Bonding Post-Neutered Boar and Sow

[MoruMum]

Hi,

A brief history:
I've adopted a 3-year-old boar named Squeak, who recently lost his cage mate. Squeak used to be bullied a lot by his previous companion.
Since he became single he's come out of his shell, trusting us and revealing a confident and goofy personality, and we love him to bits. We wanted to ensure he has a happy retirement (he used to be a school guinea pig), so we've recently added a 3-year-old rescue sow to the family.

Squeak has recently been neutered, so Butterscotch have been living separately but with the ability to touch their noses.
Signs are promising, with Butterscotch showing trust and happiness in our presence (she wheeked for an excitement for a cucumber today for the first time). The match between them seems great, no teeth chattering or aggression to each other. I think Squeak is totally besotted to Butterscotch (Butterscotch, I think, secretly fancies Squeak too).

Problem:
There's one concern—Squeak's enthusiasm has led him to bite the C&C cages in an attempt to get closer to Butterscotch. I worry about potential harm to his teeth or jaw due to this behaviour.

Tomorrow marks five weeks post-neutering for Squeak. While I've read recommendations to separate boars and sows for six weeks post-neutering, I've also come across information suggesting a range of 4-6 weeks. Is it too early to introduce them fully after five weeks?

I'd greatly appreciate your advice on whether it's safe to have them together after tomorrow (may be a few days into 5th week) or if waiting the full six weeks is necessary. Your insights would be invaluable!

 

[fluffysal]

Good for you arranging things so they can have a good life together. All the moderators and experienced members will all advise to wait until 6 weeks. Have you any pictures? We love pictures

 

[MoruMum]

Thank you @fluffysal Yes. This next 7days will be my longest week ever!
Here is the picture of my enthusiastic Squeak and his sow-wife to be Butterscotch.
Can guineapigs hurt their teeth by biting on C&C cages?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,

A brief history:
I've adopted a 3-year-old boar named Squeak, who recently lost his cage mate. Squeak used to be bullied a lot by his previous companion.
Since he became single he's come out of his shell, trusting us and revealing a confident and goofy personality, and we love him to bits. We wanted to ensure he has a happy retirement (he used to be a school guinea pig), so we've recently added a 3-year-old rescue sow to the family.

Squeak has recently been neutered, so Butterscotch have been living separately but with the ability to touch their noses.
Signs are promising, with Butterscotch showing trust and happiness in our presence (she wheeked for an excitement for a cucumber today for the first time). The match between them seems great, no teeth chattering or aggression to each other. I think Squeak is totally besotted to Butterscotch (Butterscotch, I think, secretly fancies Squeak too).

Problem:
There's one concern—Squeak's enthusiasm has led him to bite the C&C cages in an attempt to get closer to Butterscotch. I worry about potential harm to his teeth or jaw due to this behaviour.

Tomorrow marks five weeks post-neutering for Squeak. While I've read recommendations to separate boars and sows for six weeks post-neutering, I've also come across information suggesting a range of 4-6 weeks. Is it too early to introduce them fully after five weeks?

I'd greatly appreciate your advice on whether it's safe to have them together after tomorrow (may be a few days into 5th week) or if waiting the full six weeks is necessary. Your insights would be invaluable!

Hi

The little baby in my avatar on the left, Tegan Syndod 'Little Beautiful Surprise' in Welsh (2011-19), is the surprise legacy of a supposedly safe over 5 weeks post-op boar (not one of mine), just to give you some first-hand feedback that it can really happen as late as that. Yes, it is rare but like with any lottery ticket you can never count on being safe - there really is a crucial difference between mostly safe and totally safe. Personally, I don't feel it worth going through all the expense and the wait and then throw it away in the last week.

Anyway, I have done the full 6 weeks wait last with my two baby boys born here a year ago (to a pregnant rescued sow) back in March/April. The last week is always the most tedious but the brothers now leach live here with female company. Brangwyn has been accepted by Dylan's widows Begw and Beti and his brother Baeddan now lives with his 6 weeks older half-sister Blodyn. The one extra week doesn't make any difference in the long run apart from not sitting there for the next 10 weeks with the niggle at the back of your mind as to whether Butterscotch may be pregnant or not.

It is likely that Buttersquash has been in season and has emitted some intoxicating female pheromones to whip Squeak into a bit of a frenzy. She won't do that again before the 6 weeks are over but the first seasons together tend to be stronger ones since the share excess of pheromones and emotions helps to bond boars and sows together more closely.

All the best!
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
A Closer Look At Pairs (Boars - Sows - Mixed)
When Sows Experience A Strong Season (videos)

 

[fluffysal]

They look lovely together I have no experience of bar biting but have seen others recommend using a tea towel or cardboard to cover the bars if you are worried. George and Boris say hello

 

[MoruMum]

The one extra week doesn't make any difference in the long run apart from not sitting there for the next 10 weeks with the niggle at the back of your mind as to whether Butterscotch may be pregnant or not.

That is actually so true. Ok this gives me confidence that I will wait for a full 6 week. Thank you.

