Hi, we took on 3 unwanted boys, dad is about 14 months and both boys 5 months (all neutered) however 1 of the boys keeps chasing and humping the dad, on occasion there has been a small amount of blood. How do we best manage this, we have 7 settled girls but I worry if we put the dad there, they might not accept him and he cannot go back with the boys. If we removed the bully then he would be on his own which I know they hate. When we took them, they were all very skittish and they were living in cramped conditions with a lot of pregnant females, they settled with us, live in a hutch but have an outside area they can use in all weathers, they did settle but this has been getting steadily worse over the last 3 weeks or so and I dad seems very down. Advice would be much appreciated. Thank you
Bullying
- Thread starter Sarah L R
- Start date
Welcome to the forum
I'm sorry that I am not going to be able to bring you good news. You are likely going to need to separate them. You need to pick the two which get on best together, keep them as a pair and then have one single - it could be that dad and the other son get on best and the one who is doing the humping needs to be separated out.
Three boars together usually doesnt work - they find it very hard to form a functioning hierarchy and the bond usually fails with the kinds of relentless behaviours you are seeing. Most trios wont survive the teens with their bond in tact sadly,
To that end, I would try to bond the single piggy with some of the girls because even if it does fail with the girls, he is not going to ever be able to live back with the other two boys anyway.
If for any reason he isnt accepted by the girls, then he would need to live in a separate cage but beside others for companionship between the bars.
Bonds In Trouble
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
I'm sorry that I am not going to be able to bring you good news. You are likely going to need to separate them. You need to pick the two which get on best together, keep them as a pair and then have one single - it could be that dad and the other son get on best and the one who is doing the humping needs to be separated out.
Three boars together usually doesnt work - they find it very hard to form a functioning hierarchy and the bond usually fails with the kinds of relentless behaviours you are seeing. Most trios wont survive the teens with their bond in tact sadly,
To that end, I would try to bond the single piggy with some of the girls because even if it does fail with the girls, he is not going to ever be able to live back with the other two boys anyway.
If for any reason he isnt accepted by the girls, then he would need to live in a separate cage but beside others for companionship between the bars.
Bonds In Trouble
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
As a proviso - assuming the boy who gets separated is six weeks post neuter safe before being introduced to any of your girls.
Hi,
And thank you, I have done some research so I did think you may say that. The 'cheeky' one, Taffy - bullies dad but seems ok with his brother - when he sees the girls he is pretty full on and chases them round so I think he would upset their dynamics.
Dad is the quiet one, if I tried him with the girls, it may work but if it didn't what are the chances of reintroducing him to the calmer son again? And, would Taffy transfer his behaviour to his brother if we tried to keep them together? I just worry that he could be an only GP for a very long time?
Keeping boar pairs (or a trio in your case) around sows will make them worse particularly teenagers pumped up on hormones. Although I note you say they are kept with pregnant females in their previous home - weee they actually in the same cage? frankly that’s a recipe for disaster trying to keep more than one boar with any sows. It may be that if they were in the same cage with girls in their previous home that it’s part of reason for his behaviour being back in with just boys now (might not be, as I say, boar trios fail without ever having come into contact with sows).
If it failed with your girls, you would simply have to try him back with the son and see what happened.
He can live his whole life as a single but only if kept side by side with others. Of course it’s better to be with a friend but sometimes it just doesn’t work out.
I have three single boars myself all living side by side and unable to bond two of them back into a pair.
I have a 6 year old who was in a pair with another 6 year old (they were together their whole lives, not related) but he passed away at the end of March.
My other two boys came home with me as a 9 week old pair. Just 9 weeks later their bond failed with a huge fight and they had to be separated and have lived separated for 18 or so months now. So when my 6 year old lost his cage mate, all three have to be separate but side by side. I did consider trying to bond him with one of my younger boys but they are all dominant. When my older boy passes away, I am highly unlikely to be in a position to get more piggies so Hugo and Wilbur will be spending their lives as neighbours.
Will Taffy transfer his behaviour onto his brother - you are going to see the behaviour but it doesn’t mean it’ll necessary tip over and be bullying but it’s not somethinf you can 100% rule out. You would think he would bully them
both now If he doesn’t like them both but it’s not a guarantee. It all comes down to whether the two brothers are compatible as a pair and come to a functioning hierarchy (one dominant and one submissive). Removing one of the boys will cause the other two to go into a two week period of reestablishing their bond as a pair during which time you are going to see all normal dominance behaviours ( so chasing, mounting, rumbling). Actually these behaviours continue throughout life As they constantly reaffirm their bond.
Bullying is a sustained set of behaviours where one piggy just won’t let up and the others either become withdrawn (potentially start to lose weight) or they get fed up of it and fight back. Either outcome is bond breaking though.
I would not totally rule out taffy being the one you try with the girls. He is currently not thinking with his brain when it comes to seeing the girls - they are may put him in his place and he calms down and becomes a gentleman.
It may not be an option though - only you can decide!
I say this though because keeping two teen boars of the exact same age together has its risks also - they are hitting hormone spikes the same time and while most come through it together, not all do (highest hormone output at 6 months of age, with another hormone spike around 9 months of age). Dad and one son obviously won’t be hitting spikes at the same time.
Do keep in mind that if dad goes in with the girls and the two sons don’t make it as a pair, what would your plan be? You will still potentially have two single boars left. You can obviously only keep one boar in with the girls unless you split your girls and have each boar have his own set of ladies.
