joanneswift813
New Born Pup
Hi all, just after some advice on my two boys. I did a search on the forum and read lots of great and relevant threads, along with the recommended behavioural posts already linked. But thought it would be good to explain the situation for if anyone has experienced something similar and might have some specific advice.
A bit of background... Terrence is around 3.5 years old and we have Patch who is around 5 months now. 2 months ago we sadly lost Desmond, hence we got Terrence another friend. The bond was successful (with huge help from you guys on here, thank you!), but was touch and go at times. Patch is top pig - which Terrence didn't initially want to accept, but after about a week Terrence did calm down and accept Patch as top pig (if a little reluctantly!).
On and off for the 2 months since the bond, we've definitely noticed Patch having hormone spikes. He's a little rascal at the best of times anyway but sometimes just goes mental! I'm aware he's approaching the 6 month mark of the worst hormone spikes as well.
When he's not on a hormone spike, they seem to get on fairly well. Patch asserts dominance but not constantly, Terrence accepts it sometimes and tells Patch to go away at other times when he's not in the mood, and Patch accepts that. When he's not on a hormone spike...
What's been happening the last 24 hours is that Patch is constantly trying to mount Terrence from the side and lick his ear at the same time (I realise that both of these are dominance behaviours). Terrence doesn't like being mounted, so squeeks softly and moves away. Patch goes after him, continually trying mount Terrence, and it builds until Terrence turns round and says I've had enough - through raising his head, showing his teeth, and occasionally lunging at Patch. It's never got to a fight and has never drawn any blood. At this point (Terrence standing up for himself), Patch either backs off, or pauses until Terrence drops his guard and then tries to continue. One of 2 things happen next - either Terrence gives up and runs away (sometimes Patch continues to follow, sometimes he doesn't), or Terrence stands up for himself and Patch backs off.
We have 2 of everything, hidies with 2 exits minimum, and we are weighing Terrence daily. He dropped about 50 grams from his usual (1.1kg) but in the last week as risen back up towards 1.1kg. His weight as ranged from 1.07kg to 1.1kg this week, the few weeks before it was more like 1.05kg - 1.07kg, and today it was randomly back down at 1.054kg.
Hopefully that's a clear explanation of what is going on
The bit that we are concerned about is that when on a hormone spike, Patch sometimes won't leave Terrence alone, and we are concerned he's bullying Terrence. Terrence seems a little down when this is happening (although still eating and drinking). After a day or so of Patch not being on a hormone spike, Terrence seems to perk up and be a little happier. Whilst I've described the situation above as happening in the last 24 hours, it happens regularly. Maybe once to twice a week. Varying in severity, I guess depending on the size of Patch's hormone spike. The only thing which makes me think it's not bullying as such but just the hormone spike is that there are times Patch will leave Terrence along. It's not happening 7 days a week. It comes and goes in waves.
Not sure if there is anything that can be done about this... when Desmond (piggies that passed 2 months ago) and Terrence were growing up, between 6 months (when we got them) and 12-14 months, they were regularly having rumble strut disagreements with the occassional teeth chatter, but not quite like this. They really settled down after the 14 month mark and become such wonderful and close companions. I think part of the issue as well is that Patch is a hyper teenager and Terrence is older now and quite a laid back piggie.
I'm wondering if maybe we should try to separate them temporarily whenever Patch is on a particularly bad hormone spike? Even if just for half an hour to an hour? I've heard of the odd person doing this successfully to get boys through teenage years but I'm not really sure what's best (never been in this situation before). I've read about the risks of reintroductions too. I'd be so sad if they couldn't be together long term (although, having said that, I realise that in piggie language it's different!).
One final thing - we have Terrence booked in for a scan on Wednesday. He has sludge (Desmond had bladder stones because of too much parsley - bad advice online but I know better now and I'm on this forum ) and I've seen the smallest amount of blood in the cage this week (I do mean tiny). I've checked both pigs and there is no wounds on either of them. The vet tried to scan him 2 months ago but Terrence wouldn't have any of it! So the vet said monitor him as he doesn't appear to be in pain and if we need to explore further he'll have to be gassed/sedated for a scan. That's what's happening on Wednesday. I can't decide whether to put Patch in to the vets with him. Desmond always went on his own when it was linked to the bladder issues. General checkups they were together. I'm thinking it might be best to send Patch in too, but I also wouldn't want Patch trying to assert his dominance in the "new territory" of a probably small vet pen!
Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, hopefully I've been clear and detailed enough.
