Blood in urine no stones/UTI

[Boarmom]

Hi all!

This is my first post here and I hope you guys are willing to give me some advice.

I have two Guinea Pigs (brothers) of two years old, Teddy and Bear. Teddy has been squeaking while peeing and pooping for almost a year now. We of course went to the vet multiple times and had X-rays done and ultrasounds, nothing showed up. We got some metacam and urocare. He is currently only on urocare.

Three weeks ago I noticed that there was blood on their bedding, I automatically assumed that it was coming from Teddy (due to his history), however, it was from his brother Bear. We immediately went to the Vet and they performed an ultrasound. His bladder was full with blood, no stones detected, and we were given Baytril, painkiller and metacam. After a week we did not notice any improvement and went to our original vet (she had to stay home due to possible Covid-19 contamination). She performed again an ultrasound and an X-ray, nothing showed up. We had to continue with the Baytril, metacam and urocare. His behavior improved over the past weeks (more active and curious), but he is still gradually loosing weight. He went in two weeks from 1170 to 1094 this morning. He is also still urinating blood, though not visible to the eye, we tested it with special strips. His pee seems milky and is not clear.. We called the Vet again and have another appointment for next week. She wants to perform an ultrasound and X-ray again, however, I'm very sceptic it will help us. I asked for a urine-analysis.

Bear is currently eating around 40% of what he is normally eating and I syringe feed him 3-4 times a day with 15ML critical care. He does eat hay. They have a selection of Timothy Hay and regular hay.

Does anyone recognize these symptoms? Could it be something genetic since his brother also has bladder problems? I just want them to be happy and free of pain. Should I ask for any specific medicines or treatments at the Vet?

I hope you can help me and my piggies

 

[DMS260820]

I'm going through this with a sow at the moment, hers was 2 stones, one has been flushed out by the vet yesterday, and a micro one remains in the bladder still but its very tiny, and not dangerous, she could live fine like it or could need to go back later on. She also had loads of slush and was bleeding on and off for around a yer, which I thought wd intertestisl cystitis, but I'm not sure it ever was now.

 

[Boarmom]

Thank you for your reply And I'm sorry to hear that your sow also has bladder problems. How did they find out it was a stone? With an X-ray or an ultrasound? Bear has had 2 ultrasounds within 10 days, if there was something in his bladder, I assume they would have noticed it..

 

[DMS260820]

They were found on xray, and then she had a bladder flush. My vet tried to feel her bladder for them first but couldn't find any. so we tried antibiotics thinking it could be a uti, but she didn't fully get better within the 4 days she was on it. I still think has a uti that's clearing up now, she's still on the antibiotics (sulfatrim).

Loads of blood came out of her last night x but I've been assured it's normal after a flush. Sorry for the graphics. She's clear of blood so far now. View attachment 140602

 

[DMS260820]

Thank you for your reply And I'm sorry to hear that your sow also has bladder problems. How did they find out it was a stone? With an X-ray or an ultrasound? Bear has had 2 ultrasounds within 10 days, if there was something in his bladder, I assume they would have noticed it..

Sorry part 2 of my reply.

I don't know if an ultrasound can miss a stone, maybe it can if it's a micro one like My sow Dots one.

 

[Boarmom]

It looks horrible, but good to know that she got rid of her stone now! With us the x-ray also did not show any stones, so I'm rather hopeless. I hope the visit next week will give us some answers!

 

[Wiebke]

They were found on xray, and then she had a bladder flush. My vet tried to feel her bladder for them first but couldn't find any. so we tried antibiotics thinking it could be a uti, but she didn't fully get better within the 4 days she was on it. I still think has a uti that's clearing up now, she's still on the antibiotics (sulfatrim).

Loads of blood came out of her last night x but I've been assured it's normal after a flush. Sorry for the graphics. She's clear of blood so far now. View attachment 140602

Hi!

Could you please concentrate on the poster's problem. While we all sympathise, this is NOT the Chat section to tell others about your own issues which in this case have been ruled out as the poster's problem, @SkyPipDotBernie .

 

[Wiebke]

Hi all!

This is my first post here and I hope you guys are willing to give me some advice.

I have two Guinea Pigs (brothers) of two years old, Teddy and Bear. Teddy has been squeaking while peeing and pooping for almost a year now. We of course went to the vet multiple times and had X-rays done and ultrasounds, nothing showed up. We got some metacam and urocare. He is currently only on urocare.

