Bonding neutered boar and sows

[Vida]

I thought this would be like bonding sows, a bit of rumbling, some nose lifting, etc.
I had placed my neutered boar in the C&C space next to the sows for the last few weeks so they could smell each other and touch noses... and that went well.
But yesterday, 6 weeks after his op, I placed Vashtian with Ash and Chestnut.
Well the girls weren't taking any of his intents and strutted and rumbled and lifted their noses at him. I have gotten home from work today to find hair in streaks in the cage. I have checked the three of them and can't see any wounds or any hair loss, but it obviously belongs to one of them... they are all the same colour... and they are hiding in each corner and space. It is a big 6 x 3 cage so they have plenty of room, but I wonder if this just needs time or if these girls just aren't the right ones for Vashtian.
I am really concerned as Arwyn goes in for his op next week too.

Should I just give them more time or change partners?

 

[zombieprincess]

Personally i would give them a little longer as long as no blood has been drawn. It an be a slow process, after all, you cannot expect a group of people to become great friends in a day, and like wise you cannot guinea pigs. If once Arwyn is neautered and is able to go with girls, and Vashtian still hasn't appeared to cbonded with his sows you may consider swithing who you were going to try them with.

 

[piggyfan]

How are they all now?

 

[Vida]

One sow hiding in a box. The other sow on top of the hay basket, in a corner. The boar by the hay, near the one in the basket, but keeping his distance. The two sows have fallen out aswell.

 

[piggyfan]

Well they are not fighting or teeth chattering which is positive. Maybe they will start to make up.

 

[zombieprincess]

Vida, i'd just like to apolagize for all those spelling mistakes i made. I've just re-read my comment and i can barely make head nor tail of it! Ooops.

 

[Wiebke]

I am sorry - not all sows accept a boar; you need to be around to make sure that they do. If you just stick them together, fights can happen. By the sound of it, acceptance has not happened from at least one of the girls.

You may have to separate again.

 

[Vida]

Vida, i'd just like to apolagize for all those spelling mistakes i made. I've just re-read my comment and i can barely make head nor tail of it! Ooops.

No problem. I understood. Thanks so much.

I am sorry - not all sows accept a boar; you need to be around to make sure that they do. If you just stick them together, fights can happen. By the sound of it, acceptance has not happened from at least one of the girls.

You may have to separate again.

Oh no!
I am neutering my other two boars. One this Thursday. The idea was to make two trios of neutered boar and 2 sows, and a pair of sow and neutered boar (mum and dad to the rest). mallethead
If this sow doesn't want a boar, it throws everything in the air as I am not sure I can have 4 groups.... any suggestions? :{

I can't just plonk sows in and out in the hope of some accepting the boar. What do I do!! ?/

 

[piggyfan]

Even if you neuter three boars they still cannot live together. Boars live best in pairs. How many boars and sows do you have? Maybe we can help you think of a solution.

 

[Vida]

I have 3 boars:
Rudy, dad, 15 months.
Arwyn, not quite 7 months, due to be neutered on Thursday.
Vashtian, not quite 7 months, neutered 6 weeks ago.

And 5 sows:
Matty, mum, 15 months
Willow, 9 months,
Ash, 9 months,
Chestnut, 9 months,
Tara, not quite 7 months.

The idea was to put them in the following groups:
Vashtian, Chestnut, Ash
Arwyn, Willow, Tara
Rudy, Matty

Right now they are living like this:
Vashtian, Chestnut, Ash (this is the group with the problem)
Matty, Willow, Tara (Matty is very dominant with all the sows)
Rudy and Arwyn

The whole idea of neutering the boars was because they didn't get on as a trio and because I wanted to get Rudy and Matty back together again. They were always together, since birth and were separated when Matty had her first litter (when I discovered Matty was a female) in May.

 

[Vida]

I have 3 boars:
Rudy, dad, 15 months.
Arwyn, not quite 7 months, due to be neutered on Thursday.
Vashtian, not quite 7 months, neutered 6 weeks ago.

