Boisterous Piggy Based Pain

[piggl]

Hi, I have been to the vet with my 5 year old pig and she does not believe he has any major issues with arthritis. She felt a bit of hardness in one of his knees so she has prescribed Metacam for a week, once a day.

The issue is I bought a younger friend for him, a baby from pets at home, after he lost his old friend and after a month or two of looking for a rescue friend he started to lose weight and become lonely. They get on well and rely on being near each other, even when they're arguing, but baby Reggie (4 months) will not stop mounting/humping my poor old Winston. He just sits there and takes it while he gets on with his day but the vet would not be surprised if all that strain on his back (from the mounting) is what is causing this issue.

I can not really do much about this. She suggested using more hides etc. to give Winston a place to retreat to but he already has plenty, he just doesn't use them. They will do normal dominance and rumble strutting, with Reggie leading the way, but after a certain point Winston just sits there. He is not and never has been interested in most dominance/humping, even with his last friend.

The other thing she suggested was castration, but I have read on here that this does nothing for male pigs, relationship/dominance wise. Does it work like human men, where the prostate gland which produces testosterone is located in the testicles?

My boys live in a hutch where separating their cage where they can still interact but not touch is near impossible with their current set-up, let alone the fact they are closely bonded and get all antsy the second they aren't near each other, especially young Reggie.
I do still wish I could have held on and got an older pig for Winston, he is and always so laid back and he deserved to live his retirement in peace, but because of his weight loss and dullness I didn't think there was much else I could do.

Any suggestions or ideas? Honestly part of me wishes it was just arthritis, so it could be helped with medication, but you can't medicate a working boar relationship.

P.S - This is a repost of what i wrote in my old thread yesterday, Mean, old pig, as it wasn’t getting any replies. I apologise if this isn’t allowed and also please move this thread accordingly as I couldn’t decide wether to post here or in the behaviour section. Thanks!

 

[Piggies&buns]

On one hand Reggie is a teenager, his behaviour is going to happen. On the bright side is that he will eventually calm down - right now his hormones are rising. On the other you don’t want Winston being sore in the meantime.
I really don’t know what to suggest.
All you can do regarding the hides is give him the choice, which you clearly are doing.
Castrating Reggie won’t make any difference - it’ll only remove his ability to make babies, it won’t change his behaviour at all. (The only time it does change behaviour is if they are castrated before they are 3 weeks old, which is not something practised in this country - it is done in Germany and Switzerland - it stops them ever becoming fertile so they never need to be separated from sow siblings and their mother either).

 

[piggl]

On one hand Reggie is a teenager, his behaviour is going to happen. On the bright side is that he will eventually calm down - right now his hormones are rising. On the other you don’t want Winston being sore in the meantime.
I really don’t know what to suggest.
All you can do regarding the hides is give him the choice, which you clearly are doing.
Castrating Reggie won’t make any difference - it’ll only remove his ability to make babies, it won’t change his behaviour at all. (The only time it does change behaviour is if they are castrated before they are 3 weeks old, which is not something practised in this country - it is done in Germany and Switzerland - it stops them ever becoming fertile so they never need to be separated from sow siblings and their mother either).

Thanks for your reply.

I feel like i’m stuck between a rock and a hard place. Part of me wants to put him on medication for the rest of his life and just leave them as they are but surely doing so would be like running around in circles. But there’s no way I can stop a perfectly normal dominance response without complete separation.

 

[AidaB]

I understand your dilemma.

I wanted to share what happened with our 2 which was slightly different & as they hadn’t been together long, an easier decision to make.
Hamish already had a bad pelvis/back and was already on Metacam for life.
Hamish(approx 3/4yrs)was introduced to another boar, at the guinea pig rescue, after losing his friend Hector . The rescue lady felt the boys were doing very well together. Unfortunately once home, Billy(approx 2yrs) was constantly humping Hamish. After about a week, we made the decision to split the boys up, we felt that Hamish couldn’t take anymore, his pain seemed to be worsening. The boys now live happily as neighbours.
After speaking with the vet, and Hamish having an X-ray, it was decided that it would be best for Hamish to have his own space permanently, being humped by an other pig, was more likely to worsen his already sore pelvis.
Otherwise we would have tried to reintroduce the boys.

 

[piggl]

I understand your dilemma.

I wanted to share what happened with our 2 which was slightly different & as they hadn’t been together long, an easier decision to make.
Hamish already had a bad pelvis/back and was already on Metacam for life.
Hamish(approx 3/4yrs)was introduced to another boar, at the guinea pig rescue, after losing his friend Hector . The rescue lady felt the boys were doing very well together. Unfortunately once home, Billy(approx 2yrs) was constantly humping Hamish. After about a week, we made the decision to split the boys up, we felt that Hamish couldn’t take anymore, his pain seemed to be worsening. The boys now live happily as neighbours.
After speaking with the vet, and Hamish having an X-ray, it was decided that it would be best for Hamish to have his own space permanently, being humped by an other pig, was more likely to worsen his already sore pelvis.
Otherwise we would have tried to reintroduce the boys.

Thanks for your reply.

I’ve talked to my parents (i’m not a child, but i go to college and still live at their home so things need to be run by them) and it seems like they might allow me to purchase a new set up for them inside, in which they will be separated but still able to interact.