Three weeks ago I noticed that there was blood on their bedding, I automatically assumed that it was coming from Teddy (due to his history), however, it was from his brother Bear. We immediately went to the Vet and they performed an ultrasound. His bladder was full with blood, no stones detected, and we were given Baytril, painkiller and metacam. After a week we did not notice any improvement and went to our original vet (she had to stay home due to possible Covid-19 contamination). She performed again an ultrasound and an X-ray, nothing showed up. We had to continue with the Baytril, metacam and urocare. His behavior improved over the past weeks (more active and curious), but he is still gradually loosing weight. He went in two weeks from 1170 to 1094 this morning. He is also still urinating blood, though not visible to the eye, we tested it with special strips. His pee seems milky and is not clear.. We called the Vet again and have another appointment for next week. She wants to perform an ultrasound and X-ray again, however, I'm very sceptic it will help us. I asked for a urine-analysis.

Bear is currently eating around 40% of what he is normally eating and I syringe feed him 3-4 times a day with 15ML critical care. He does eat hay. They have a selection of Timothy Hay and regular hay.

Does anyone recognize these symptoms? Could it be something genetic since his brother also has bladder problems? I just want them to be happy and free of pain. Should I ask for any specific medicines or treatments at the Vet?

I hope you can help me and my piggies

Have your vets considered a sterile interstitial cystititis (i.e. a non-bacterial recurring bladder infection)? It is a condition that has become a lot more common in guinea pigs over the last decade but is not well know outside vet circles that see guinea pigs often. Management (it cannot be healed) follows roughly along the lines of FSC (feline sterile cystitis) with plenty of glucosamine (which is classed as food supplement and not as medication; we recommend to use glucosamine based cat bladder food supplements like UK cystease capsules) and higher levels of metacam until the cystitis has come under control and during flare ups.
Recommended are the contents of 1 cystease capsule mixed with 2ml of water and syringed either half ever 12 hours or all in one go every 24 hours; please shake well before use.
For metacam IC piggies are generally prescribed 0.25 ml dog metacam twice daily (ideally every 12 hours) for a 1 kg piggy but dosages can go safely up to 0.4 ml twice daily in extreme pain for a short while.
In very strong cases of interstitial cystitis, cartrofen injections have been in recent research found to be effective but they are currently in trial use by UK vets so there has not been yet a regular use recommendation been established.

Please discuss this option and any medication with your vet. They may want to do their own research.
I have currently got some IC piggies myself (thankfully on the milder side).
Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

 

[DMS260820]

Hi!

Could you please concentrate on the poster's problem. While we all sympathise, this is NOT the Chat section to tell others about your own issues which in this case have been ruled out as the poster's problem, @SkyPipDotBernie .

Wasn't looking for sympathy, but I was being sympathetic towards this member because I know what crap she's going through. Please don't message me back. I am done here. Thankyou

 

[Boarmom]

Have your vets considered a sterile interstitial cystititis (i.e. a non-bacterial recurring bladder infection)? It is a condition that has become a lot more common in guinea pigs over the last decade but is not well know outside vet circles that see guinea pigs often. Management (it cannot be healed) follows roughly along the lines of FSC (feline sterile cystitis) with plenty of glucosamine (which is classed as food supplement and not as medication; we recommend to use glucosamine based cat bladder food supplements like UK cystease capsules) and higher levels of metacam until the cystitis has come under control and during flare ups.
Recommended are the contents of 1 cystease capsule mixed with 2ml of water and syringed either half ever 12 hours or all in one go every 24 hours; please shake well before use.
For metacam IC piggies are generally prescribed 0.25 ml dog metacam twice daily (ideally every 12 hours) for a 1 kg piggy but dosages can go safely up to 0.4 ml twice daily in extreme pain for a short while.
In very strong cases of interstitial cystitis, cartrofen injections have been in recent research found to be effective but they are currently in trial use by UK vets so there has not been yet a regular use recommendation been established.

Please discuss this option and any medication with your vet. They may want to do their own research.
I have currently got some IC piggies myself (thankfully on the milder side).
Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

Hi Wiebke, thank you for your detailed reply, much appreciated! I will certainly discuss this with our vet next week. Perhaps his brother has the same! With regard the cystease capsules, should he get it everyday for the rest of his life? Or is this only for a certain period? I also noticed that they sell tablets, but perhaps it is better to give it mixed with water in a syringe.

Lastly, is there a specific test that can diagnose interstitial cystitis? Or should we go through with, again, an ultrasound, x-ray and urine analysis?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Wiebke, thank you for your detailed reply, much appreciated! I will certainly discuss this with our vet next week. Perhaps his brother has the same! With regard the cystease capsules, should he get it everyday for the rest of his life? Or is this only for a certain period? I also noticed that they sell tablets, but perhaps it is better to give it mixed with water in a syringe.

