Bonded piggies not getting along

[elherman0811]

Hello! I posted about this issue a few weeks ago but it has been persistent. please read this if you have the time
This whole ordeal started about 2 weeks ago. I have two piggies, peaches and daisy, who are about a year old and bonded. They have a cage that is 48" by 24" and space has never been an issue before.
About two weeks ago, I heard daisy making a sound that sounded similar to a squeal and peaches was rumble-strutting at her. Peaches was rumbling and moving side to side and would raise her chin if daisy got near her.
A few days after that, it's like they had switched positions. Daisy was now the one in "control" and bossing peaches around their enclosure. daisy was not strutting, but would rumble at peaches.
I researched a few different things and discovered they might be bored. They did already have toys but I purchased stacking cups and a wooden puzzle for enrichment. they seem to do fine together until the treats are gone. I took them to the vet because they needed a nail trim anyway, and the vet told me they could be in heat. while that does sound possible, I'm just very paranoid as my previous piggy bit my other piggy in the eye. Neither of these pigs are the ones I just mentioned.
Starting last night, peaches would put her nose in Daisy's bum and mount her. I know this is typical dominance behaviour, but it's become frequent and daisy starts to yip and squeal. this would make daisy almost nip at peaches and peaches would chatter her teeth. I separated them with a cage divider (they each have the necessities on each side of the cage) and I left them like that for the night. They are still going at it today, with peaches being the instigator. Please help me if you know anything about this, as it is becoming stressful

 

[Piggies&buns]

What you are describing are all normal dominance behaviours. You say it started two weeks again and then switched with the other doing it a couple of days later, and then started again last night. To me it sounds like they are coming into season around the same time and it is producing the additional dominance: They are in season around every two weeks, so very frequently.

Dominance is not about being bored and commercial toys don’t tend to interest piggies. They like mental stimulation - encouraging foraging by hiding veg in hay piles (ie don’t use food bowls at all), scattering veg around their cage so they have to search. Boxes with doors cut in and stuffed with hay.

Squealing is submission. Nipping is a gesture of power. Chattering can be a sign of annoyance.

If it is just dominance due to being in season then separating isn’t the right thing to do and certainly not something you want to do frequently. A strong season can really produce quite an effect but leaving them to ride it out is best.

Their cage is also too small to be divided - again I appreciate that unless you had another cage then you felt it was best.

Their cage is minimum size and while it is ok, ultimately it may be too small. We recommended 60x24 inches for two sows.

Also once separated, you have to reunite them properly. You have to put them on neutral territory to meet again, you can’t just remove the divider and allow them to wander back into what would have started to become each others half of the territory.

I’m going to add in guides below which will help you assess the situation and explain it all a bit further

Thread 'Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including mounting and ovarian cysts)'

Feb 26, 2019

1 Sexing on arrival
2 Important reproductive Facts
- Start of making babies - seasons - lack of menopause
- Pregnancy
3 Sows in season
- How a season runs
- Strong seasons (snap seasons; the social role of strong seasons; problem seasons)
4 Behaviour and social aspects
- Bonding (Possible combos; acceptance and dating; special bonding aspects)
-...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Behaviour, Bonds and Species Understanding

• 

Thread 'Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs'

Feb 3, 2009

1 List of dominance behaviours in ascending order of aggression
2 What may cause this type of behaviour in boars?
3 When do you see these behaviours in sows?
4 What can trigger fall-outs?
5 Further helpful guide links


I thought it may be handy to have a sticky on typical dominance behaviours for a reference - hopefully it may help humans understand guinea pigs and their behaviour a bit more and hopefully prevent some avoidable problems!


1 List of dominance behaviours...

• boureki
• Replies: 100
• Forum: Behaviour, Bonds and Species Understanding

• 

Thread 'When Sows Experience A Strong Season (videos)'

Feb 9, 2018

Strong Seasons


Strong pheromone output by both new boars or other sows in season can sometimes trigger several sows close enough in their oestrus cycle to spontaneously come into season, too, which results in some very lively times!

During the initial stage, sows coming into season tend to mainly chase and mount other sows just below her in the hierarchy (or lacking that, the sow just above in the rankins or a submissive or gentle husboar). They will only mate at the end of the season.

Here you can see Briallen chasing mainly her next lower ranked undersow...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Behaviours

• 

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

Oct 30, 2017

1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its own...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Bonding & Fall-outs

• 

 

[piggieminder]

Thread 'Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs'

Mar 11, 2019

1 Company and interaction
- Company of their own kind is the best enrichment
- Human interaction
2 Excercise
- Daily run time and exercise
- Race and obstacle courses
- Outdoors time and how to bring it indoors
3 Sensory enrichment
- Things for the nose and the palate
- Working to get their daily food
- Romping and burrowing in soft...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Housing, Enrichment, Travel and Climate

• 
• 

I've linked the guide for enrichment ideas.
I hope your girls settle soon.

 

[elherman0811]

What you are describing are all normal dominance behaviours. You say it started two weeks again and then switched with the other doing it a couple of days later, and then started again last night. To me it sounds like they are coming into season around the same time and it is producing the additional dominance: They are in season around every two weeks, so very frequently.

