Bond starting to fail?

[Aaaaa7]

I have a 5 year old and a 7 month old pig. I just introduced the baby about a month ago. The older one (possibly both) is sick. I took them to the vet today in the same carrier as I read to keep them together for comfort. It was about two hours in total of travel time. The little one spent a lot of time with running around in the carrier, which annoyed the older one. But they also cuddled by one another, too. They were mostly quiet but sounded annoyed at times, which I assumed was the travel.

Now that they are home, they are having a lot of dominance fighting going on. Not like dangerous fighting, but kicking, mounting, chasing, rumbling. It seems like the baby is trying to take dominance over the sick, older pig. His sickness was caught early and currently isn’t severe.

They do have bouts of still laying near each other, but the baby keeps starting up again with the older pig. Outside of being concerned that my older pig might not get the calm and rest he needs, I’m also worried their bond is starting to fail. I’m assuming it was a bad idea to have them together in the carrier after all….

They acted this way when they first bonded, but haven’t for weeks. They have 2 of everything and several hideys with two doors and a cage large enough for three pigs. Before this, when I’d be cuddling one, after a time they would start to call for one another and often lay by each other and share food.

Should I be concerned about this or is this a temporary thing?

 

[Wiebke]

I have a 5 year old and a 7 month old pig. I just introduced the baby about a month ago. The older one (possibly both) is sick. I took them to the vet today in the same carrier as I read to keep them together for comfort. It was about two hours in total of travel time. The little one spent a lot of time with running around in the carrier, which annoyed the older one. But they also cuddled by one another, too. They were mostly quiet but sounded annoyed at times, which I assumed was the travel.

Now that they are home, they are having a lot of dominance fighting going on. Not like dangerous fighting, but kicking, mounting, chasing, rumbling. It seems like the baby is trying to take dominance over the sick, older pig. His sickness was caught early and currently isn’t severe.

They do have bouts of still laying near each other, but the baby keeps starting up again with the older pig. Outside of being concerned that my older pig might not get the calm and rest he needs, I’m also worried their bond is starting to fail. I’m assuming it was a bad idea to have them together in the carrier after all….

They acted this way when they first bonded, but haven’t for weeks. They have 2 of everything and several hideys with two doors and a cage large enough for three pigs. Before this, when I’d be cuddling one, after a time they would start to call for one another and often lay by each other and share food.

Should I be concerned about this or is this a temporary thing?

Hi

Can you please remind us whether you have boars or sows?

For Boars: Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

For adult boars, sows and groups: Bonds In Trouble

 

[Aaaaa7]

Hi

Can you please remind us whether you have boars or sows?

For Boars: Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

For adult boars, sows and groups: Bonds In Trouble

I have boars and I read the teenage one. It still wasn’t clear to me if this is a fall out or a re-establishing of dominance. I’ll check the bonds in trouble. But they are still fighting. I got a video of it. Then directly after it looked like the little one was licking the butt/testicles of the older one but the older one didn’t seem to mind. Then they started again. It did look like the older one might have nipped at the younger one and the younger one chattered his teeth but now they are simply back to the same as before. Yelling, mounting, kicking, but sometimes briefly settling near each other. The younger one is definitely the instigator though.

I tried to attach the video but it says it’s too large

 

[Aaaaa7]

I have boars and I read the teenage one. It still wasn’t clear to me if this is a fall out or a re-establishing of dominance. I’ll check the bonds in trouble. But they are still fighting. I got a video of it. Then directly after it looked like the little one was licking the butt/testicles of the older one but the older one didn’t seem to mind. Then they started again. It did look like the older one might have nipped at the younger one and the younger one chattered his teeth but now they are simply back to the same as before. Yelling, mounting, kicking, but sometimes briefly settling near each other. The younger one is definitely the instigator though.

I tried to attach the video but it says it’s too large

Now they are quietly settled by each other again I don’t know what to do. If I should separate them or wait it out…

 

[Wiebke]

Now they are quietly settled by each other again I don’t know what to do. If I should separate them or wait it out…

Hi

Would it be possible for you to upload the video on a public setting on a platform that doesn't require a membership sign-in and then copying it across into your next post. That will allow our boar savvy members to get a better feel for it as to whether things are still within limits and your boars are careful to just go up to the line or whether a temporary separation would be better. Unfortunately, since our no-profit forum is run entirely by voluntary member donations we don't have a video upload. Thank you.

 

[Aaaaa7]

Hi

Would it be possible for you to upload the video on a public setting on a platform that doesn't require a membership sign-in and then copying it across into your next post. That will allow our boar savvy members to get a better feel for it as to whether things are still within limits and your boars are careful to just go up to the line or whether a temporary separation would be better. Unfortunately, since our no-profit forum is run entirely by voluntary member donations we don't have a video upload.

I don’t know how to do all of that…

 

[Piggies&buns]

My guess is that the change of environment, the journey and then being back in the cage has sent them in a dominance spree.
Going from what you have said, I would not separate at this point but I would monitor them. If it becomes so relentless and you can see the older one is becoming stressed then I would do several days separated and then a neutral territory reintroduction after those few days. If you separate them they are going to go straight back to dominance behaviours when you reunite so if it is just dominance now then I would leave them to get through it and sort themselves out.
And to add, I absolutely would have taken them together in the same carrier.

 

[Aaaaa7]

I don’t know how to do all of that…

Hi

Would it be possible for you to upload the video on a public setting on a platform that doesn't require a membership sign-in and then copying it across into your next post. That will allow our boar savvy members to get a better feel for it as to whether things are still within limits and your boars are careful to just go up to the line or whether a temporary separation would be better. Unfortunately, since our no-profit forum is run entirely by voluntary member donations we don't have a video upload. Thank you.

