Boar trouble!

DougalandDiego

DougalandDiego

Teenage Guinea Pig
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Hi everyone (sorry in advance for the waffling!)

I hope everyone is keeping safe and healthy.
I have two boars that are a year or so old. They’ve been together their whole life as guinea pigs do, sometimes have little episodes where the briefly fall out - teeth chatter, chase each other, rumble strut etc. I have never seen one of them bite each other or draw blood or jump on the other or even hump each other for that matter.

They live indoors in a 2x5 grid cage and I thought I’d done a good job of setting the cage out how they liked it but they had one wooden house that I think started the fall out this time. When one would try to go in it they would both chatter, rumble and chase each other out. They really haven’t been happy this afternoon lots of submissive squealing, chasing and rumbling but I’ve put two of the same house in (they used to have one wooden house and one bridge) and laid their cage out so they have a house, water and food in each end (they had this anyway but just one house like I said) I tried to leave them to sort themselves out but the squealing carried on so hence changing the layout. I scattered veggies which they both ate which has calmed them down and seemed to break out the fight.
My question is - is their cage ok? Can anyone see any future problems? We’re planning to upgrade to atleast a 2x6 when we move out (in the next month or so) when our house is finished being built after lockdown is over! Do you think the stress of upgrading to a 2x6 is worth it for a month or so then moving them again? Or leave it as is?

Final question - when do you seperate? They never drew blood or turned into a furry tornado but sounded awful lots of squealing/crying and teeth chattering? Is that normal behaviour when they have a hormonal argument?

They get on well 99% of the time but every now and then have a right funny 5 minutes! They are now fast asleep in their own houses... boars are so stressful! Haha!

Also sorry the cage looks messy - they were cleaned out this morning but I’m going to wait to tidy until later tonight as I’m scared to cause an argument again!

Thanks in advance if anyone can offer and advice!
 

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The chasing, rumbling etc isn’t a fall out per se. It’s dominance - it looks like bad to us, but to them it’s normal. Again the squealing sounds bad but it is actually what you need to see happen - it is submission and as long as one is submitting, then there isn’t going to be a problem. Its only if one won’t back down that there could be trouble

Currently as you have described it, there are no grounds to separate. You only separate if they get into a full on fur flying blood drawing fight (or if outright bullying occurs - where one is humped and dominated constantly to the point they aren’t allowed to eat, sleep, they sometimes lose weight and are rather depressed by the whole situation).

Any change in environment can cause a change in territories which can set off dominance , so if they calm down now then I’d leave things as they are until you move and then just change their cage once you’ve moved out. When doing so, ensure you put back in used bedding so that it still smells of them, it can help calm the situation down.

The key with boars is having multiple items so they can’t fight over anything and when it comes to houses I make sure there is at least one per pig - my own two boars have about six houses, tunnels etc between them!
 
Piggies&buns said:
The chasing, rumbling etc isn’t a fall out per se. It’s dominance - it looks like bad to us, but to them it’s normal. Again the squealing sounds bad but it is actually what you need to happen - it is submission and as long as one is submitting, then there isn’t going to be a problem. Its only if one won’t back down that there could be trouble

Currently as you have described it, there are no grounds to separate. You only separate if they get into a full on fur flying blood drawing fight (or if outright bullying occurs - where one is humped and dominated constantly to the point they aren’t allowed to eat, sleep, they sometimes lose weight and are rather depressed by the whole situation).

Any change in environment can cause a change in territories which can set off dominance , so if they calm down now then I’d leave things as they are until you move and then just change their cage once you’ve moved out. When doing so, ensure you put back in used bedding so that it still smells of them, it can help calm the situation down.

The key with boars is having multiple items so they can’t fight over anything and when it comes to houses I make sure there is at least one per pig - my own two boars have about six houses, tunnels etc between them!
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Thank you for your reply and for putting my mind at ease. I find it such a hard balance between putting enough in the cage that they don’t fight but too much that one can get cornered by something. I must admit I’ve put their litter tray back in which I think the least dominant (although he’s always tumble strutting so I can never be too sure) is pleased with because he’s buried himself in the hay and is eating but squeals every time the more dominant one comes towards the tray.