If it failed with your girls, you would simply have to try him back with the son and see what happened.
He can live his whole life as a single but only if kept side by side with others. Of course it’s better to be with a friend but sometimes it just doesn’t work out.
I have three single boars myself all living side by side and unable to bond two of them back into a pair.
I have a 6 year old who was in a pair with another 6 year old (they were together their whole lives, not related) but he passed away at the end of March.
My other two boys came home with me as a 9 week old pair. Just 9 weeks later their bond failed with a huge fight and they had to be separated and have lived separated for 18 or so months now. So when my 6 year old lost his cage mate, all three have to be separate but side by side. I did consider trying to bond him with one of my younger boys but they are all dominant. When my older boy passes away, I am highly unlikely to be in a position to get more piggies so Hugo and Wilbur will be spending their lives as neighbours.
Will Taffy transfer his behaviour onto his brother - you are going to see the behaviour but it doesn’t mean it’ll necessary tip over and be bullying but it’s not somethinf you can 100% rule out. You would think he would bully them
both now If he doesn’t like them both but it’s not a guarantee. It all comes down to whether the two brothers are compatible as a pair and come to a functioning hierarchy (one dominant and one submissive). Removing one of the boys will cause the other two to go into a two week period of reestablishing their bond as a pair during which time you are going to see all normal dominance behaviours ( so chasing, mounting, rumbling). Actually these behaviours continue throughout life As they constantly reaffirm their bond.
Bullying is a sustained set of behaviours where one piggy just won’t let up and the others either become withdrawn (potentially start to lose weight) or they get fed up of it and fight back. Either outcome is bond breaking though.
I would not totally rule out taffy being the one you try with the girls. He is currently not thinking with his brain when it comes to seeing the girls - they are may put him in his place and he calms down and becomes a gentleman.
It may not be an option though - only you can decide!
I say this though because keeping two teen boars of the exact same age together has its risks also - they are hitting hormone spikes the same time and while most come through it together, not all do (highest hormone output at 6 months of age, with another hormone spike around 9 months of age). Dad and one son obviously won’t be hitting spikes at the same time.
Do keep in mind that if dad goes in with the girls and the two sons don’t make it as a pair, what would your plan be? You will still potentially have two single boars left. You can obviously only keep one boar in with the girls unless you split your girls and have each boar have his own set of ladies.
You're so helpful thank you.
When we got the boys (a call from a vet friend to help out) there were a lot of GP's being kept in a greenhouse, all separated by wire but all side by side, a lot of females and babies and different boys so very over run and quite chaotic, the boys were pretty stressed when we got them as you can imagine. We have 7 girls living happily together and the 3 boys share a hutch, they are all in the same large enclosure so they can go up to each others bars if they wanted to, Taff will become quite obsessive about this but the other 2 are chilled. Dad now sits on his own a lot and when out in the grass run, Taf will chase him a lot. Other son and dad seem quite chilled together.
It makes sense about their ages and hormones and being sensible, we can split 1 of the boys to live on his own but still be close by to see the others through bars - would it be a case of in 6 months they could be reintroduced or would that be too stressful and will never work? We have 2 old boys who live indoors so that would not work and we dont want to put them outdoors as they love it inside. I would be reluctant to split the girls as they have been a dream.
If we tried Taff with the girls - at what point do we think it is not working as I can imagine a lot of running round, noise and chasing - is that fair on the girls?
Thank you once again
Yes the vets confirmed they were neutered about 12 weeks ago
No sadly it’s not a case that they can be reintroduced to each other. Any fight or incompatibility including bullying is totally bond breaking for life. They won’t change their minds about each other and can never be reunited.
Space is the other issue as you mention hutch - a boar pair need 180x60cm. But there is no commercial hutch big enough to house a trio. A trio need 3 metres by 1 metre minimum of permanent space.
As bonding takes several stages you really have to gauge what happens at each stage. The full bonding process takes two weeks.
Don’t forget you cannot just put the boar directly into their enclosure as it will cause a fight. All the girls and the boar you decide to try with them
Must be put on totally neutral territory for several hours to start the bonding process. Only being returned to the enclosure once you are sure the process is going smoothly (ir will be dramatic though but drama doesn’t mean failure).
I’ve added in a few green links to guides throughout my replies to help you further
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Space is the other issue as you mention hutch - a boar pair need 180x60cm. But there is no commercial hutch big enough to house a trio. A trio need 3 metres by 1 metre minimum of permanent space.
As bonding takes several stages you really have to gauge what happens at each stage. The full bonding process takes two weeks.
Don’t forget you cannot just put the boar directly into their enclosure as it will cause a fight. All the girls and the boar you decide to try with them
Must be put on totally neutral territory for several hours to start the bonding process. Only being returned to the enclosure once you are sure the process is going smoothly (ir will be dramatic though but drama doesn’t mean failure).
I’ve added in a few green links to guides throughout my replies to help you further
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Thank you - that’s useful. The boys are probably just slightly short of space then, we’re just looking at building extensions as the other shed we have is brilliant but we can’t fit 2 in the enclosure but we can certainly adapt for more space.
You’ve given me a lot to think about and I appreciate that and will look at the links as well. And the if it comes to having a single pig then we’ll have to do a lot of enrichment!
You’ve given me a lot to think about and I appreciate that and will look at the links as well. And the if it comes to having a single pig then we’ll have to do a lot of enrichment!