Bullying boar

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Lili88

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Hi,
new GP owner here! I adopted three boars from my sister a week and a half ago. Their names are Steve, Stripes and Elvis. I have noticed after watching them that stripes is the alpha male and has quite a bullying nature. Stripes and Steve are brothers so just about tolerate each other, however Stripes does not like Elvis and seeks him out to show dominance. For example Stripes will not show any interest in food until Elvis does and then literally sneaks up behind him and either pushes Elvis out the way or charges at him. 🥺 poor Elvis never sticks up for himself he just runs away until he thinks the coast is clear again, but the same thing keeps happening again and again. I have tried waving my hands over the run as Stripes is very scared of humans but Elvis isn’t so it gives Elvis a few seconds further to eat. But I can’t keep doing that as it is no doubt causing anxiety to Stripes and probably Elvis too. I have just literally got another food tray to put on other side of run and I’m seeing if that helps but at the moment it isn’t because again stripes is just following Elvis wherever 🙄. Does anybody have any advice on this? Thanks.
 
Hi! :)
I am super sorry, but boar trios have a high chance of falling out. Please refer to this guide: Boars: Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Do Steve and Stripes have a bond with one another? You may need to separate two bonded boars from the third and find the separated boar a new cage mate. Is it possible for you to take in a fourth piggy?
Here is the rescue locator id bringing in another piggy is possible: Rescue Locator
Please refer to this guide for proper cage size: Cage Size Guide
If you end up adopting a fourth boar to bond with Elvis, the bare minimum, I believe, is 2 x 6, or 12 square feet per boar pair.
I am sure that someone with more experience will be here shortly. :)
I hope that this helps, though. :)
 
Hi, thanks for replying. So Steve and stripes get on better but only just, stripes can be mean to him too. So a bit of background is my sister didn’t take a lot of care with them, she was really busy and also didn’t have a whole lot of money spare to spend on them, they were in too far a small cage even for one guinea pig and I’m worried that the damage is already done tbh, I thought I was doing better for them buying a huge cage and run, but now I’m scared that changing everything might make things worse (although it’s early days). I’m attaching a picture of the run and hutch (it’s 6ft length by 3.5 ft wide on run and 6ft by 2ft on hutch) last night I put Stripes up in the hutch overnight (obviously with food and water and hay) and I think It made a difference to do that but he can’t stay up there forever as it’s much smaller and it is so hard to get stripes in and out of anywhere, he is very timid with humans, whereas Elvis is much more docile. Also I have been trying walking over to the run as soon as stripes creates a scene and telling Stripes In a low and quiet tone that I am not happy with him and then a high singy tone for Elvis and Steve and talking to them making sure they are ok. Stripes is paying attention to this and I am hoping, as he is so timid around humans that he will associate his bad behaviour with me coming over to him And eventually stop? I’m not sure if conditioning works with GP though 😂 I don’t think I can separate them, apart from putting one above the others in the hutch, but again I don’t think that is fair as hutch is much smaller, I feel bad for giving the unfortunate one paradise downstairs at first then trapping them up top. I’m terrified of putting them outside because of all the dangers(I have a woods in my back garden) and I only have a small house there is no more room for another cage of any kind, or more pigs as I would need to make the run even bigger for another one. I took them from my sister as she couldn’t handle them anymore and I felt bad. I also knew they weren’t being taken care of as well as they could have been, so I wanted to do better by them as I have lots of time on my hands and the means for better cage etc. I hope that all made sense. I have also read the link you added. It was useful. But in these circumstances they are adopted and have lived together for a year already so it’s slightly different circs. I hope all this made sense. I think I have rambled quite a bit but it’s late and I’m very 💤 .
 

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How old are they? And is there three of everything? Boar trips are a difficult balancing act so it’s quite a miracle that they’ve lived together for so long without anything happening.

Their general behaviour doesn’t sound like bullying, but not letting another piggy eat is. You’re best placed to have three bowls for the veg and pellets (one tablespoon each a day). Put them at three corners so one can’t hog them. That way everyone gets to eat.

I would also advise that you get them a bigger hutch/cage. 12sq deer is suitable for two boars but for three I’d go a lot bigger. As much as you can give them above that. The upstairs section isn’t enough to give them space to get away from each other. Do they spend the night upstairs or do they have access to the run 24/7?