One more question - I took the litter tray out as they were butting it out way to get all the way around it and the dominant one bashes it when the other pig is in it. Is that him being dominant trying to get him out or just trying to get all the way around the litter tray? The dominant one is more shy so never gets in the litter tray as he gets worried about getting stuck in it I think so I don’t think he wants to get in the tray!
 
DougalandDiego said:
Thank you for your reply and for putting my mind at ease. I find it such a hard balance between putting enough in the cage that they don’t fight but too much that one can get cornered by something. I must admit I’ve put their litter tray back in which I think the least dominant (although he’s always tumble strutting so I can never be too sure) is pleased with because he’s buried himself in the hay and is eating but squeals every time the more dominant one comes towards the tray.

One more question - I took the litter tray out as they were butting it out way to get all the way around it and the dominant one bashes it when the other pig is in it. Is that him being dominant trying to get him out or just trying to get all the way around the litter tray? The dominant one is more shy so never gets in the litter tray as he gets worried about getting stuck in it I think so I don’t think he wants to get in the tray!
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Could you offer two trays? We recommend having everything twice, especially for teenage boys. Please be careful when making major changes to the cage during one of the sudden hormone spikes which can on occasion last into adulthood.

You may find these guides here helpful:
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars (including do's and dont's)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
 
Mine move their tray, quite often I go to them in the morning to find it’s gone on a little wander! I don’t worry about it, it’s not dominance, it’s just furniture removal!
As mentioned though, have multiples of things, they can either use them or not! But it is best to have more than enough to stop it becoming a thing they argue over
 
I could but I’m unsure where I’d put it? I have returned their cage to how it was before the argument after reading information on the forum and it seems to have calmed them down a bit. After moving things back I don’t think it would fit in their cage and leave much floor space for them. This is how it is currently...
The extra litter tray we have is a similar size to the one they have now but slightly shallower.

thanjs for the suggestions and help I really appreciate it this is such a fantastic and supportive forum x
 

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please help a very stressed piggy mum!

I posted an earlier post about my boars falling out. They are still arguing and chasing and the more dominant is trying to bite the bottom of the more submissive pig. This is part of the behaviour we are seeing although it doesn’t show the chasing and attempted bottom biting. As soon as the submissive pig moves it starts all over again.
Are they ok being left? Do I try a boar bath? I don’t want to trial seperate unless absolutely necessary as I’m worried it will break their bond and cause even more stress.

 
The guide below explains the seriousness of behaviours (you may have already seen it), if you are seeing nipping, then it that is a more serious warning. I am definitely seeing a lot of dominance on this video though. Do they calm down at all or is it just relentless so the submissive isn’t being allowed to rest/eat?

Giving them a night separated to cool down if you feel things are getting too tense won’t damage their bond if their bond is ok, they will go right back together if they want to be together.

Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
 
We were very close to separating when I uploaded this video. Since then from 9:10 onwards they’ve both been ok - they’ve been sleeping and the submissive pig has been eating and hasn’t been bothered by the other sleeping pig. I was thinking of sleeping in their room with them and keeping an eye on them over night?
A few months ago they had a similar problem and we gave them a boar bath and they were fine but it may have just prolonged the dominance. I want to try and stick it out if possible but like you said if it continues then we may have to seperate with some grids for the night and see what happens. If we were to seperate with grids would we still need to take them out of the cage and re-introduce on neutral ground before taking the grids away? I'm hoping the dominant pig has finally calmed down - fingers crossed!

thanks for all of your help!
 
