Burt And His Bottom

[dearbarbie]

Ah little Burt - a while ago he had a URI which cleared up but the meds gave him gut stasis so we treated that, he's fine and back to his usual weight.

A few months later we note that he is squeaking when he poops - not every time, but usually when he does a pile of 5+, poor little dude, it's horrible to see/hear.
Vet (Seers Croft - amazing recommendation from @Pebble) checked him over, did a urine sample (came back with tiny crystals but nothing in a range to worry about apparently), vet prodded him about a bit and noticed discomfort, and put him on Lactulose. He loved the stuff but didn't help him - vet said this could be a chronic thing and we need to see what works via trial and error (I have a chronic illness so aware of all that working out, ha).

We took him back last week and they did an xray - nothing conclusive on that (apart from seeing a weird piggy body insides) so they took some of his poop for testing and send him home with some Fibreplex for a 5-day course (a great way to waste 30 mins 3 times a day trying to sneakily give this to a guinea piglet) and metacam (thankfully he loves this too).

Not any changes really - squeaking less or so we thought but have been busy this weekend, this morning we heard him squeal for 2 periods within a few mins. Waiting for call for poop results but thought I'd post here to see if anyone has any ideas. I think the vet things it's a fibre-related problem as said to take his food away for half the day at a time to encourage him to eat more hay (and yay, great excuse to throw it everywhere too haha)...

He seems fine in himself, no weight loss, usual amount of popcorning and walking all over me. He has this past month started tugging at my clothes a lot (not always related to needing the loo) but doesn't get stressed - think this is his growing up more than being in any discomfort as he's always very happy to be around me...little stalker

 

[Flutterby]

Poor little man! Sending healing vibes!

 

[Pebble]

Had a similar problem with Carson when pooing - finally solved with a bladder flush (he had sludge) and removed all leafy green veggies from his diet. If I relent and let him eat some e.g. lettuce, kale or spinach - he starts squeaking again within 24hours. He is allowed baby corn, carrot, celery, pepper apple cucumber and some sprigs of parsley and basil as a treat. He also gets fresh grass and dandelions during warmer months. He can also eat dried herbal forage (eg dandelion delight etc) with no ill effects.
Can't believe how well the bladder flush worked - 3 years on and recent Xrays show he has not developed any further sludge/stones.

Re the fibreplex - I mix it with some liquidised pellets and syringe feed - its easier than trying to give it direct from the syringe it comes in.

Also see if he likes newspaper/toilet roll tubes - piggies often resort to this when there is a fibre imbalance (and mine also start tugging at clothes)

 

[dearbarbie]

Heyyy sorry for lack of update - still no solution. Fibreplex didn't help.. Fecal tests all clear, xray all clear, he's still sore when he 'goes' and over the past few days he's started being really hidey and really nibbly - used to be such an affectionate boy but it's a bit Jekyll and Hyde - now hates being held (wonder if it hurts him? He never squeaks, just pulls at my top very violently til he's put down or gets my skin - ouch!) After he's been on the floor a bit he starts following me and trying to climb up me, and ha, just stares up at me hehe. Silly. He gets loo roll insides all the time and no interest in kitchen roll!

We've tried no veg, tried taking his pellets away for 50% of the time, now the vet has put him on something called Buprecare for the past few days. For the most part they're fine, if not a little thick, and they seem to break up easily when I'm spot-cleaning his cage.

He seems to either go to the loo a lot and fill his bed area or, like today, not really produce much whilst I've been at work all day. He's a mystery - both Celine and Rob and Seers Croft are clueless only option left seems to be an ultrasound but not sure if that will help. Poor little guy!

He is currently running around the room on a blanket so I can monitor him for an hour or so, and he's chatting to himself as he's exploring enthusiastically which is nice to see - he's usually a fan of floor time but not as much recently - trying to get his body moving!

 

[dearbarbie]

Oh gross. one that's 'ribbed' like it's been pushed out or something - could it be a clue? No squeaking though! He's also not v licky usually is a real licker pig, and his poo, is it supposed to smell!?!?!?

 

[Tbag]

Oh dear, I'm sorry you're struggling to get a diagnosis for Burt. I don't really have much to add in afraid, seers croft are brilliant and it sounds like they have everything covered.

The pooing lots all at once with squealing is familiar though - Tango used to do this a lot during a period where he had recurrent UTIs and cystitis. I was convinced for a long time it was nothing to do with his waterworks as he never showed pain whilst peeing, xrays were clear etc - just like you describe. We beat the UTIs and managed the cystisis for a year or two but then the squealing returned with other symptoms and he was diagnosed with kidney failure - I think all along he must have had compromised kidney function but it just took time to really develop into sobering serious.

If you go for an ultra sound and that reveals nothing then perhaps a blood test would be the next port of call.

Good luck to you and Burt! X

 

[Lilly]

I am sorry as I know how difficult it is when you can't get a diagnosis. My Peanut Butter also had bouts of pooping half a dozen at a time with heaps of squawking. After every test possible turned out to be a prostate problem which resulted in a ruptured vas deferens (semen tube) with neutering being the only cure. As with @Tbag 's experience symptoms may be the same but the outcome may be vastly different. I was going to try a bladder flush at @Pebble 's suggestion as PB still had painful toileting even after the original problem was resolved by neutering. However a further course of anti-biotics cleared it up (blood test revealed a low-grade infection somewhere) although I still keep the bladder flush option as first port of call should he start squawking again. I would really go for the ultrasound and bloodwork as well. My PB has run the gamut of X-rays, ultrasound, blood test, urine & poop tests, prostate cells extracted by catheter and lab tested, post neuter testicles sent to the lab for testing. Without all this we would have never found the problem. And I did not find that any of this actually stressed PB. I've come to believe these little guys can be far more resilient than we think..