Have a read of the threads below and see what normal dominance behaviour is. Another thing to note is that changes to environment - moving - can lead to a display of dominance as the hierarchy is reestablished. Chasing, mounting and jumping is considered normal. Have a read of the below and see.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
 
Sorry if I gave any bad advice! I thought from your first message that they were fighting and therefore needed to be separated!
I apologize for causing unnecessary worry. :)
 
Siikibam said:
How old are they? And is there three of everything? Boar trips are a difficult balancing act so it’s quite a miracle that they’ve lived together for so long without anything happening.

Their general behaviour doesn’t sound like bullying, but not letting another piggy eat is. You’re best placed to have three bowls for the veg and pellets (one tablespoon each a day). Put them at three corners so one can’t hog them. That way everyone gets to eat.

I would also advise that you get them a bigger hutch/cage. 12sq deer is suitable for two boars but for three I’d go a lot bigger. As much as you can give them above that. The upstairs section isn’t enough to give them space to get away from each other. Do they spend the night upstairs or do they have access to the run 24/7?

Have a read of the threads below and see what normal dominance behaviour is. Another thing to note is that changes to environment - moving - can lead to a display of dominance as the hierarchy is reestablished. Chasing, mounting and jumping is considered normal. Have a read of the below and see.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Click to expand...
Hi,
They are just over a year old, so according to the link you posted which I had already looked at before I posted, but thank you all the same, They are going through their teenage years I think? So perhaps this is contributing? In terms of run space (where they spend all their time together at the bottom) it is 6ft by 3.7ft so correct me if I’m wrong but to work that out as square feet to me that comes to 22.2sq ft? (6x3.7=22.2) And the hutch is 12sq ft (which is the part on the top in the picture), they don’t go up to the hutch unless I want them to, The hutch is accessed via a ladder which they haven’t worked out yet and if I choose for them not to go up or down there is a hatch door you can close. I have no intentions of them all crowding into the hutch tbh as I could tell when I got it that it was way too small for all of them, however I think it may be perfect for chill out time for Elvis alone if things get too much? What do you think? I’m saying moving Elvis up there as he is the easiest to move. But I would also feel bad moving him from the lovely run downstairs as he is the one being picked on but stripes is so hard to catch and gets so anxious about it, stripes was actually in there last night whole night because I wanted Elvis and Steve to have a peaceful night. However, stripes was so hard to get in there, I even have a carrier for them and he just won’t go near it. He is very distrusting of humans and I am starting to question why and what happened but I will work with him. 🥰 I am slowly introducing an extra bowl and water each. yesterday they had just one, today they had two and things were actually a bit easier and I have ordered another of bowl and water bottle to come for tomorrow. Thank god for amazon! 😆 it’s a learning process and I have not got off google in the last week doing as much as I can and getting as much info and the right equipment to give them the happy lives they deserve. I really hope the behaviour settles down and I am starting to come to terms with the fact that only more time will tell at this point.
 
Mo & Stubbins & Vani said:
Sorry if I gave any bad advice! I thought from your first message that they were fighting and therefore needed to be separated!
I apologize for causing unnecessary worry. :)
Click to expand...
That’s ok my love. I think it’s all my rambling that has caused people to switch off and just skim my nonsense haha. I do go on.
 
Siikibam said:
How old are they? And is there three of everything? Boar trips are a difficult balancing act so it’s quite a miracle that they’ve lived together for so long without anything happening.

Their general behaviour doesn’t sound like bullying, but not letting another piggy eat is. You’re best placed to have three bowls for the veg and pellets (one tablespoon each a day). Put them at three corners so one can’t hog them. That way everyone gets to eat.

I would also advise that you get them a bigger hutch/cage. 12sq deer is suitable for two boars but for three I’d go a lot bigger. As much as you can give them above that. The upstairs section isn’t enough to give them space to get away from each other. Do they spend the night upstairs or do they have access to the run 24/7?

