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Bumblefoot

CharlieH

CharlieH

Teenage Guinea Pig
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
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Location
Herefordshire, UK
So I haven't posted in a while and it's not the happy return post I was hoping for I'm afraid :bye:

So my beloved little Crumble (the sweetest and most good natured pig you'll ever meet) has got bumblefoot badly. I had been nursing a sore right foot and then yesterday she was non weight bearing left fore and I spotted a sore on the medial aspect, I don't know how I missed it with handling her other foot to soak so frequently.

I can't believe it and I feel so guilty, she lives on fleece and puppy pads with homemade soft cushions and honestly I keep her clean but all I can think of is how it's a disease of bad living conditions :(.

She's 6 and not very active, she's had cushings for a while and I think it's impacted her immune system. The vet says immobility can cause it to worsen quite badly but honestly I think she was just trying to make me feel better. We're guessing she's initially spiked it on something sharp.

We had a very frank discussion (with me in tears) about what may or may not work. We're on a high dose of sulfatrim and metacam to see if the infection can be stopped and swelling reduced. Vet doesn't think it'll make any difference but i needed time to think and wanted to try as it's the least invasive of all the options. We also sent a swab away today.

If this doesn't start to make a difference by Monday next week we're looking at 3 options:

1. X-ray then debride (if it hasn't spread to the bone, we think it has) and leave her with open wounds to treat and hopefully heal.

2. X-ray and amputate if it'll be possible.

3. Pts

I just don't know how I'm supposed to decide what's best for her. Obviously prolonging her life is what I want more than anything, but she's 6 and I feel major surgery / open wounds will just make it miserable quantity of life over quality. Money isn't an issue for surgery, that's replacable with a new paycheque, Crumble is not :no:

All my other piggys have told me when it's time, but she's such a perky pig, first to wheek for food, such a licky thing, a good weight and so bright. She's eating well and takes her medicines like a good girl.

I just don't know what to do and I'd really appreciate some honest opinions or past experiences. Actually, I'd really like some good vibes and healing thoughts for my precious girl.

I've been so selfish recently with assignments and placements for my job that extended snuggles have turned to foot washes and smaller cuddles. That's obviously how I've missed this and I just want a miracle cure for my baby

If you're judging me, that's ok, I'm judging me too, you're ok to say so.

Xx

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Firstly welcome back, and secondly, don't beat yourself up. The fact that your gorgeous bundle of fluff lives on fleece doesn't mean you've done anything wrong and caused the bumble foot. One of mine had Bumblefoot but it was a very mild some years ago and recovered, at the time, she was also on fleece.

I wouldn't be able to give you assistance in your decision, probably best if @Wiebke @helen105281 @furryfriends (TEAS) could advise perhaps.
 
I don't know enough to offer any advice...but you've definitely got good vibes coming from me. Crumble is a beautiful little piggie and its obvious you're doing everything you can and love her a lot. I hope she gets better soon. <3
 
Hi! Please do not beat yourself up over the bumblefoot. It is not at all uncommon in older guinea pigs with limited mobility and decreased blood circulation, especially when they are not able to take their weight off their front legs for some reason. My then 7 years old Nerys developed bumblefoot in the wake of a temporary back leg paralysis. With antibiotics and gorgeous guineas medical foot cream she got over it and was 8 years old when old age really caught up with her.
During the worst of it, I did offer Nerys top-up feed, but from a spoon, so it had to be her decision and her will to live during that whole time; the moment she wasn't willing to feed herself would have been the end of the road for her, as like you, I do not like to see a piggy suffer. But piggies can surprise you!

Apart from the vet care, I would strongly recommend to switching to vetbed as the softest surface and to change it and any cosies daily or even twice daily if she is mostly sitting in one place. As you have noticed it quickly, you should be able to get past the bumblefoot, especially if the other foot is healing. Please be careful to not overtreat feed and soften their skin too much, as that can contribute piggies becoming more prone to sores and infections.

Please see a vet for the treatment.
 
Mother Hubbard said:
Firstly welcome back, and secondly, don't beat yourself up. The fact that your gorgeous bundle of fluff lives on fleece doesn't mean you've done anything wrong and caused the bumble foot. One of mine had Bumblefoot but it was a very mild some years ago and recovered, at the time, she was also on fleece.

I wouldn't be able to give you assistance in your decision, probably best if @Wiebke @helen105281 @furryfriends (TEAS) could advise perhaps.
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StarSapphire22 said:
I don't know enough to offer any advice...but you've definitely got good vibes coming from me. Crumble is a beautiful little piggie and its obvious you're doing everything you can and love her a lot. I hope she gets better soon. <3
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Thank you both, I really appreciate you taking the time to reply and make me feel a bit better :hug:xx

Wiebke said:
Hi! Please do not beat yourself up over the bumblefoot. It is not at all uncommon in older guinea pigs with limited mobility and decreased blood circulation, especially when they are not able to take their weight off their front legs for some reason. My then 7 years old Nerys developed bumblefoot in the wake of a temporary back leg paralysis. With antibiotics and gorgeous guineas medical foot cream she got over it and was 8 years old when old age really caught up with her.
During the worst of it, I did offer Nerys top-up feed, but from a spoon, so it had to be her decision and her will to live during that whole time; the moment she wasn't willing to feed herself would have been the end of the road for her, as like you, I do not like to see a piggy suffer. But piggies can surprise you!