Dominance is not about being bored and commercial toys don’t tend to interest piggies. They like mental stimulation - encouraging foraging by hiding veg in hay piles (ie don’t use food bowls at all), scattering veg around their cage so they have to search. Boxes with doors cut in and stuffed with hay.

Squealing is submission. Nipping is a gesture of power. Chattering can be a sign of annoyance.

If it is just dominance due to being in season then separating isn’t the right thing to do and certainly not something you want to do frequently. A strong season can really produce quite an effect but leaving them to ride it out is best.

Their cage is also too small to be divided - again I appreciate that unless you had another cage then you felt it was best.

Their cage is minimum size and while it is ok, ultimately it may be too small. We recommended 60x24 inches for two sows.

Also once separated, you have to reunite them properly. You have to put them on neutral territory to meet again, you can’t just remove the divider and allow them to wander back into what would have started to become each others half of the territory.

I’m going to add in guides below which will help you assess the situation and explain it all a bit further

Thread 'Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including mounting and ovarian cysts)'

Feb 26, 2019

1 Sexing on arrival
2 Important reproductive Facts
- Start of making babies - seasons - lack of menopause
- Pregnancy
3 Sows in season
- How a season runs
- Strong seasons (snap seasons; the social role of strong seasons; problem seasons)
4 Behaviour and social aspects
- Bonding (Possible combos; acceptance and dating; special bonding aspects)
-...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Behaviour, Bonds and Species Understanding

• 

Thread 'Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs'

Feb 3, 2009

1 List of dominance behaviours in ascending order of aggression
2 What may cause this type of behaviour in boars?
3 When do you see these behaviours in sows?
4 What can trigger fall-outs?
5 Further helpful guide links


I thought it may be handy to have a sticky on typical dominance behaviours for a reference - hopefully it may help humans understand guinea pigs and their behaviour a bit more and hopefully prevent some avoidable problems!


1 List of dominance behaviours...

• boureki
• Replies: 100
• Forum: Behaviour, Bonds and Species Understanding

• 

Thread 'When Sows Experience A Strong Season (videos)'

Feb 9, 2018

Strong Seasons


Strong pheromone output by both new boars or other sows in season can sometimes trigger several sows close enough in their oestrus cycle to spontaneously come into season, too, which results in some very lively times!

During the initial stage, sows coming into season tend to mainly chase and mount other sows just below her in the hierarchy (or lacking that, the sow just above in the rankins or a submissive or gentle husboar). They will only mate at the end of the season.

Here you can see Briallen chasing mainly her next lower ranked undersow...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Behaviours

• 

Thread 'Bonds In Trouble'

Oct 30, 2017

1 Causes for bonds to fall apart
2 Bonds in Crisis
- What are the signs of a dysfunctional bond?
- Bullying
- How can I test whether a bond is no longer working?
3 Failed bonds and what next?
- What to do if my piggies have had a major fight?
- When rebonding doesn't work out


1 Causes for bonds to fall apart

Every fall-out has of course its own...

• Wiebke
• Replies: 1
• Forum: Bonding & Fall-outs

• 

Thank you so much, I never want to seem like an irresponsible owner, I truly do want the best for them. I will look into a bigger space and not divide them up. Do you have cages that you personally recommend if possible?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thank you so much, I never want to seem like an irresponsible owner, I truly do want the best for them. I will look into a bigger space and not divide them up. Do you have cages that you personally recommend if possible?

You sound like you’re a great owner.
If this is just season related dominance then there isn’t a need for any separations.

If there bond was to be failing then the situation would be different and I have added in the bonds in trouble guide above so you can see the differences you would be looking out for to determine failed bonds.

C&c cages are good because they can be versatile.
However as they don’t have lids (although you can make a lid for it using additional grids), they aren’t suitable if you have dogs or cats.

For two sows you need a 2x4 c&c cage. C&c’s are spoken of in grids - so a 2x4 means two grids by four grids. Their measurements come to around 150x70cm (or 60x28 inches).

This is a guide to c&c cages

Thread 'Member Gallery: C&C cages/homemade cages'

Aug 13, 2010

C&C and homemade member cages


Please use this thread to post pictures of your C&C cages or other similar home-made housing. Try to include some information with the photo like:

Cage Type
Where it was purchased or how it was made
What size it is
How many piggies are kept in it
How easy it is to keep clean/if you'd recommend it

Bear in mind that new members will look to this thread as an example of good piggy keeping so photos of accommodation that is inadequately sized, dirty or overcrowded may be removed at the discretion of admin.

This thread is NOT for...

• daftscotslass
• Replies: 520
• Forum: Housing, Enrichment, Travel and Climate

• 

 

[fluffysal]

Most commercial cages are too small. The majority of us use C&C grid systems that can be bought on amazon. There are specialist sites that supply the whole unit including correx/coroplast bases but these work out much more expensive. I'm aware that that this is the UK site but it's an example of what you are looking for. I'm not tech savvy enogh to link but I just looked at a 24 grid set for $28.99. Ideally you want 13X13 inch panels, these can be put together how you want, we recommend just one level. Looking on you tube is also very instructive about grid systems.