Cage requirements for two brothers

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amhaigler

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After losing my 4 year old female that was loved so dearly, and getting much advice here, I am home now with 2 precious 5 week old brothers. They are eating and doing well, and I'm so glad I took the advice not to get a single, since they seem to really love each other. They are tiny now, but what do I need to do for them for housing as they grow bigger? I have a very large cage that my girl lived in- large enough to run zoomy circles, and an outdoor hutch to go in here and there when it isn't too hot. I've never had two though. I can't do a C and C setup or anything like that. We have two Havanese dogs.
 
I’m so glad you’ve got a pair!

What are the actual measurements of your current cage?
Two boars recommended cage size is 180x60cm (70 inches by 24 inches) and a hutch of the same measurements. (The minimum for two boars is 150x60cm but that can be too small - it certainly was for my two boys when they were teenagers). Anything less and they could have space related issues. As a commercial cage is rarely big enough for boars, joining two cages together is probably the best option - they are more territorial and need a lot more room than sows do.
They really need the right size cage from the beginning as changing cage size later constitutes a change in territory and can set off dominance later (particularly if that coincides with the teens when they will become hormonal). You also don’t want to leave getting them in the right cage too long because leave it too late and if issues start t occur a new larger cage may not be enough.
Double check your cage measurements. If you do need to get them a bigger cage then do so now - they may be small but their space requirements are still larger - then its best to use the soiled bedding from their current cage and move it into a new cage so that the new cage still smells of them. This can help less territorial issues during an environment change.

You also need to make sure you have two of every item in the cage (two bottles, two hay piles, at least two hides). It’s very important to ensure that all hides have two doors in them. Single exit hides can cause issues and has the potential for defensive injuries if a piggy corners the other inside - basically you want to ensure there are no dead ends for a piggy to become trapped by the other and that there is always a route out
It can be advisable with boars, particularly once they turn teenagers, to scatter feed their veg and pellets - not only does this provide enrichment and encourage natural foraging, but it also means the dominant cannot food hog.
They may want to be sharing everything and cuddling up together now and that is very normal when they are young and scared but often that changes when they become teenagers and they don’t want to be sharing items wheh they become more confident - my boys are 4 years old now and the only time I ever find them in the same hide is if something startles them and even then it is only be accident in that they happen to run into the same one

The guides below will help you with information on the specifics and requirements of boars.

Ensure you do a hands on check to make sure they are definitely both male

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/illustrated-sexing-guide-for-all-ages.156297/
 
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Congratulations on your new arrivals. With boars’ space the rule of thumb is the bigger the better. @Piggies&buns has given you the recommended cage size to give them enough room. And it’s best to give it to them as young as possible as any change in cage/hutch etc at a later date has the potential to cause a fall out l they have to go though re establishing their dominance in a change of environment. The fewer changes you can make the fewer the chances for a fall out.
 
VickiA said:
Congratulations on your new arrivals. With boars’ space the rule of thumb is the bigger the better. @Piggies&buns has given you the recommended cage size to give them enough room. And it’s best to give it to them as young as possible as any change in cage/hutch etc at a later date has the potential to cause a fall out l they have to go though re establishing their dominance in a change of environment. The fewer changes you can make the fewer the chances for a fall out.
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I hear that fall out :(
 
I am at a loss. I kept a female for 4 years and she was happy and my baby. Everyone on here said that was wrong and you should never have a single. I listened and now every post is about keeping separate water bottles, hideys, bowls etc so they won't fight. I was told not to get a single so I didn't and now everything I read seems like how to keep them from killing each other!
 
Keeping a piggy single isn’t in their best interest - that is a fact, and you have done the right thing by getting a pair this time.
But when you do keep a pair, there are things which need to be done to ensure they have everything they need.

You have only had a single sow previously so the care for a single sow vs a pair of either sex, but particularly teen boars, is going to be different.
You have brought home a pair of young boars this time who are going to go into and through their teens shortly (starting around 4 months of age and going through until 14 months). You are going to see a lot of mounting, chasing, rumbling while they establish their hierarchy, hormone spikes (which can be pronounced if you’ve got a boar of the same age given they will both be going through them at the same time) and ensuring they get through that is obviously going to be important.
More boar pairs make it together than not but we are giving you the information you need to try minimise the risk of them running into issues particularly when they are hormonal. We would have been telling you the same things about space and multiple items had you got a pair of sows - it’s just that with boars it’s even more important.
With any pair of piggies, character compatibility is the most vital component of whether their bond will be successful. If they aren’t compatible, then it’s going to fail no matter what you do. However, even if they are compatible but you don’t give them enough space or enough resources, then you risk turning what could have been a successful relationship into bickering, a fall out and separated piggies and that is what our advice is aiming to prevent.
 
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amhaigler said:
I am at a loss. I kept a female for 4 years and she was happy and my baby. Everyone on here said that was wrong and you should never have a single. I listened and now every post is about keeping separate water bottles, hideys, bowls etc so they won't fight. I was told not to get a single so I didn't and now everything I read seems like how to keep them from killing each other!
Click to expand...
There are 19 sticky threads found here New and Wannabe Guinea Pig Owners Corner. None of the advice has suddenly changed, for anyone looking to do their research before they make the leap then it is all clearly available here. If you haven’t done the research before then it may come as a bit of a shock trying to play catch up.