It's totally crazy that after 5 weeks post op that they still managed to make babies (however the little Tegan Syndod is very cute).
Fingers crossed that Squeak and Butterscotch will bond well! I shall update in due course

 

[MoruMum]

@fluffysal George and Boris are so sweet! Thank you for the photo. I love their little eyes and noses.
I will wait until a full 6 weeks has passed. I will have to make myself busy! Thank you and I will update how the bonding goes

 

[Wiebke]

That is actually so true. Ok this gives me confidence that I will wait for a full 6 week. Thank you.

It's totally crazy that after 5 weeks post op that they still managed to make babies (however the little Tegan Syndod is very cute).
Fingers crossed that Squeak and Butterscotch will bond well! I shall update in due course

Sperm can actually stay alive for up to three months but 6 weeks seems to be the practical cut-off point after which births become so rare as to be statistically negligeable.

After Tegan's birth exactly 12 years ago today I got to hear from quite a few people with verifiable second-hand experience (i.e. they knew the people who had had an over 5 weeks post-op baby) but there had been always rumours and there was quite a big debate going on about where to place a safe cut-off recommendation at that time.
Before Tegan we were sadly fairly regularly contacted to already know that 4 weeks was not safe enough but Tegan solved the debate between a 5 or 6 weeks wait as a well known and easily verifiable case.
In over a decade of the RSPCA and the Blue Cross plus other good standard rescues practising the 6 weeks cut we have never heard of a later birth - and it would have made the rounds like wildfire so with thousands of rescue boars neutered during that time we do have a statistically relevant basis for our 6 weeks recommendation.

It is not often that a little piggy baby will influence countrywide welfare policy but my Tegan has exactly done that. I have been blessed that she has lived to nearly 8 years. She was quite a complex personality and definitely one of my more memorable piggies.



See the time next door as making friends time, which will benefit the bonding because acceptance chances will be greater and the bonding itself that little bit calmer since Squeak can work off some of his hormonal over-excitement now.

 

[MoruMum]

Thank you @Wiebke for sharing the beautiful picture of Tegan. I think I will have to photograph Squeak and Butterscotch "professionally". What a special story for her that Tegan has influenced countryside welfare policy - she made a history! I used to take care of old frail cats before my children and having guinea pigs was just by chance because of my daughter and I am so excited to discover the wonderful world of piggies.

I shall be reporting you all how the bonding goes. Squeak is currently very patiently sitting in the hay area where he can meet Butterscotch.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you @Wiebke for sharing the beautiful picture of Tegan. I think I will have to photograph Squeak and Butterscotch "professionally". What a special story for her that Tegan has influenced countryside welfare policy - she made a history! I used to take care of old frail cats before my children and having guinea pigs was just by chance because of my daughter and I am so excited to discover the wonderful world of piggies.

I shall be reporting you all how the bonding goes. Squeak is currently very patiently sitting in the hay area where he can meet Butterscotch.

All the best!

Please be aware that a submissive sow will allow a boar to mount her when meeting but that a dominant sow will not - the boar has to wait until she is in season and she will insist on her private sphere, which depends on how confident she feels in herself. Many bondings fail when a boar senses the insecurity and keeps pushing exactly when they should be taking a step back.

My 'photo lab' is a chair by our south facing french door with a plain fleece thrown over and the spot lights on as well... I am kneeling on the floor in order to get on eye height with the camera. Opening the doors to garden a little can help with bringing interesting scents so they lift their heads. Grass, pellets or treat mixes can also help because chewing faces can make for great facial expressions. Be prepared to get just a few good pictures out of 50-100, most of which you will have to delete.

 

[fluffysal]

How is it going?

 

[MoruMum]

So, here's an update on bonding Squeak and Butterscotch.

Last week went very slowly for me, as you can imagine. I tried to keep myself busy by making a guinea pig hammock.

Yesterday, we put both Butterscotch and Squeak into a brand new IKEA-hacked cage together. There was absolutely no teeth chattering, just happy rumbling and eating hay together – almost anticlimactic!
However, there were a couple of moments when Squeak was too eager to groom Butterscotch, and she tried to bite him back. This doesn't happen anymore - I think Squeak has learnt his lesson.

I'm not sure which one is dominant; I can't read guinea pig body language yet.
Squeak grooms Butterscotch at the back of her ears, and she seems to like it, but she doesn't like being humped, although she doesn't seem to hump him at all.

This morning, they are sleeping very close to each other, and they seem to have agreed on their own favourite spot. So, all in all, I think the bonding went well?

It's wonderful to see Squeak enjoying his new life with his guinea-wife. He is so eager to please her, and she gains lots of confidence from Squeak. It really puts a smile on my face.

---as for my handmade hammock, they loved it so much that they have already broken it....

Now, one question: Squeak has been with us for 2 and a half weeks. When I adopted her, I asked the adoption lady why she is shaped a little avocado-shaped. The lady told me that many older sows tend to be bottom-heavy. So, I simply accepted it. But I can't help but wonder why she has such a round stomach. If a guinea pig's pregnancy lasts for 8-10 weeks (correct me if I am wrong), and Butterscotch and Squeak haven't been together before the 6 weeks post-neutering period, could she have conceived before?

