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Bladder stones

Hannahb2804

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Hi my piggies has been squeaking slightly when she urinates, she’s acting fine in herself and she’s eating fine and weeing fine it’s just the squeaking, didn’t want to risk it so i’ve taken her to the vets this morning and she had an ultrasound and they said ‘we can see tiny crystals and roughly 1mm stones so we’ll prescribe some medication’ so she’s been prescribed baytril and loxicom, i’ve fed her some today and it seems almost too easy? she sits and i put it in and she frantically licks for a few seconds and then she’s fine, am i doing it correctly or do i need to put it further down her throat?
can anyone give me any tips on anything to make sure they go and she doesn’t get bigger stones, feel awful this has happened but want to make sure she’s going to be okay

any tips please!
 
Some piggies are prone to them (genetics) while with others it could be diet. Filtering water and limiting pellets to the one tablespoon a day. Limiting high calcium veg such as kale, spinach and parsley. You can’t (and shouldn’t) cut calcium out completely but can limit it.

What’s the plan? Are they waiting to see if she passes it?
 
Some piggies are prone to them (genetics) while with others it could be diet. Filtering water and limiting pellets to the one tablespoon a day. Limiting high calcium veg such as kale, spinach and parsley. You can’t (and shouldn’t) cut calcium out completely but can limit it.

What’s the plan? Are they waiting to see if she passes it?
so they’ve given anti biotics, they said that as they’re so tiny they should pass it and with the help of medication and cutting down on calcium veg, i have been giving them parsley quite abit and she has a tendency to eat my other piggie’s food, they said to come back in 7 days and check how things are i think they said if she still squeaks when weeing they’ll do a wee sample etc , they eat quite a few pea flakes too are they high in calcium?
 
i also don’t know how to change the title as it’s not uti crystals i meant to put bladder stones
 
I’ve changed the title for you. Yes pea flakes are a treat rather than a regular thing to be feeding. Hope she passes them soon.
 
I’ve changed the title for you. Yes pea flakes are a treat rather than a regular thing to be feeding. Hope she passes them soon.
do you have any advice? is she going to be okay it’s really upset me i just want to make sure she’ll be okay, honestly any tips welcome ! x
 
do you have any advice? is she going to be okay it’s really upset me i just want to make sure she’ll be okay, honestly any tips welcome ! x

As well as ensuring high calcium foods are kept limited, be mindful of pellets and their water. Pellets and unfiltered drinking water can contain more calcium than the highest calcium veg (kale), so checking the pellets you feed (that they are as low in calcium as possible, and are ideally grain free), and filtering drinking water can also go a way towards limiting calcium intake. There is also a genetic factor but obviously there isn’t anything you can do about that.
 
As well as ensuring high calcium foods are kept limited, be mindful of pellets and their water. Pellets and unfiltered drinking water can contain more calcium than the highest calcium veg (kale), so checking the pellets you feed (that they are as low in calcium as possible, and are ideally grain free), and filtering drinking water can also go a way towards limiting calcium intake. There is also a genetic factor but obviously there isn’t anything you can do about that.
i feed the grain free selective natural pellets are they okay? what veg do i need to avoid
 
i feed the grain free selective natural pellets are they okay? what veg do i need to avoid

Yes, they are ok, they are the lowest calcium available but they do still contain a lot of calcium. Ensure you keep it limited to no more than one tablespoon of pellets per piggy per day.
High calcium veggies are kale, parsley, spinach. Dill is also higher in calcium and so are dandelions.
 
One of our girls was really quite poorly with a bladder stone last year - she's been on meloxicam a glucosamine supplement ever since and, after we got her stable, has been and still is living with it perfectly happily. Many other forum piggies, especially sows, have had surgery to remove them. Neither choice is guaranteed risk free, sadly.

Take a deep breath. You've recognised a potential issue, have had it assessed and are now managing it under veterinary advice. Nobody can promise you she'll be OK, but we CAN say you're doing everything an owner could or should be doing to give her the best possible chance :nod:
 
One of our girls was really quite poorly with a bladder stone last year - she's been on meloxicam a glucosamine supplement ever since and, after we got her stable, has been and still is living with it perfectly happily. Many other forum piggies, especially sows, have had surgery to remove them. Neither choice is guaranteed risk free, sadly.