PS one of the ways prostate was suspected is that after all the usual tests came back negative my vet palpitated him everywhere until she hear him sqawuk in pain at the prostate..

 

[Tbag]

Yes, I should have added that just because the symptoms are similar I'm not saying Burt will have the same diagnosis! Just an interesting comparison. Two extremely different diagnosis' here with @Lilly 's PB too - they are little creatures but a lot can be going on in there!

ps. also sorry for predictive text typos in my first post. proof reading is essential but never my first thought at 7am!

 

[Pebble]

Buprecare is an opiod pain relief. We've had good results with it recently for two of my dental p[iggies.

You mention the differing outputs from day to day.......and the crumbly consistency (lack of fluid intake or poos hanging around too long in the gut so absorbing too much water) Just wondering what size/shape his poos are atm and whether they are very variable from day to day?
Have Seers Croft considered a course of zantac & cisapride - this can help regularise the gut movement. It wouldn't do any harm...I will PM you....
x

 

[dearbarbie]

Hi guys

He's still no better the buprecare didn't help him. He's still squeaky when going to do his business, and I've been seeing orangey-red wee, not every time he goes I don't think as saw some about a week and he'd had carrot so though could be that but all this week its been celery, grapes, apple and a bit of banana skin. There was no red wee last night when I checked about 3am, but it was there this morning, and cleaned him out an hour ago and there's more...here, see this pic (so glad we use white Fitch right now!):

Yesterday he was licky cute pig but today he's sat here squeaking away and seeming a bit nervous. Still eating and everything though, no weight loss. Tempted to take him to the vet tonight because of this, now I'm worried! I have no idea what else the vet can do. For his squeaky poos he goes and hides, but the normal ones he seems to do anywhere - the hidey poos are crumblier...

 

[dearbarbie]

PS they all look normal, can get a pic if you think it would help...

 

[Tbag]

Oh dear that sounds like quite a bit of bloody wee now. I'm wondering if any of the crystals in his urine have developed into more substantial stone(s) or whether there's something more deep seated that just hasnt been found yet. How is he in himself? I think unless he is really suffering it might be better to wait to see a proper piggy vet tomorrow rather than an emergency one - it's your call though and you'll know what's best for him.
Is he still on pain relief? If not then Id definitely recommend a vet visit today just to get him some if nothing else.
Poor guy, fingers crossed for him.

 

[dearbarbie]

Hey... Is that bloody wee you think then? I was just assuming as have no other explanation. We have buprecare left still but didn't seem to help. Crystals did show up on tests a few weeks ago but both Rob and Celine said they were insignificant.

 

[Pebble]

Are you sure that's blood? Some pigs (especially when poorly) develop bright orange wee - I have found this can be connected to yellow melon or banana skin or septrin
I have PM'd you some pictures for comparison.
Give one of the out-of-hours vets a ring (it will probably be Uncle Hedley as Uncle Vito was on duty last night) with a view to taking him in tomorrow and see if you can take a fresh urine sample in with you.

Edit: Also might be worth asking about a trial of low dose gut stimulants
.....and whether to explore the possibility of a prostate issue (had a recent case on the forum where an enlarged prostate was found to be the cause of squeaky poos)
x

 

[Pebble]

Bloody urine.........from a boar with chronic interstitial cystitis




Bright orange urine from a boar after eating honeydew melon (whilst on azithromycin for a dental abcess)



Often the wee comes out normal colour but turns orange on drying (due either to oxidation of porphyrins in the urine or a high beta-carotene content). Jury is still out on what exactly causes this phenomenon but it is often seen in poorly piggies

I'm betting the banana skin may have something to do with it.......and it can last for a few days

 

[dearbarbie]

I'll give the vet a call in a mo. Was a tiny thumbnail of banana skin and seems a lot of orange wee for that much?

 

[Pebble]

Carson had one cube of melon......and continued producing wees like the above for 4-5 days!.......
I think it's a combination of factors that cause it with maybe high carotene veggies/fruit (and/or Vit C) being a possible trigger ....in combination with perhaps an underlying infection with specific (but as yet unidentified) types of bugs - not necessarily in the urinary tract but elsewhere - All my pigs that developed orange urine for a few days had underlying infections - Carson had dental abcess, Tia had an ear infection, Willow developed an infection of some sort whilst on steroid treatment for leukaemia.
(Complete speculation on my part but I am wondering if this is a Corynebacterium as C kutscheri infects rats, mice and hamsters and causes "red tears" (owing to porphyrin secretion) in rats)

 

[dearbarbie]

Hey there... Glad you mentioned banana skins as found orange wee by our other boar (they live separate but next to each other) so banana skin must have been the culprit, glad I gave them a bit. Had him on the floor last night and he was running about fast and popcorning away so he must only be in pain when he poos, and it's not always when he does. Will call vet on my lunch break and reply to your pm.