Lastly, is there a specific test that can diagnose interstitial cystitis? Or should we go through with, again, an ultrasound, x-ray and urine analysis?

Sadly sterile cystitis can currently only be diagnosed by default after all the other issues (bacterial urine infection and bacterial cystitis, which both react to antibiotics and stone or sludge in the urinary tract have been all eliminated).

It will often go away on its own eventually, but you are looking more at a matter of years than months and in some cases, a lifetime. During that time you will get flare up (often ca. every two 2 months) where you may want up the metacam to the max and if necessary double the glucosamine as well. it may take initially a few weeks to bring it under control, though as the glucosamine takes time to build up.

The walls of the bladder and the urinary tract are coated with glucosamine to insulate the tissue against the corrosive urine. That is why it is so crucial.
You can use tablets, but it means that you need to crush them in a mortar with a pestle and then mix with the correct amount of water to get right dosage to syringe in order to make sure that your piggy is really getting what it needs. It is usually easier to empty a capsule... Your vet may want to give you a little medicine bottle for the mixing and shaking.

If it is a consolation for you, my Nerys had it for three years, then was totally free of any urinary tract problems another three years and died from old age at 8 years.

 

[Boarmom]

Wasn't looking for sympathy, but I was being sympathetic towards this member because I know what crap she's going through. Please don't message me back. I am done here. Thankyou

Sadly sterile cystitis can currently only be diagnosed by default after all the other issues (bacterial urine infection and bacterial cystitis, which both react to antibiotics and stone or sludge in the urinary tract have been all eliminated).

It will often go away on its own eventually, but you are looking more at a matter of years than months and in some cases, a lifetime. During that time you will get flare up (often ca. every two 2 months) where you may want up the metacam to the max and if necessary double the glucosamine as well. it may take initially a few weeks to bring it under control, though as the glucosamine takes time to build up.

The walls of the bladder and the urinary tract are coated with glucosamine to insulate the tissue against the corrosive urine. That is why it is so crucial.
You can use tablets, but it means that you need to crush them in a mortar with a pestle and then mix with the correct amount of water to get right dosage to syringe in order to make sure that your piggy is really getting what it needs. It is usually easier to empty a capsule... Your vet may want to give you a little medicine bottle for the mixing and shaking.

If it is a consolation for you, my Nerys had it for three years, then was totally free of any urinary tract problems another three years and died from old age at 8 years.

Okay, our vet did tell us that there is some sludge in the bladder but that it was minimal and that she doubts that same could be the cause of the bleeding. His brother, Teddy, was also diagnosed with minimal sludge, but also here, she said it was so minimal that it should not bother him, yet he is still squeaking.

I guess we will go through with all the tests and see if something comes out. If not, we will try cystease capsules.

It is good to hear that your piggy still lived so long and died of old age instead of health issues I have been so worried the last couple of weeks, so it is good to hear that there are still options/treatments to explore!

Thanks again

 

[Wiebke]

Okay, our vet did tell us that there is some sludge in the bladder but that it was minimal and that she doubts that same could be the cause of the bleeding. His brother, Teddy, was also diagnosed with minimal sludge, but also here, she said it was so minimal that it should not bother him, yet he is still squeaking.

I guess we will go through with all the tests and see if something comes out. If not, we will try cystease capsules.

It is good to hear that your piggy still lived so long and died of old age instead of health issues I have been so worried the last couple of weeks, so it is good to hear that there are still options/treatments to explore!

Thanks again

I would strongly recommend to start with the glucosamine now, as it is pretty much always part of the treatment for any recurring or longer term urinary tract problems. The walls are always impacted, and it does a lot in terms of comfort - but it is not an instant effect, so the sooner you start with it, the better. In my own experience, it can really make a difference in terms of comfort.

You may also want to review your diet: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets (with recommendations for guinea pigs with urinary tract problems in the special diet section).

 

[Boarmom]

I would strongly recommend to start with the glucosamine now, as it is pretty much always part of the treatment for any recurring or longer term urinary tract problems. The walls are always impacted, and it does a lot in terms of comfort - but it is not an instant effect, so the sooner you start with it, the better. In my own experience, it can really make a difference in terms of comfort.

You may also want to review your diet: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets (with recommendations for guinea pigs with urinary tract problems in the special diet section).

Okay, but does the glucosamine also have any negative effects? I would like to try it with his brother as well. I just need to be sure that it won't do them more harm than good. I will also check their diet. I already eliminated high calcium veggies, but it never harms to read more about it.