I really hope this goes through as I have thought of all possible avenues and this is the only one where we don’t spend hundreds on painkillers for a problem which can be solved.

Do you have any tips for making that change from being together to not? I worry that as Reggie is so much younger (4 months) and has “clinged” on to Winston since he was brought home as a baby, he may find this change difficult.

 

[Piggies&buns]

they will live happily side by side (I have a pair who fought and live as neighbours now). You will probably see Reggie be quite upset by the separation - pacing the bars, rumbling, bar chewing maybe but he will get used to it

 

[AidaB]

It took Billy and Hamish a while to settle into living as neighbours.
In the beginning we had a lot of bar chewing from Billy and he was constantly looking for Hamish. Hamish on the other hand couldn’t have cared less & seemed to taunt Billy through the bars- eating next to him- seemingly oblivious to the bar chewing going on right next to him.

We had to cover the divide with cardboard for a time, and gradually removed it for longer periods.

The boys both have places to go hidden away from the divide or in an enclosed hide. They are often found having a rumble off by the shared grids or munching away companionably together near the shared grids. Billy, is quite needy, and still likes to constantly look for Hamish. Hamish really doesn’t care what Billy’s up to most of the time.

Good luck, I hope you find the right solution for your situation.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for your reply.

I’ve talked to my parents (i’m not a child, but i go to college and still live at their home so things need to be run by them) and it seems like they might allow me to purchase a new set up for them inside, in which they will be separated but still able to interact.

I really hope this goes through as I have thought of all possible avenues and this is the only one where we don’t spend hundreds on painkillers for a problem which can be solved.

Do you have any tips for making that change from being together to not? I worry that as Reggie is so much younger (4 months) and has “clinged” on to Winston since he was brought home as a baby, he may find this change difficult.

Hi

At four months, your youngster has started teenage and is suffering a major hormone spike. As long as the bond is not broken, you could consider a removable divider (just some grids cable tied together that you wired to the cage on one end and fold against the edge, so you can pull it out quickly at any time for a 2-3 day separation whenever a spike hits and tie the grids to the other side of the cage. Make sure that each boy has his furniture, water and hay in his own half.

I did manage to get my freshly neutered teenage Nye (who went on to live with sows) and his middle aged, very skittish and easily overloaded boar companion Nosgan through Nye's teenage without breaking the bond so they had a couple of good years together until Nosgan's death.

If Winston visibly perks up without Reggie and and folds again during the next reintro, then the bond is no longer viable and they will do better as 'neighboars'.
Some helpful information on how to best navigate teenage in here: Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

 

[piggl]

Hi

At four months, your youngster has started teenage and is suffering a major hormone spike. As long as the bond is not broken, you could consider a removable divider (just some grids cable tied together that you wired to the cage on one end and fold against the edge, so you can pull it out quickly at any time for a 2-3 day separation whenever a spike hits and tie the grids to the other side of the cage. Make sure that each boy has his furniture, water and hay in his own half.

I did manage to get my freshly neutered teenage Nye (who went on to live with sows) and his middle aged, very skittish and easily overloaded boar companion Nosgan through Nye's teenage without breaking the bond so they had a couple of good years together until Nosgan's death.

If Winston visibly perks up without Reggie and and folds again during the next reintro, then the bond is no longer viable and they will do better as 'neighboars'.
Some helpful information on how to best navigate teenage in here: Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Thanks for your reply.

The issue isn’t primarily the dominance/hormones, it’s the strain that Reggie’s humping is putting on Winstons already old knees/back. He humps Winston just about everytime they bump into each other, he’s actually the most energetic and excitable piggy i’ve ever had.
I think we’ve came to the conclusion to separate them indefinitely. I’ll be buying them a new set up indoors and I hope they will both be able to live happily next to each other.

A 3x3 for old Winston and a 3x3 with a 1x3 loft for little Reggie who lives climbing and jumping.

They both love each other very much but I cant/won’t have the weight of Reggie consistently weighting down on Winstons limbs, especially as Reggie is only 4 months and already 800g.

 

[joanneswift813]

Thank you for sharing, I'm going through a similar thing with Terrence (3 years old) and Patch (12 weeks old). No health issues on Terrence's part or incessant humping, but Patch just won't leave Terrence alone and all Terrence wants to do is chill out!

As there are no health isuses involved, we are sticking out the dominance phase (only introduced them a week ago), but I had questioned what would happen if we feel that Patch's energy is causing Terrence constant low level stress. Patch is also a super super energetic little piggie!

This has really helped me to see it from a different perspective! So thank you for sharing

 

[piggl]

Thank you for sharing, I'm going through a similar thing with Terrence (3 years old) and Patch (12 weeks old). No health issues on Terrence's part or incessant humping, but Patch just won't leave Terrence alone and all Terrence wants to do is chill out!

As there are no health isuses involved, we are sticking out the dominance phase (only introduced them a week ago), but I had questioned what would happen if we feel that Patch's energy is causing Terrence constant low level stress. Patch is also a super super energetic little piggie!

This has really helped me to see it from a different perspective! So thank you for sharing

It’s quite a predicament, sending you a virtual hug.

I’ve came to the decision to separate my boys, but that’s because of the issues with old Winstons knees/back.

Hopefully your boys calm down soon x