Definitely keep an eye on them but hopefully they will just sort things out themselves. I personally wouldn’t buddy bath them in any event.
a neutral territory reintroduction is probably safest

(I am seeing a huge increase in dominance between my own two year old boar pair. Spring time has driven one of them (popcorn) a bit crazy and I am seeing a lot of mounting (which he never does), chasing and extra rumbling from him (popcorn only ever rumbles, he doesn’t mount. it’s dexter who does the mounting but he never rumbles and those roles haven’t changed in two years....until now....) . Popcorn is being a bit of a pain and dexter is luckily, pretty much just humouring him. Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you aren’t alone in having a tricky time with a pair of boars at present!)
 
Also remember that if they’re under 14 months they’re still in the teenage months. There will be hormone spikes on and off - even into adulthood. It can look hideous and go on for a while, but should calm down and the dominant piggy stops. The first time I experienced it I was shocked and a little worried. The dominant was busy chasing, humping and mounting the other piggy. He’d chase for a few minutes then sit and rest for a minute. It went on for at least an hour, and I think it must have happened again (I was asleep) because I found dominant piggy with a small (Likely misplaced swipe) scratch near the eye.

That does look a little heated. Mainly because the submissive is also rumbling, though that’s kind of mild. Definitely have a read of the threads below. Also look at the one I link below. It’s not necessarily what they are experiencing but can help you decide what to do. Good luck and I hope they weather this storm.

Bonds In Trouble
 
Yeah I’ve since now read that a boar bath wasn’t such a good idea!
I’d never have known guinea pigs are such tricky animals! I’ve read lots about them since getting them last year but I feel like I always like the reassurance from you guys! I’m just such a softy and only want the best for them and worry if I separate too early I won’t have given them a fair chance and then they will be lonely and miserable! 😫
What cute names! I’m glad it’s not just my two then! Haha! Hopefully I won’t have to post anymore panicked videos tomorrow. (All still calm and quiet whilst the other pig sleeps so we will wait and see!)
 
Yes they were both resting on and off but as soon as one started to move it would start again! Luckily there are no scratches or blood so I’m hoping it was a teenage strop and nothing more... I’ve hardly moved since they calmed down incase I start them off again! 😂
 
Haha a few boar owners know the stress of watching them! You have my sympathy! 🤣
🤞🏾 they behave themselves.

Out of interest, how were they between 4-12 months?
 
Siikibam said:
Haha a few boar owners know the stress of watching them! You have my sympathy! 🤣
🤞🏾 they behave themselves.

Out of interest, how were they between 4-12 months?
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We only had one similar fall out and that was around Christmas time last year. We took Diego to the vets (found out he has a heart murmur) they both went as I know it can cause more arguments if you take one pig and then not the other but I think the stress of the ordeal caused them to fight? They rumble at each other like normal boars but normally we hardly hear any teeth chattering - only at the humans on the odd occasion!
Diego has woken up (dominant pig) and they’ve had a couple of chases as Dougal seems to keep going near him and rumbling - why could he be doing this? Is he fighting to be top pig? but no chattering or nipping and it doesn’t seem to be as heated so I’m hoping for the best. They go off to different areas of the cage and eat it just seems to be when they go near each other. I’m so stressed with what the right thing to do is!
 
I think if he wanted to be too pig you’d know about it. I doubt Diego would take kindly to being demoted. It’s good if they’re not as heated as before. Just keep an eye on them.
 
Watching the behaviour of your two looks very much like my boars. I have one who was picked on a bit by his brother, but would be left alone when he jumped in the hay tray.
At the age they are, you will see quite a lot of dominant behaviour, but as long as it doesn't result in a full on fight or constant bullying, I would ride the storm. Do they shout out to each other when you take one out of the cage? If they do, that can be a sign they want to be together.
Try not to worry about the dominance (unless it turns nasty) - they know what they are doing. I find these behaviours fascinating to watch.
Good luck, and I hope they calm down soon.
 
