and he's very interested in Fudge on the bottom. Fingers crossed for a successful bond in the future ❤

 

[Siikibam]

Are the sows upstairs and the boars downstairs? If so, it really should be the other way round. Their smell can travel down to the boys, something you want to avoid.

for the bonding! When are you going to do it?

 

[Bekialice]

Are the sows upstairs and the boars downstairs? If so, it really should be the other way round. Their smell can travel down to the boys, something you want to avoid.

for the bonding! When are you going to do it?

We've got a previously bonded sow and boar upstairs (Bam and Trixie) and a new sow and boar downstairs (Fudge and Milo) that are separated for the moment (all boars are neutered RSPCA rescues) We originally tried to bond the new sow (fudge) to the original pair but it failed with Fudge giving Trixie a busted eye after 4 days together, so we adopted the boar that our most recent sow was found on the same property as. I truly appreciate the advice though!

I'll probably leave them (fudge and milo) next to each other for a couple of weeks and try for a bond then !