If you think about most wild animals social structure Guinea pigs don’t vary wildly from lots of them. In nature there is often conflict with males, they want to spread their genes as widely as they can and don’t want their sperm in competition with others sperm so they will fight off other males. Females are not in the same genetic competition so can live together better. Think about lions in a pride. You don’t get multiple adult lions. Guinea pigs are tiny vegan lions. You can manipulate their behaviour by putting two males together but they need space and nothing to argue over.

All anyone is trying to do is help you. I believe you are a teacher. It must be frustrating when your students don’t want to hear what you know to be right and resisting advice but now the tables have turned…
 
amhaigler said:
I am at a loss. I kept a female for 4 years and she was happy and my baby. Everyone on here said that was wrong and you should never have a single. I listened and now every post is about keeping separate water bottles, hideys, bowls etc so they won't fight. I was told not to get a single so I didn't and now everything I read seems like how to keep them from killing each other!
Click to expand...
The advice we are giving is not to stop them killing each other.
The advice we are offering is to help guide you towards making sure they live the absolute best life possible with the appropriate space, resources and enrichment.

I could easily keep a single piggy on a poor diet in a small glass tank and assume they were happy. They eat, drink and are doing fine.
I then join this Forum and are told what my piggy really needs, by a large group of experienced piggy keepers who have many years of experience and quite often scientific backgrounds to back it up.
It would be easy to feel overwhelmed - my piggy is fine - but this is also a chance for me to learn more and do better, which at the end of the day is only going to benefit my piggies.
 
As for the separate hides, water bottle etc. this is just plain common sense to me.
I have 2 teenagers.
If I had one chair in the living room, quite often they would actually choose to sit on this together - they are very close.
But sometimes this would cause major fights, because sometimes they would not want to share, and they would bicker about who got the chair, and why one had to sit on the floor.

If at dinner time I put out one plate of food and one drink I can only imagine how badly this would go 90% of the time. :yikes:
Everyone (piggies and people) deserve access to their own essential resources - it's not just boars, I did the same when I had a cage of 3 females and it is just common sense really.
 
I'm sorry I got irritated on responses. I'm listening fully now. I didn't want to hear I was doing something wrong. I give now. I'm sorry. Of these two boys, one seems to be dominating for sure. 1 baby has grown a lot and the other hasn't. I'm worried.
 
Ok- I'm sorry to all of you that gave me great advice and I didn't want to hear it. I just had this single female piggy for years and she was so happy, healthy, and cuddly. I got these two boy babies. Many of you gave me advice that I didn't want to listen to. I am now looking into a 2 story cage with separate everything like you all suggested. I do have a question. One baby has grown a lot bigger in 1 week. The other hasn't grown. Do you think one could be dominating and not letting him eat? They are only 6 weeks old. I'm sorry I was so combative before. Any advice would be so appreciated. So much.
 
That’s ok. We are all here to help you!

You really need a single level cage, not two storey, which is big enough and then with two of every item (including hides which have two exits) inside it. Piggies are ground roaming creatures, not natural climbers and prefer to live on a single level.
For two boars the cage needs to be 180x60cm/70 inches by 24 inches of flat surface. They need 12 square feet.
(150x60cm being the absolute minimum for two boys but that may not be big enough and you are better off to go to 180cm for them).

A two storey cage also does not mean double the floor space - for example you can’t get a 120x60cm two storey cage which covers 8 sq ft on the bottom level and think that it’s 16 sq ft because it’s two levels. It’s still only 8 sq ft so not big enough, as only the bottom level counts and the upper level is just a bonus space which the piggies may or may not use.
Even if you did get a two storey cage, the bottom level would still need to measure 180x60cm.
I think you will struggle to find even a single level commercial cage measuring that size, I’ve never seen a two storey in the right size. We certainly don’t have any single level commercial cages of that the right size for boars here (the biggest we can get is 160cm so is only just slightly over minimum and may be fine for some, but too small for others) and definitely no two storey cages.

When it comes to ramps, some piggies will use them, some won’t. They aren’t natural climbers and would rather live on a single level and not have to climb ramps. Ramps in two storey cages they tend to be quite steep and don’t have sides which can put piggies off using them.
Ramps also have the potential to be an issue for some teen boars. It’s obviously only one way up and down and if the dominant piggy was to claim it as his space, then the other piggy may not be allowed to use the ramp anyway.

The best option for two boys is a c&c cage and it would need to be 5 grids by 2 grids. These can have lids fitted to them by using additional grids overlapped and zip tied together for rigidity, so they can be safe from your dogs.
The alternative is to join two commercial cages together side by side so they can have enough space on a single level and have a lid so safe from your dogs.

Cage Size Guide

Piggies come in different shapes and sizes and they won’t all gain weight evenly. The only way to know they are both eating enough hay is with the weekly weight checks. Ensure you weigh them both every week as routine and keep a note so you can compare.
If you become concerned or notice one is losing weight beyond normal fluctuation (either rapidly or is on a slower but downward trend) then you switch to daily weight checks and take the further actions as necessary - syringe feed, see a vet first to rule out medical issues. Only looking to behavioural issues such as bullying after medical is ruled out.

At thus point it doesn’t necessarily need to be bullying, he may simply not be as confident and just need to settle in a bit more, there are things you can do -

Do you have two separate hay piles in the cage at present?
Dont use hay racks or holders, just put the hay loose in the cage in piles.
Ensure hay is also put in all the hides so a more nervous piggy doesn’t need to come out to eat if he doesn’t yet feel confident.
Covering part of the cage with a blanket or sheet can also help provide cover and make them feel more safe.

Weight - Monitoring and Management
How To Pick Up And Weigh Your Guinea Pigs Safely (videos)
 
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