Apart from the vet care, I would strongly recommend to switching to vetbed as the softest surface and to change it and any cosies daily or even twice daily if she is mostly sitting in one place. As you have noticed it quickly, you should be able to get past the bumblefoot, especially if the other foot is healing. Please be careful to not overtreat feed and soften their skin too much, as that can contribute piggies becoming more prone to sores and infections.

Please see a vet for the treatment.
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Hi Wiebke,

Thanks for your message, there's definitely hope for Crumble and I think your spoon feeding idea is a really good one. At the moment she practically rips veg and readigrass from my hands so theres definitely will there and shes still so affectionate. I'm praying that antibiotics wont ruin her appetite or affect her guts because that'll just complicate the whole situation even more (I asked for fibreplex too so hoping that'll keep any gastro issues at bay).

Do you think there's anything food wise that would increase her ability to fight the infection? She already gets lots of vitamin C but just thinking about whether there's anything else that will increase her chances.

I'll go to the pet shop in town tomorrow and get a few cages worth of vet bed to go in the cage, her cagemate Mouse will think all her Christmases have come at once :nod:.

Thanks again for your message :)
 
So just an update for this morning.. Crumble once again took all her medications like a good girl. I made her a celebratory parsley garland and she got some melon skin as a reward before her breakfast :roll:.

Went and got 2 lengths of vet bed this morning which I've put under her fleece cage liner and she's snuggled down now.

Still eating really well and very perky, so keeping my fingers crossed :nod:

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When my Arnold had bumblefoot he was on antibiotics for any infection and Metacam for the pain. We also bathed his feet in a Hibiscrub bath. You can get it from a supermarket or the vet. You'll need to Google how much water to mix it with as there are a couple of different concentrations. I occasionally used Epsom Salts too. You have to limit those though as they're very drier and not good for the skin long term.

Arnold's bumblefoot was caused by a combination of poor circulation, a stroke and arthritis. He was kept on Vetbed and cleaned daily and I felt like the worst owner when it happened. But, my vet did say that the combination of his issues meant it was virtually impossible to prevent from happening. But I still felt rotten for him.
 
Awww, for your guinea to live this long you've done nothing wrong so don't feel guilty. Crumble's eyes look very happy you can tell a lot from their eyes. You will know when it is time for your guinea and I don't think it's now. They love metacam my Ruby used to to be ready for the sryinge for hers.
 
CharlieH said:
So just an update for this morning.. Crumble once again took all her medications like a good girl. I made her a celebratory parsley garland and she got some melon skin as a reward before her breakfast :roll:.

Went and got 2 lengths of vet bed this morning which I've put under her fleece cage liner and she's snuggled down now.

Still eating really well and very perky, so keeping my fingers crossed :nod:

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Loving the parsley garland!:love: Unfortunately it wouldn't last very long with my 5 as a bit of parsley can be sniffed out at 3 paces and is eagerly scoffed!
 
Jaycey said:
When my Arnold had bumblefoot he was on antibiotics for any infection and Metacam for the pain. We also bathed his feet in a Hibiscrub bath. You can get it from a supermarket or the vet. You'll need to Google how much water to mix it with as there are a couple of different concentrations. I occasionally used Epsom Salts too. You have to limit those though as they're very drier and not good for the skin long term.

Arnold's bumblefoot was caused by a combination of poor circulation, a stroke and arthritis. He was kept on Vetbed and cleaned daily and I felt like the worst owner when it happened. But, my vet did say that the combination of his issues meant it was virtually impossible to prevent from happening. But I still felt rotten for him.
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Thank you for your reply, we have hibiscrub to use from before but we never got given a dilution so I'll have to ask about that at the vet, it's been quite hap hazard!

Bless little Arnold, it's just a horribleness feeling knowing they're suffering :(

Sian said:
Awww, for your guinea to live this long you've done nothing wrong so don't feel guilty. Crumble's eyes look very happy you can tell a lot from their eyes. You will know when it is time for your guinea and I don't think it's now. They love metacam my Ruby used to to be ready for the sryinge for hers.
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Thank you for your kind words :). I agree though, I've always known when it's time and I just don't feel that it is yet for her. Metacam is a blessing, Crumble is always ready for hers too :D

Betsy said:
Loving the parsley garland!:love: Unfortunately it wouldn't last very long with my 5 as a bit of parsley can be sniffed out at 3 paces and is eagerly scoffed!
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Haha! I had spinach snatched from me earlier as I was walking past, the parsley garland didn't last too long either :p
 
Sian said:
How is Crumble doing?
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She's doing well thank you! I can't see any improvement to look at on the bumblefoot so far if I'm honest but I understand it's a slow process.

She's able to put the foot to the floor when standing but doesn't use it when walking still so I guess that's either progress or better pain management.