I have attached several images of happy Squeak and Butterscotch, as well as an image of Butterscotch's suspicious round tummy.

<iframe src="IMG_6555 on Vimeo" width="640" height="564" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[MoruMum]

How is it going?

Hello @fluffysal! I am well - Squeak and Butterscotch are now in the same cage! How are George and Boris?

 

[Piggies&buns]

So, here's an update on bonding Squeak and Butterscotch.

Last week went very slowly for me, as you can imagine. I tried to keep myself busy by making a guinea pig hammock.

Yesterday, we put both Butterscotch and Squeak into a brand new IKEA-hacked cage together. There was absolutely no teeth chattering, just happy rumbling and eating hay together – almost anticlimactic!
However, there were a couple of moments when Squeak was too eager to groom Butterscotch, and she tried to bite him back. This doesn't happen anymore - I think Squeak has learnt his lesson.

I'm not sure which one is dominant; I can't read guinea pig body language yet.
Squeak grooms Butterscotch at the back of her ears, and she seems to like it, but she doesn't like being humped, although she doesn't seem to hump him at all.

This morning, they are sleeping very close to each other, and they seem to have agreed on their own favourite spot. So, all in all, I think the bonding went well?

It's wonderful to see Squeak enjoying his new life with his guinea-wife. He is so eager to please her, and she gains lots of confidence from Squeak. It really puts a smile on my face.

---as for my handmade hammock, they loved it so much that they have already broken it....

Now, one question: Squeak has been with us for 2 and a half weeks. When I adopted her, I asked the adoption lady why she is shaped a little avocado-shaped. The lady told me that many older sows tend to be bottom-heavy. So, I simply accepted it. But I can't help but wonder why she has such a round stomach. If a guinea pig's pregnancy lasts for 8-10 weeks (correct me if I am wrong), and Butterscotch and Squeak haven't been together before the 6 weeks post-neutering period, could she have conceived before?

I have attached several images of happy Squeak and Butterscotch, as well as an image of Butterscotch's suspicious round tummy.

<iframe src="IMG_6555 on Vimeo" width="640" height="564" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Dominant sows don’t allow themselves to be mounted unless they are in season.

It sounds like a very successful bonding.

A pregnancy lasts 10 weeks. Yes they can be that kind of shape without being pregnant. All you can do is wait out the full 10 weeks if you think she has been with a boar.

 

[MoruMum]

@Wiebke
Thank you.
They are currently pondering close to each other on something at their favourite positions.
I will keep a very close eye on that tummy - Have a lovely weekend!

 

[Wiebke]

So, here's an update on bonding Squeak and Butterscotch.

Last week went very slowly for me, as you can imagine. I tried to keep myself busy by making a guinea pig hammock.

Yesterday, we put both Butterscotch and Squeak into a brand new IKEA-hacked cage together. There was absolutely no teeth chattering, just happy rumbling and eating hay together – almost anticlimactic!
However, there were a couple of moments when Squeak was too eager to groom Butterscotch, and she tried to bite him back. This doesn't happen anymore - I think Squeak has learnt his lesson.

I'm not sure which one is dominant; I can't read guinea pig body language yet.
Squeak grooms Butterscotch at the back of her ears, and she seems to like it, but she doesn't like being humped, although she doesn't seem to hump him at all.

This morning, they are sleeping very close to each other, and they seem to have agreed on their own favourite spot. So, all in all, I think the bonding went well?

It's wonderful to see Squeak enjoying his new life with his guinea-wife. He is so eager to please her, and she gains lots of confidence from Squeak. It really puts a smile on my face.

---as for my handmade hammock, they loved it so much that they have already broken it....

Now, one question: Squeak has been with us for 2 and a half weeks. When I adopted her, I asked the adoption lady why she is shaped a little avocado-shaped. The lady told me that many older sows tend to be bottom-heavy. So, I simply accepted it. But I can't help but wonder why she has such a round stomach. If a guinea pig's pregnancy lasts for 8-10 weeks (correct me if I am wrong), and Butterscotch and Squeak haven't been together before the 6 weeks post-neutering period, could she have conceived before?

I have attached several images of happy Squeak and Butterscotch, as well as an image of Butterscotch's suspicious round tummy.

<iframe src="IMG_6555 on Vimeo" width="640" height="564" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; fullscreen" allowfullscreen></iframe>

If a little nipping is the most dominant behaviour you have seen, then it very much looks like love on first sniff. Any mating will have to wait until Butterscotch comes into season.

I would have Butterscotch vet checked for overweight, potential ovarian cysts or a potential pregnancy (which would only show in ca. the last 2-3 weeks of a 10 week one, by which time any babies should show clearly on a scan or x-ray)if you have any concerns and for your own peace of mind. She looks a little on the well-nourished side to me but her figure doesn't ring any immediate alarm bells, not that we can diagnose a pregnancy (unless in the last stages with a larger litter) by eye only.
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...t-diagnose-a-pregnancy-from-a-picture.179077/
Weight - Monitoring and Management

 

[fluffysal]

I'm so pleased that they are getting on well. George and Boris are noisy, naughty and extremely adorable, thanks for asking. Fingers crossed that she's just heavy.