Siikibam said:
I think if he wanted to be too pig you’d know about it. I doubt Diego would take kindly to being demoted. It’s good if they’re not as heated as before. Just keep an eye on them.
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Yes I’m glad they’ve calmed down. I’ve been sleeping on and off throughout the night and waking up when I hear a bit of noise. Dougal the submissive pig is still doing a little bit of rumbling which is confusing me - I wonder if he’s doing it because he’s unsure what Diego is going to do but they’re both leaving each other alone now. Diego isn’t chasing Dougal anymore only if Dougal starts rumbling but even then Diego isn’t really going for Dougal and they’re both eating at separate hay stations in their cage. I'm hoping that it was just a brief hormonal spike and they’re ok now.
Could something like this break their bond or would they still be going for each other like they were yesterday if it was broken?
Thanks for all the fantastic advice!
 
Reenie said:
Watching the behaviour of your two looks very much like my boars. I have one who was picked on a bit by his brother, but would be left alone when he jumped in the hay tray.
At the age they are, you will see quite a lot of dominant behaviour, but as long as it doesn't result in a full on fight or constant bullying, I would ride the storm. Do they shout out to each other when you take one out of the cage? If they do, that can be a sign they want to be together.
Try not to worry about the dominance (unless it turns nasty) - they know what they are doing. I find these behaviours fascinating to watch.
Good luck, and I hope they calm down soon.
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Oh thank you that is a relief! Yeah I think Dougal gets a bit above his station then runs for cover when Diego reacts! 😂Yes they get on well most of the time apart from the very odd occasion! Hopefully they calm down a bit as they get older.

Yes as soon as you take one out of the cage they are looking round for the other one and talking to each other! Thanks for your advice and reassurance it’s much appreciated!
 
Also I’m sorry if this isn’t allowed but didn’t want to start a new thread again @Wiebke let me know if you want me to delete and repost - Diego has been diagnosed with a heart murmur apparently the vet thinks one of his heart valves didn’t close but the vet I saw (very experienced vet who I take my dog to) wasn’t keen to put him on a diuretic until absolutely necessary. Diego only has the odd occasion where he hoots and he coughs and it goes - a couple hours max (my vet thought it was probably when he’d been asleep for a long time and the fluid had built up in his chest) he had an episode where he was hooting for a longer period than usual (6 hours) on April 18th but was eating/drinking fine. I rang the vets and because of the current circumstances had an over the phone call the next day when the hooting had stopped. It wasn’t the vet I normally see as he is having to self isolate and he said that he didn’t want to start Diego on medication if it was only very rare that he had hooting episodes because of the other side effects it could have. He’s been a bit snuffly this morning. Is it worth having diuretic in and then just giving him a small amount when I hear him starting to hoot? The vet thought that might be the best way to go but said to keep an eye. They close at lunch time today so wonder if it’s best to ring and ask to collect some?
 
DougalandDiego said:
Also I’m sorry if this isn’t allowed but didn’t want to start a new thread again @Wiebke let me know if you want me to delete and repost - Diego has been diagnosed with a heart murmur apparently the vet thinks one of his heart valves didn’t close but the vet I saw (very experienced vet who I take my dog to) wasn’t keen to put him on a diuretic until absolutely necessary. Diego only has the odd occasion where he hoots and he coughs and it goes - a couple hours max (my vet thought it was probably when he’d been asleep for a long time and the fluid had built up in his chest) he had an episode where he was hooting for a longer period than usual (6 hours) on April 18th but was eating/drinking fine. I rang the vets and because of the current circumstances had an over the phone call the next day when the hooting had stopped. It wasn’t the vet I normally see as he is having to self isolate and he said that he didn’t want to start Diego on medication if it was only very rare that he had hooting episodes because of the other side effects it could have. He’s been a bit snuffly this morning. Is it worth having diuretic in and then just giving him a small amount when I hear him starting to hoot? The vet thought that might be the best way to go but said to keep an eye. They close at lunch time today so wonder if it’s best to ring and ask to collect some?
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I will start a new thread as looking on the forum you shouldn’t start a new topic on another thread I’ve tried to delete but unable to sorry!
 
I use a big litter tray at one side of my pairs cage and a corner litter tray at the other end to save space and still give them choices to be separate if they wish.
 
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