Have a read of the threads below and see what normal dominance behaviour is. Another thing to note is that changes to environment - moving - can lead to a display of dominance as the hierarchy is reestablished. Chasing, mounting and jumping is considered normal. Have a read of the below and see.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Click to expand...
Actually looking at the dominance thread you sent me (which is different to what I thought I had read) I would say they fall more into the category of the normal dominance there has been no escalations past this since I have had them. The chasing is what he is doing. There are no noises just butt bumps or shoving to the side when Elvis is eating so he can get to the best food instead. He just went chasing him again though for no reason and they both squealed and I wasn’t happy so I talked to stripes and told him I was disappointed like the guides tell you and he actually came to me and let me pick him up and I have put him in the hutch at top alone with fresh hay and water. I think that’s the right thing to do at night? because I can’t keep an eye on them. Stripes seems happy up there so far he looking out of his bed at me chewing hay unbothered by his actions haha. The little monkey 🐒
 
Lili88 said:
Actually looking at the dominance thread you sent me (which is different to what I thought I had read) I would say they fall more into the category of the normal dominance there has been no escalations past this since I have had them. The chasing is what he is doing. There are no noises just butt bumps or shoving to the side when Elvis is eating so he can get to the best food instead. He just went chasing him again though for no reason and they both squealed and I wasn’t happy so I talked to stripes and told him I was disappointed like the guides tell you and he actually came to me and let me pick him up and I have put him in the hutch at top alone with fresh hay and water. I think that’s the right thing to do at night? because I can’t keep an eye on them. Stripes seems happy up there so far he looking out of his bed at me chewing hay unbothered by his actions haha. The little monkey 🐒
Click to expand...
Just to establish stripes would only be in there in night of this works nicely and then when I wake up I will put him back in the bottom run, will wait for the extra food tray and water bottle and see if things improve

thanks
 
When you put him upstairs do the others go up there or they stay downstairs only? If the latter then it’s akin to separation. You can’t do that and then put them together again in the morning. It’s akin to bonding again, which should be done by putting them on neutral ground with just hay.

I would suggest if you’re going to keep doing that then you need to put him separate for now until you’re ready to bond them all again. You then have to clean out the cage thoroughly before you put them back. But as I said, that upstairs space does need to be bigger if they stay upstairs all night without access to the run.

As said, chasing is within the norm and squealing is submission from the other piggy. And as they’re in new digs, he feels he has to make his position known. So don’t chastise him for doing what is normal to him. And leave him with them.

Whenever you’re dealing with them, you have to go in order from top pig to under pig. You need to always feed, stroke, pick up, put back the top pig (?) first. You’ll also need 3 bottles (I only see one). The hay can be put in three piles in the run, and some upstairs if one of them wanders up there. As well as a bottle for upstairs.

You could also scatter feed the veg and pellets so there’s no chance of hogging there either.
 
Ok as I said, no, they can’t get up there. It is locked with the trap door. It is just stripes up there tonight alone. But I will take your advice and bring him back down now. They were fine all day today together again after he was in there all night last night. Only problem is at meal times and the occasional other time as I said, but that has been happening since they were with my sister and it wasn’t nipped in the bud with her. They sit in separate corners and snooze or go and play with their toy things in the day in the run. It is literally just when they come close to each other or the food comes they clash. More background is that my sister was feeding them from same bowl since they were babies in a hutch that was I would say 4-5ft long and not even 2 ft wide. That is all they knew until they have came to me. It will not be easy to break their habits like hogging and sharing food, but I will certainly try my best. Just to reiterate to you again, I will never put more than one of them up in the hutch at any one time. I understand the hutch is not big enough and I saw this from as soon as I put it up. I don’t want any pig being picked on and I am only just learning about their behaviour so I am doing the best I can, I didn’t think I was chastising but I will learn from that certainly, so thank you 😊. Yes I have two water bottles and I have ordered a third coming tomorrow. When I took that picture the one water bottle was upstairs as I had just put the run and hutch up and was still tweaking things. You can see in picture one water bottle downstairs and one upstairs. I can’t scatter hay everywhere at the moment as I am allergic and trying to figure out how to solve that. They have hay in bed and in hay rack, it will probably be extremely unlikely they will ever wander up the ladder it is very long and steep, too steep in fact for guinea pigs, not sure why it has been built that way and there is also a lockable trap door from the ladder to the hutch. I think it’s easier if I just send you the link to what I bought. Because I’m just explaining myself over and over 😂🥰6ft Guinea Pig Hutch & Run Kendal | Free Delivery | H&R
 
I’m familiar with the hutch as I looked at it long ago. You can put something under the end of the ladder so it’s not as steep. Also think about putting some sides on it, or a tunnel of some sort so that they feel safer going up and down it.

