Bond failing?

morumotto

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Hey! I'm concerned that the bond between my piggies is failing. I would love to know if this is the case, or if I'm potentially overreacting.

A week and a half ago, my piggie Neo (F) was diagnosed with a UTI. She was prescribed enrofloxacin to deal with the UTI. Unfortunately, she went into GI stasis and had to be hospitalized. Eventually she finished her antibiotic and was pulled out of stasis and she was able to return home to me Monday. She was still struggling overall, so I set up a recovery cage next to the big cage so she could still interact with her friends while she got better.

Over the course of the next few days, there were some ups and downs, but eventually her poops were getting better and she was eating on her own. Yesterday, she eventually stopped eating and would spend a lot of time laying next to the connecting wall to the big cage and chewing on the bars to get through. To me it seemed that she was getting depressed and wanted to be back with friends. I figured that even though she wasn't 100% yet, she was well enough that maybe being back with her friends would do her some good. I did floor time with the three of them and it went perfectly. Neo immediately perked up, chirping and eating with her friends. I took that as a good sign and started cleaning their big cage while they spent time getting reacquainted.

As soon as they got into the big cage together again, things went south. Her friends (Oreo (F) and Lu (neutered M)) immediately started chasing her around. Oreo, in particular, has been the main instigator. She'll chase Neo out of hidies and away from anything she may be chewing on. I've seen Oreo lunge at Neo's face multiple times, causing Neo to scream and run away. Lu will also do this to a lesser degree. A few times I've even seen Oreo and Lu box Neo into a corner together. I've never seen them act this way towards each other; Oreo and Neo were actually bonded together when I first adopted them.

I'm so worried now that I made a huge mistake by putting them back together. I'm worried that Oreo and Lu have rejected Neo. So far I have not witnessed any rumble-strutting or teeth-chattering directed at, or coming from, Neo. It's mostly been one-sided chasing and lunging. I have seen that several times after Neo has been pushed to her limit, Oreo or Lu will lay down next to her... though I don't know if this is affectionate or some subtle form of dominance display. I am considering the possibility that Oreo may be in heat right now (I saw Oreo's attempt to mount Lu prior to putting Neo in the cage with them) and that's the source of aggression at the moment and will hopefully die down soon.

Even right now as I type this, Neo is currently hiding away under a small fleece blanket and Lu is laying next to her. Maybe every 15 minutes or so Lu will stick his face into the fleece blanket (not sure if it's quite a lunge or not) and Neo will scream. But then he'll go back to just laying next to her.

Is anyone able to offer any insight into this? Does this seem like they're rejecting her? Was it a big mistake to move her back in with them before she was 100%? I'm so worried now that their bond is failing because of this whole situation. This would be a worst-case scenario for me, as I don't have enough room to house Neo in a separate cage long-term and cannot afford a fourth guinea pig to be her friend. Thank you so much for reading.
 
Hi, chasing and lunging is dominance behaviour. It sounds like Oreo and Lu are putting Nero in her place and that Nero is submitting.

It is true that bonds can fail after a separation but I wouldn’t be concerned just yet. Is Nero able to eat and rest without interruption from Oreo and Lu?

You may find the following threads helpful to see if the bond is failing and what’s normal

Bonds In Trouble

Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
 
Hi, chasing and lunging is dominance behaviour. It sounds like Oreo and Lu are putting Nero in her place and that Nero is submitting.

It is true that bonds can fail after a separation but I wouldn’t be concerned just yet. Is Nero able to eat and rest without interruption from Oreo and Lu?

You may find the following threads helpful to see if the bond is failing and what’s normal

Bonds In Trouble

Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)

It's hard to tell, because Neo has a naturally nervous / skittish disposition. She was never one to sit out and eat for long stretches of time like the other two. This morning I have seen her eating some pellets and getting some hay, and getting long drinks of water. Some of those times the other two were near her and didn't immediately bother her. Right now, however, she is hiding away. Over the course of last night I was only woken up by squealing twice, both times near the morning. I'm assuming that means she was able to get some rest overnight, but I don't know for sure. But then there are moments like about half an hour ago where Neo was resting and Lu kept poking his head at her every 15ish minutes to bother her.

And in the middle of typing this, Neo was hiding in the corner and Oreo just walked straight towards her to bother her. Neo squealed and back up very hard, and Oreo walked away.

Thank you for the links! I did already read through them, which is helping me from going into full-panic mode haha. I do know that Oreo does have an ovarian cyst - that was diagnosed the same day Neo was diagnosed for a UTI - and she's already received one hormone therapy shot for it. I figured since this was already present before this behavior started that it might not be quite related.
 
It's hard to tell, because Neo has a naturally nervous / skittish disposition. She was never one to sit out and eat for long stretches of time like the other two. This morning I have seen her eating some pellets and getting some hay, and getting long drinks of water. Some of those times the other two were near her and didn't immediately bother her. Right now, however, she is hiding away. Over the course of last night I was only woken up by squealing twice, both times near the morning. I'm assuming that means she was able to get some rest overnight, but I don't know for sure. But then there are moments like about half an hour ago where Neo was resting and Lu kept poking his head at her every 15ish minutes to bother her.

And in the middle of typing this, Neo was hiding in the corner and Oreo just walked straight towards her to bother her. Neo squealed and back up very hard, and Oreo walked away.