And 5 sows:
Matty, mum, 15 months
Willow, 9 months,
Ash, 9 months,
Chestnut, 9 months,
Tara, not quite 7 months.

The idea was to put them in the following groups:
Vashtian, Chestnut, Ash
Arwyn, Willow, Tara
Rudy, Matty

Right now they are living like this:
Vashtian, Chestnut, Ash (this is the group with the problem)
Matty, Willow, Tara (Matty is very dominant with all the sows)
Rudy and Arwyn

The whole idea of neutering the boars was because they didn't get on as a trio and because I wanted to get Rudy and Matty back together again. They were always together, since birth and were separated when Matty had her first litter (when I discovered Matty was a female) in May.

 

[Wiebke]

You will have to try and see which boar works with which girls. You also need to do the whole introductions on neutral ground.
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38562

Piggy bonding is unfortunately not as straightforward as many people think. Piggies can be very picky who they gel with, especially dominant mature sows. I always take mine boar dating for exactly that reason.

 

[piggyfan]

How about putting chestnut or ask with the Maddy group and seeing if the remaining two will bond? Of course you will have to rebond the whole Maddy group on neutral ground.

 

[Vida]

I just feel like crying. I tried to put Chestnut with the girls and Tara with the pair and that is going disastrous too. What's the point of putting Arwyn through an op if this is going to be the outcome. I feel like just bonding all the sows again and letting Vashtian live on his own... but the whole point of neutering him was so that he wouldn't live on his own for ever. I thought that was cruel. But as my husband pointed out this morning, isn't it cruel to live with someone who is attacking you all the time and doesn't want you... best to be alone.

 

[Vida]

I am trying Ash (s) and Vashtian (b) as a pair now. I had them for a long time just sitting on me, on a fleece, next to each other. They are all terrified of me so they just sat still, side by side as I cuddled them and stroked them. They are not fighting now, as long as Vashtian doesn't try to mount Ash, then she pushes him away and chases him.

 

[piggyfan]

Oh I am so sorry for all this. It is very upsetting and disappointing. Are you introducing them on neutral ground? That is very important and also to have the cage clean before putting them in there.

 

[Wiebke]

Can you give them just time (2 day to 2 weeks) living next to each other? The more and the quicker you push after a fail, the more the piggies will dig in their heels. Give them time to relax and cool down.

 

[Vida]

Yes, it's neutral ground. And has been cleaned and washed first too. They lived next to each other for a month before this. I am just going to let it be for now. Give them a few days of calming down and relaxing. They are all so lovely. I just wish they could all get along.

 

[Connie]

I know this must be heartbreaking, but as the other two boys (that are not yet neutered) are currently living in a happy pair i really wouldnt disturb that.

Personally, I would leave them as a pair,

Gradually find Vashtian a girl he can live in a pair with, and leave the girls however makes them happy.

 

[Vida]

Isn't there the possibility that they will fall out? There is a lot of rumbling and trying to mount each other. I thought that since their living area is so close to the females, it was just a question of time until they fell out. I really wanted Rudy and Matty to go back living together too. She is extremely dominant with all the females. I thought that they wouldn't have problems living together as they have always done so and have been apart 9 months. Or is that too long?
I am so confused now.

Good thing is that Vashtian and Ash, whilst not being friendly with each other, are not attacking each other and seem to just be sharing a cage ok.

 

[Vida]

Isn't there the possibility that they will fall out? There is a lot of rumbling and trying to mount each other. I thought that since their living area is so close to the females, it was just a question of time until they fell out. I really wanted Rudy and Matty to go back living together too. She is extremely dominant with all the females. I thought that they wouldn't have problems living together as they have always done so and have been apart 9 months. Or is that too long?
I am so confused now.

Good thing is that Vashtian and Ash, whilst not being friendly with each other, are not attacking each other and seem to just be sharing a cage ok.