I would do three piles of hay in the corners then scatter feed the veg and pellets. That way no hogging can occur. There are a few members on here also allergic to hay. Have a search and see what they do.

If they are fine during the day then I would leave them to it.
 
The chasing and squealing all sounds pretty normal (although of course we are not on the ground so go with your instincts if you think there is a concern). It is possible that repeatedly separating them and putting them back together is exacerbating the behaviour since they may feel them have to re-establish the hierarchy once they rejoin the group.

If the only issue is with feeding, then you can fix this by making sure you either scatter the food all over the place, or put it in three different corners at the same time. Since your dominant piggy cannot be in three places at once, everyone should get their fair share.
 
Hi, they seem to have settled in and are doing much better. 3 food trays and 3 water bottles helped a lot. They don’t stick to their own they will move from one to the other in succession 😂 but I think this is normal, they are not squabbling anymore though which I’m pleased about. Researching more into dominance I think that is what I have been seeing and stripes is clearly vying to be king of the castle. Elvis has found a good hiding spot though that seems to be working for him so that’s good. One thing is, last night instead of running from stripes when he was chased, Elvis squealed (very similar squeal to wheeking for food) and I’m trying to figure out what that could have meant. Is that like a back off call? I was worried he was in pain but checked him over and he seemed fine. I know they can hide any pain well though 😖I have booked to take them all to the vets for a check up early next week though and if anything worries me more I will take Elvis straight to vets without hesitation, they have never been to vets in their life though (I have appropriate guinea pig insurance to cover rising costs if needed) . I feel like a mother to newborn babies! 😂 every noise I’m googling in worry. Hopefully we will all settle down. They also got their first grooming next month (earliest date I could get) so that should be interesting. So all in all, thank you all for your advice.
 
Thank you for the update - all sounds positive 😊
 
By the way, the noise you are describing could be Elvis's way of acknowledging the dominance of his cage mate. This "submission squealing" is explained in the dominance guide I think (appreciate that there is a lot of information to get your head around on one go - I've definitely found it's worth rereading the forum guides every now and again!)
 
Squeaking is submission and not pain. Glad to hear they’re settled again. I would try and make their upper sleeping area bigger if possible.
 
I’m really starting to get fed up with how dirty everything gets within just a couple of hours though. It’s really frustrating. I have towels on floor two layers thick, on top of that disposable puppy pads, on top of that reusable puppy pads, and a fleece liner on top of that and still it is somehow getting wee and poo through the layers! Mainly wee though, I am cleaning it thoroughly every 24hrs and spot cleaning three times a day and I also have a litter box which I think one or maybe two of them are using. How on earth is it all still smelling like a rotting babies nappy after 24hrs? I am absolutely exhausted tbh. It’s becoming a bit of a joke where am I going wrong with this?
 
Lili88 said:
I’m really starting to get fed up with how dirty everything gets within just a couple of hours though. It’s really frustrating. I have towels on floor two layers thick, on top of that disposable puppy pads, on top of that reusable puppy pads, and a fleece liner on top of that and still it is somehow getting wee and poo through the layers! Mainly wee though, I am cleaning it thoroughly every 24hrs and spot cleaning three times a day and I also have a litter box which I think one or maybe two of them are using. How on earth is it all still smelling like a rotting babies nappy after 24hrs? I am absolutely exhausted tbh. It’s becoming a bit of a joke where am I going wrong with this?
Click to expand...
I can’t leave the cage any longer than 2 days without it smelling dreadful.
 
The point of fleece is for the urine to wick through to the absorbent later underneath. How often are you changing the puppy pads under the fleece? If it’s getting through to the towels then that could be a problem - they won’t really dry quickly and can start to smell if they’re wet. I’d say put an additional puppy pad (perhaps washable) or pee pad in the high traffic area - where they sleep and where they eat hay.

Is the hay in the litter box? If not what is in it? And what bedding do you use in it? Guinea pigs can’t be litter trained so if you put it there for them to just poo and wee in then I would just take it out. Otherwise I don’t know what else could be causing the smell.
 
Ours live in a shed so I may be less sensitive to the smell, but this doesn't seem normal to me.

It might be worth starting a new thread with a different title in the housing section on this because people might have helpful tips on this topic that wouldn't necessarily chip in on a boat behaviour thread.
 
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