Thank you for the links! I did already read through them, which is helping me from going into full-panic mode haha. I do know that Oreo does have an ovarian cyst - that was diagnosed the same day Neo was diagnosed for a UTI - and she's already received one hormone therapy shot for it. I figured since this was already present before this behavior started that it might not be quite related.

Hi

It sounds like Oreo is just throwing her weight around. The screaming is submission screaming and the correct response.
A - Z of Guinea Pig Behaviours (for understanding specific behaviours and behaviour groups)

Guinea pigs always take about 2 weeks to establish/re-establish their relationship after a major chance in circumstances (bonding, separation, death in a group; territorial changes like a new cage or an extension). We call this the dominance phase.
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts) (see chapter 3)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
 
Hi

It sounds like Oreo is just throwing her weight around. The screaming is submission screaming and the correct response.
A - Z of Guinea Pig Behaviours (for dominance bahviours and to understand specific behaviours)

Guinea pigs always take about 2 weeks to establish/re-establish their relationship after a major chance in circumstances (bonding, separation, death in a group; territorial changes like a new cage or an extension). We call this the dominance phase.
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts) (see chapter 3)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

Thank you so much Wiebke! I really appreciate your input.

This actually isn't the first time they've been separated; at the end of last year Oreo had to be separated due to an eye injury. Lu kept licking the medication off her eye so she had to be quarantined for two weeks until she recovered. When I reintroduced Oreo it was so seamless, so it's very jarring to see Neo not be as easily welcomed back in.

But I'll take what you said to heart and not let my nerves get the best of me. Thank you so much!
 
Thank you so much Wiebke! I really appreciate your input.

This actually isn't the first time they've been separated; at the end of last year Oreo had to be separated due to an eye injury. Lu kept licking the medication off her eye so she had to be quarantined for two weeks until she recovered. When I reintroduced Oreo it was so seamless, so it's very jarring to see Neo not be as easily welcomed back in.

But I'll take what you said to heart and not let my nerves get the best of me. Thank you so much!

How old are Oreo and Neo now?

Oreo may still feel a little under the weather and is therefore responding stronger to ensuring her leadership role. It's after all just been a day or two.
 
How old are Oreo and Neo now?

Oreo may still feel a little under the weather and is therefore responding stronger to ensuring her leadership role. It's after all just been a day or two.

I don't know their exact age; I adopted them from a shelter and their previous owner didn't seem to do very good record-keeping. Our guess is that Oreo is 3.5 years old and Neo is 2.5 years old.

Under the weather from her cyst? Or last year's eye injury? Neo is the one that is on the tail-end of recovery from a UTI / stasis. I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding... but you're right, it has only been about a day so I'm sure I'm overreacting a bit.
 
I don't know their exact age; I adopted them from a shelter and their previous owner didn't seem to do very good record-keeping. Our guess is that Oreo is 3.5 years old and Neo is 2.5 years old.

Under the weather from her cyst? Or last year's eye injury? Neo is the one that is on the tail-end of recovery from a UTI / stasis. I'm sorry if I'm misunderstanding... but you're right, it has only been about a day so I'm sure I'm overreacting a bit.

Sorry, I am currently jumping between different threads a lot.

Oreo may be reacting to Neo still being under the weather but her cysts may be playing into it as well. It sounds like they are going through the full group re-establishment. You have to see how things go. If necessary, put in a divider and see how Neo reacts.

A medical separation can in some case lead to a permanent fall out if one of the sows decides that the other is no longer part of her group (even if it is just a group of one piggy - herself - and the other is her litter sister).

More information and practical tips in this link here: Bonds In Trouble
 
Sorry, I am currently jumping between different threads a lot.

Oreo may be reacting to Neo still being under the weather but her cysts may be playing into it as well. It sounds like they are going through the full group re-establishment. You have to see how things go. If necessary, put in a divider and see how Neo reacts.

A medical separation can in some case lead to a permanent fall out if one of the sows decides that the other is no longer part of her group (even if it is just a group of one piggy - herself - and the other is her litter sister).

More information and practical tips in this link here: Bonds In Trouble

No worries! I understand.

When Neo had been separated for medical recovery, she had been the one laying by the divider and chewing at the bars to get through. Oreo and Lu would often come visit her and would occasionally try to chew through as well. Do you think it might be different now that they've spent some time together?

A permanent fallout is definitely what I'm fearing, as I won't be able to keep Neo if she's not accepted back into the group (lack of space for a second cage and lack of funds to find and care for a new friend). Thank you for linking all those articles, I have read through them all before posting and it's definitely what is keeping me from full-blown panic about the situation.
 
No worries! I understand.

When Neo had been separated for medical recovery, she had been the one laying by the divider and chewing at the bars to get through. Oreo and Lu would often come visit her and would occasionally try to chew through as well. Do you think it might be different now that they've spent some time together?

A permanent fallout is definitely what I'm fearing, as I won't be able to keep Neo if she's not accepted back into the group (lack of space for a second cage and lack of funds to find and care for a new friend). Thank you for linking all those articles, I have read through them all before posting and it's definitely what is keeping me from full-blown panic about the situation.

Just give a few more days but keep monitoring Neo and put hay and water close to where she is holing up.
 
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