Bonding 2 male guniea pigs, kinda confused and lost and need advice

FOOL

FOOL

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So this is kinda a long story, but i use to have 2 male gunie pigs, they were brothers, the seller didnt know the age of the guniea pigs and so neither do i. I didnt initially take care of them, a family member did, but they weren't taking care of them properly so i took them in, we got them about 3 years ago now. Sadly, one of the brothers died (Haku), and left the other one (Yuuko) all alone, Yuuko was heavily attached to Haku, and i got another male for him (Yubaba). Yubaba is WAYYY younger then Yuuko is, and when i brought yubaba home they accidentally met head on because he jumped into yuukos cage. A fight broke out and i picked up yuuko up to break it up (Yes.. I learned my lesson, i now have a deep scar on my thumb and i will not be doing that again) I checked them for blood and from what i could tell there wasnt any. They've been living side by side for months now, and today I'm bonding them.

So its been about 3 hours into the bonding process, this is my first time ever doing this, i only separated them once cus it was getting scary. They were teeth chattering and butt sway here and there, not alot of mounting at all. They were also going on opposite sides of the cage alot and just laying down. Whenever they get face to face and start rubbling, one will just walk away eventually, i cant tell whose more dominant and whose more submissive. I'm not sure if I'm making any progress, and i would really love advice on anything, what am i doing wrong or something i should change. Or if i should simply continue the process.
 
I’m sorry for your loss.

Swaying their bottoms is rumblestrutting and is a very mild dominance behaviour.
You should never separate because of it.

Teeth chattering - it depends on the severity of it. A mild chattering is mild dominance. Again, not concerning
A loud chattering, circling each other, hair on end is all more threatening and more concerning.

If they are not actually fighting then you need to leave them to it. You only ever separate is there is an actual fight.
Leave them in neutral territory for as long as it takes for you to feel they are settling. This can be a few hours, it can be all day and it can also include being in neutral territory overnight.

If all is well and you feel confident to love them to their permanent cage (once it has been cleaned out) then they will take the next two weeks to fully sort out their bond.

Make sure you don’t use any hides which only have one door. A single exit hide can be a flashpoint for a fight to occur inside when one piggy feels trapped

The guides below explain further

Wiebke

Thread 'Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics'

1 Introduction
2 Pre-bonding
- Quarantine and sexing
- The need for a plan B
- The rule-breaker: Youngsters under 4 months (sub-teenage)
3 Setting up an introduction
- Getting to know each other
- ‘Buddy baths’ – why not
- Scent swapping - why not
- Setting up a neutral bonding area
- How to start the bonding
4 Acceptance phase: Do we like...
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boureki

Thread 'Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs'

1 List of dominance behaviours in ascending order of aggression
2 What may cause this type of behaviour in boars?
3 When do you see these behaviours in sows?
4 What can trigger fall-outs?
5 Further helpful guide links


I thought it may be handy to have a sticky on typical dominance behaviours for a reference - hopefully it may help humans understand guinea pigs and their behaviour a bit more and hopefully prevent some avoidable problems!


1 List of dominance behaviours...
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So I shouldn't separate them even if it looks like they're about to fight? They were teeth chattering extremely loud and circling one another, should i leave them be?
 
If you are certain they are about to fight and the circling is aggressive, heckles raised, hair on end - then yes you may well need to separate them. If that happens the bond has failed and they cannot live together.

The guides fully explain the behaviours which you do want to see and those which you do not want to see
 
Welcome to the forum. I am slave to Dignified Sir George and his unruly neighboar Mischievous Master Boris. There are several of us who have boars that are bar buddies, it's not so bad.
In my case, it's nice to see Sir George much more relaxed now he's not being challenged several times a day.
 
fluffysal said:
Welcome to the forum. I am slave to Dignified Sir George and his unruly neighboar Mischievous Master Boris. There are several of us who have boars that are bar buddies, it's not so bad.
In my case, it's nice to see Sir George much more relaxed now he's not being challenged several times a day.
Click to expand...
well thats great to know they'll still be happy piggies even as bar buddies ☺️
 
FOOL said:
Alright thank you, i think they may have to live side by side sadly
Click to expand...

The fact they had had a fight previously, it wouldn’t surprise me to hear things aren’t working out this time. Usually once a fight has occurred once, we would jot recommend trying again as it isn’t likely the work out second time round.

Two of mine also had to be separated. They have lived side by side for coming on two years (although one of them is now bonded to one of my other bereaved boars).
 
They often chat through the bars, sometimes they even post food to each other. This is one of theirfavouriteplaces to hang out.IMG-20240811-WA0001.webp
 
FOOL said:
So I shouldn't separate them even if it looks like they're about to fight? They were teeth chattering extremely loud and circling one another, should i leave them be?
Click to expand...

No, in that case I would separate because if a fight breaks out it will escalate in seconds.

With more experience you can also take the body into account - how stiff or relaxed is it (the stiffer the tenser a piggy is), how confident or over-the-top masking (fear-aggressive) etc... Whether they are willing to just go up to the line but not cross it or whether one of them will cross it.

That is a kind of rather subconscious sense you develop the more bondings, successful or failed, that you develop with practice but that is very difficult to explain. Some people have the natural ability to feel these things while others need to have every little detail exactly written down, and if it is not in the script, it throws them - nevermind that we perceive many of the more subtle messages very differently individually.
 
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