What it seems to me is that Coco the baby is trying to take dominance. Skunk was not the dominant one in the pair before Bear passed, but was when I paired him with Coco. And it seems like Skunk is fighting back, but also runs away and seems to possibly be losing, too. They are settled and sleeping in their hideys right next to one another now, so I’m going to assume they are ok and leave them alone while I’m sleeping tonight, unless something new happens or you recommend otherwise?

 

[Aaaaa7]

My guess is that the change of environment, the journey and then being back in the cage has sent them in a dominance spree.
Going from what you have said, I would not separate at this point but I would monitor them. If it becomes so relentless and you can see the older one is becoming stressed then I would do several days separated and then a neutral territory reintroduction after those few days. If you separate them they are going to go straight back to dominance behaviours when you reunite so if it is just dominance now then I would leave them to get through it and sort themselves out.
And to add, I absolutely would have taken them together in the same carrier.

My guess is that the change of environment, the journey and then being back in the cage has sent them in a dominance spree.
Going from what you have said, I would not separate at this point but I would monitor them. If it becomes so relentless and you can see the older one is becoming stressed then I would do several days separated and then a neutral territory reintroduction after those few days. If you separate them they are going to go straight back to dominance behaviours when you reunite so if it is just dominance now then I would leave them to get through it and sort themselves out.
And to add, I absolutely would have taken them together in the same carrier.

Thank you. We had posted the last comments at about the same time, but I had said that’s basically what I’m thinking, too. That coco is trying to take over, and honestly may be succeeding. Because they keep pausing and resting and sleeping near one another, I feel like at this point it’s not a lost cause yet. I’m glad to hear I didn’t mess up with the carrier. I keep blaming myself for everything which isn’t helpful, but I guess I just feel lost right now because the one got sick and passed and now the other old one is sick and now they are fighting to top it off just want some calm again in the Guinea pig world lol

 

[weepweeps]

I hope they settle down again soon.

 

[Aaaaa7]

I hope they settle down again soon.

Still lots of rumbling but mostly calm now. Less chasing and fighting and lots more sleeping and eating together thankfully

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m glad to hear they are calming down.
I would ensure you don’t clean the whole cage in one go as you don’t want to entirely wipe scent out of the cage - so clean half one day and the other half the next. Or wipe fresh bedding with soiled bedding to transfer scent.

It’s also so important that you don’t view dominance as fighting. Dominance is normal and how they function; fighting is full on rolling around and is immediately bond breaking.

 

[Aaaaa7]

I’m glad to hear they are calming down.
I would ensure you don’t clean the whole cage in one go as you don’t want to entirely wipe scent out of the cage - so clean half one day and the other half the next. Or wipe fresh bedding with soiled bedding to transfer scent.

It’s also so important that you don’t view dominance as fighting. Dominance is normal and how they function; fighting is full on rolling around and is immediately bond breaking.

That is true and makes it less stressful to think of it that way. I’m changing their bedding tomorrow but I’ll break it into two days. I was thinking that the carrier may have only had the babies scent, too. I had bear, the pig who passed away, in it before. But looking back, I don’t think skunk was in it until last night. So I wonder if that set off the issues too because I basically put them both into coco’s territory. Hard to say, but just hoping the bond doesn’t break as I’d have to rehome coco and start again.

 

[Aaaaa7]

It was difficult to get a photo but does this look like skunk took bites out of coco’s ear? He doesn’t react in pain when I touch it that I can tell, and I’m not positive, but I don’t think it looked like this yesterday.

If it is, what does that mean? I have not seen him actively get bitten or heard any sounds that would indicate there was biting, although that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen either

 

[Aaaaa7]

It was difficult to get a photo but does this look like skunk took bites out of coco’s ear? He doesn’t react in pain when I touch it that I can tell, and I’m not positive, but I don’t think it looked like this yesterday.

If it is, what does that mean? I have not seen him actively get bitten or heard any sounds that would indicate there was biting, although that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen either

I’m not noticing any other visible marks on his body outside of the potential ear bites

 

[Piggies&buns]

I wouldn’t worry about the marks on his ears particularly of they are now ok together.
If you were finding actual bite wounds and teeth marks then that is different but ears can get nicked through entirely benign actions

 

[Aaaaa7]

I wouldn’t worry about the marks on his ears particularly of they are now ok together.
If you were finding actual bite wounds and teeth marks then that is different but ears can get nicked through entirely benign actions

Ok that’s a relief ty!

 

[weepweeps]

Still lots of rumbling but mostly calm now. Less chasing and fighting and lots more sleeping and eating together thankfully

I’m glad they have settled a bit. I always get a bit nervous when my two boars get a bit rumbly with each other. It happened recently. I think that was just spring fever though.

 

[weepweeps]

When I clean my boys out I always rub the old smelly bobble mats onto the clean bobble mats. That seems to work for my two.

 

[Aaaaa7]

I’ll give this a try. Yes, and the vet mentioned to watch for it and then they started struggling again so it had me very concerned I’d messed up and their bond was broken now. I should have gotten a female instead, but by the time I realized they wouldn’t take the little guy back and I figured it would be harder on him to rehome him all over again rather than just see how things went

 

[weepweeps]

There’s no guarantee that a sow would have been any better. Boars are fab. I’ve never had a sow. So I’m biased

 

[Aaaaa7]

There’s no guarantee that a sow would have been any better. Boars are fab. I’ve never had a sow. So I’m biased

lol never had one either. My goal was to have two babies so when skunk died I could rehome them together. At least I could have had two sows. Now I’m gonna be stuck deciding to keep coco or have him lose both his cage mate and his owner at the same time. It’s gonna be tough when the time comes