I'm looking into a bacteriacidal blue light laser to try and go for a multimodal blitz on this but I'm looking at the evidence before jumping on one.

Monday is our decision day really so I'm still no further forward for what to do x
 
So just to fill you all in, we have seen an improvement over the week with some intermittent weight bearing and a great improvement in perkiness.

We had light sedated X-rays today (Crumble is still at the vets now) which showed bony involvement in infection. Amputation isn't an option as her other leg has gotten worse over the week (I assume from increased load etc). I've tried a new vets and they have honestly been superb (vet himself says he has 11 piggies!).

So the plan is as follows:
Pain relief:
- Metacam
- Tramadol

Antibiotics:
- Sulfatrim
- Baytril (I know has been bad for some piggies but needed for this type of infection)

Others:
- Fibreplex to keep (hopefully) guts going ok.

Going to have a further look into the blue light laser (every little helps hey)

The vet is going to ring and speak to a specialist about the possible use of Clindamycin or a similar alternative. He wants this to be injected not orally as apparently it will wipe out all gut bacteria easily and that would be fatal but really is needed for helping to improve the bone infection, but currently only an oral version exists so he's going to ring for advice.

So it's a mixed bag really, no cure as such but for the first time ever I feel really supported by a fantastic vet who clearly had a lot of time for my little Crumble.

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I have only just seen this. Please don't beat yourself up. This is not your fault, you are such a caring responsible owner. Your little lady is in the best of hands with you.

Sending lots of healing vibes to Crumble X x
 
@sport_billy It was Septrin. I wonder if Zithromax would be a good antibiotic to use in severe cases as bumblefoot can get as troublesome as an abscess to sort out.
 
sport_billy said:
I have only just seen this. Please don't beat yourself up. This is not your fault, you are such a caring responsible owner. Your little lady is in the best of hands with you.

Sending lots of healing vibes to Crumble X x
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Hi Lee :). How are you?

Thanks for your kind message and healing vibes for Crumble, she's very bright right now so that's good :luv: X

Jaycey said:
@sport_billy It was Septrin. I wonder if Zithromax would be a good antibiotic to use in severe cases as bumblefoot can get as troublesome as an abscess to sort out.
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furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I've used Zithromax for a severe case of bumblefoot, with excellent results.
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Thanks for this, I'll discuss it with the vet when he phones later / tomorrow :nod:.

I've been quite cautious of administering tramadol, metacam, sulfatrim and baytril all at once in case of upsetting her stomach. I'm going with slowly adding each one by one (already on metacam and sulfatrim, added tramadol last night and baytril this morning) to see if there's any upset stomach effects so I know which causes it if there is!
 
I only ever used Metacam, and to be honest my pig did fine on it. He didn't use his foot, but he never really minded when I was bathing it.
 
Toffee321 said:
Good Luck Crumble
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Thank you :hug:

furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Why has tramadol been prescribed? What dose metacam have you been giving? x
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The vet thinks it will manage her pain better than metacam alone. One of the metacarpal bones is almost completely moth eaten on X-ray and he says it'll be a cause of chronic pain :(.

Her current metacam dose is 0.26ml x 1 daily (she's a smidge over 800g currently) and she's having 1 tramadol HCL 5mg twice daily too. She's very perky on the new meds! X
 
CharlieH said:
Thank you :hug:



The vet thinks it will manage her pain better than metacam alone. One of the metacarpal bones is almost completely moth eaten on X-ray and he says it'll be a cause of chronic pain :(.

Her current metacam dose is 0.26ml x 1 daily (she's a smidge over 800g currently) and she's having 1 tramadol HCL 5mg twice daily too. She's very perky on the new meds! X
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You can give Metacam twice daily. Is the plan to keep her on tramadol long term? xx
 
Just to update you all, Crumble is still doing well, her front feet have gone down quite considerably, she's weightbearing well on both and has perked up no end.

We have stopped the antibiotics for now in favour of monitoring the appearance of the feet for increased swelling again.

She takes her tramadol like a good girl wrapped in a runner bean leaf :wub: (the bean, not crumble :doh: - though she wouldn't complain...).

She's also fluffing out again over her back (many periods of baldness over her time - ovarian cysts). She's such a cutie pie.

furryfriends (TEAS) said:
You can give Metacam twice daily. Is the plan to keep her on tramadol long term? xx
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Sorry I didn't see this :no:. Yes I think the tramadol will be a permenant fixture, it's on her repeat prescription now. She seems tone doing quite well on it - any cautions for long term use that you know of? :)

IMG_3065.webp
 
If she were my pig l would look to an alterative to Tramadol! It is a powerful narcotic
Sorry to sound dramatic but l used to take the drug for neck pain, but the side effects were frightening
I wouldn't take take that drug if it was the only thing there was! It was like being drunk without the high, but I was lucky enough to be able to recognise what the problem was and stop taking them
So god help a poor piggy that is unable to say "please no more "

Tramadol - Top 8 Things You Need to Know



Tramadol Side Effects in Detail - Drugs.com
 
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