PS... having said everything I've said above... this picture is currently where they are sitting
they would have you fooled that they are this comfortable in close proximity to each other all the time 
PPS I know the cage is messy, a deep clean is next on my list this evening!
A bit of background... Terrence is around 3.5 years old and we have Patch who is around 5 months now. 2 months ago we sadly lost Desmond, hence we got Terrence another friend. The bond was successful (with huge help from you guys on here, thank you!), but was touch and go at times. Patch is top pig - which Terrence didn't initially want to accept, but after about a week Terrence did calm down and accept Patch as top pig (if a little reluctantly!).
On and off for the 2 months since the bond, we've definitely noticed Patch having hormone spikes. He's a little rascal at the best of times anyway but sometimes just goes mental! I'm aware he's approaching the 6 month mark of the worst hormone spikes as well.
When he's not on a hormone spike, they seem to get on fairly well. Patch asserts dominance but not constantly, Terrence accepts it sometimes and tells Patch to go away at other times when he's not in the mood, and Patch accepts that. When he's not on a hormone spike...
What's been happening the last 24 hours is that Patch is constantly trying to mount Terrence from the side and lick his ear at the same time (I realise that both of these are dominance behaviours). Terrence doesn't like being mounted, so squeeks softly and moves away. Patch goes after him, continually trying mount Terrence, and it builds until Terrence turns round and says I've had enough - through raising his head, showing his teeth, and occasionally lunging at Patch. It's never got to a fight and has never drawn any blood. At this point (Terrence standing up for himself), Patch either backs off, or pauses until Terrence drops his guard and then tries to continue. One of 2 things happen next - either Terrence gives up and runs away (sometimes Patch continues to follow, sometimes he doesn't), or Terrence stands up for himself and Patch backs off.
We have 2 of everything, hidies with 2 exits minimum, and we are weighing Terrence daily. He dropped about 50 grams from his usual (1.1kg) but in the last week as risen back up towards 1.1kg. His weight as ranged from 1.07kg to 1.1kg this week, the few weeks before it was more like 1.05kg - 1.07kg, and today it was randomly back down at 1.054kg.
Hopefully that's a clear explanation of what is going on
The bit that we are concerned about is that when on a hormone spike, Patch sometimes won't leave Terrence alone, and we are concerned he's bullying Terrence. Terrence seems a little down when this is happening (although still eating and drinking). After a day or so of Patch not being on a hormone spike, Terrence seems to perk up and be a little happier. Whilst I've described the situation above as happening in the last 24 hours, it happens regularly. Maybe once to twice a week. Varying in severity, I guess depending on the size of Patch's hormone spike. The only thing which makes me think it's not bullying as such but just the hormone spike is that there are times Patch will leave Terrence along. It's not happening 7 days a week. It comes and goes in waves.
Not sure if there is anything that can be done about this... when Desmond (piggies that passed 2 months ago) and Terrence were growing up, between 6 months (when we got them) and 12-14 months, they were regularly having rumble strut disagreements with the occassional teeth chatter, but not quite like this. They really settled down after the 14 month mark and become such wonderful and close companions. I think part of the issue as well is that Patch is a hyper teenager and Terrence is older now and quite a laid back piggie.
I'm wondering if maybe we should try to separate them temporarily whenever Patch is on a particularly bad hormone spike? Even if just for half an hour to an hour? I've heard of the odd person doing this successfully to get boys through teenage years but I'm not really sure what's best (never been in this situation before). I've read about the risks of reintroductions too. I'd be so sad if they couldn't be together long term (although, having said that, I realise that in piggie language it's different!).
One final thing - we have Terrence booked in for a scan on Wednesday. He has sludge (Desmond had bladder stones because of too much parsley - bad advice online but I know better now and I'm on this forum
) and I've seen the smallest amount of blood in the cage this week (I do mean tiny). I've checked both pigs and there is no wounds on either of them. The vet tried to scan him 2 months ago but Terrence wouldn't have any of it! So the vet said monitor him as he doesn't appear to be in pain and if we need to explore further he'll have to be gassed/sedated for a scan. That's what's happening on Wednesday. I can't decide whether to put Patch in to the vets with him. Desmond always went on his own when it was linked to the bladder issues. General checkups they were together. I'm thinking it might be best to send Patch in too, but I also wouldn't want Patch trying to assert his dominance in the "new territory" of a probably small vet pen!Thanks in advance for any advice you can give, hopefully I've been clear and detailed enough.
PS... having said everything I've said above... this picture is currently where they are sitting
they would have you fooled that they are this comfortable in close proximity to each other all the time PPS I know the cage is messy, a deep clean is next on my list this evening!