Take a deep breath. You've recognised a potential issue, have had it assessed and are now managing it under veterinary advice. Nobody can promise you she'll be OK, but we CAN say you're doing everything an owner could or should be doing to give her the best possible chance :nod:
thank you for this you don’t realise that’s made me feel so much better, as they’re rescues i just want them to have the best possible life but thank you so much! to all of you! x
 
She can pass 1mm if they sit in the right place. The vets have a few alternatives. Some options we've had are:
1. Wait and See (like what you're doing) with effective painkiller (eg 1kilo pig - 0.2ish mls 'dog' metacam (1.5mg/ml) - twice a day)
2. If it's wedged in the urethra they can sometimes fish out with forceps in a sow (Snowflake's was 6mmx4mm and all spikes!). Unpleasant but quick.
3. A fluid bolus injected under the skin (volume between 5 and 10 mls so it looks like a massive lump) coupled with - in our case - an injection of opioid painkiller. Poor Ivy was totally out of it for quite a few hours which was very upsetting to see. She also peed like a tap. If she passed her stone I didn't find it but it was gone on the next x-ray. We'd gone in the first place because she'd suddenly squeaked and peed a small puddle of what looked like neat blood so we think there was definitely an initial stone passed naturally.
4. Surgery.

In Ivy's case when I looked at the x-ray I wasn't entirely convinced it was a stone. I asked if it could be an accumulation of sludge in the tube where the urethra leaves the bladder and they said it might be. I only thought that because it seemed to be a small and neat 'bullet' shape as opposed to Snowflake's ninja death star. The fluid bolus blew her tubes clear anyway.

Anything which makes them pee less or hold in the pee restricts the flow and sludge can accumulate making it more likely to get stones forming. UTI makes them hold it in because it hurts to pee so prompt treatment of UTI with antibiotics is good - both my girls were effectively treated with antibiotics for UTI. Snowflake didn't get another stone - or if she did she didn't tell me - and she passed when she was 5. Ivy also didn't get another although we tried to get her to drink more by putting water bottles pointing in the hidey where she slept so she didn't have to come out in the open to drink when it was dark... this worked for her and she often woke me at night with her teeth on the water bottle. Their cage mates didn't get stones and were presumably eating/drinking the same things.

Baytril tastes grim... fortunately metacam painkiller is delicious and they will fight for the syringe!

My vet said she fed bell pepper to help prevent formation of calcium stones but also said it wasn't known for sure... just rumours. Snowflake had been getting a lot of celery which some people are wary of, so we began to avoid this and to give a good lump of bell pepper each day (about 1/4 to 1/8th depending on size of pepper). We also started to give 'soft' bottled water - our water area is so hard that even filtered water was higher calcium than the bottled we found. Look for Ca on the back of the label and google your water company - some areas of the UK actually have soft tap water anyway (you can put your location on the info bit on the LHS of the screen if you like). Watery veg like cucumber increases fluid intake. Wash veg before they get it to make it nice and wet. Keep 'them peeing! Good luck tiny girl 💕
 
She can pass 1mm if they sit in the right place. The vets have a few alternatives. Some options we've had are:
1. Wait and See (like what you're doing) with effective painkiller (eg 1kilo pig - 0.2ish mls 'dog' metacam (1.5mg/ml) - twice a day)
2. If it's wedged in the urethra they can sometimes fish out with forceps in a sow (Snowflake's was 6mmx4mm and all spikes!). Unpleasant but quick.
3. A fluid bolus injected under the skin (volume between 5 and 10 mls so it looks like a massive lump) coupled with - in our case - an injection of opioid painkiller. Poor Ivy was totally out of it for quite a few hours which was very upsetting to see. She also peed like a tap. If she passed her stone I didn't find it but it was gone on the next x-ray. We'd gone in the first place because she'd suddenly squeaked and peed a small puddle of what looked like neat blood so we think there was definitely an initial stone passed naturally.
4. Surgery.

In Ivy's case when I looked at the x-ray I wasn't entirely convinced it was a stone. I asked if it could be an accumulation of sludge in the tube where the urethra leaves the bladder and they said it might be. I only thought that because it seemed to be a small and neat 'bullet' shape as opposed to Snowflake's ninja death star. The fluid bolus blew her tubes clear anyway.

Anything which makes them pee less or hold in the pee restricts the flow and sludge can accumulate making it more likely to get stones forming. UTI makes them hold it in because it hurts to pee so prompt treatment of UTI with antibiotics is good - both my girls were effectively treated with antibiotics for UTI. Snowflake didn't get another stone - or if she did she didn't tell me - and she passed when she was 5. Ivy also didn't get another although we tried to get her to drink more by putting water bottles pointing in the hidey where she slept so she didn't have to come out in the open to drink when it was dark... this worked for her and she often woke me at night with her teeth on the water bottle. Their cage mates didn't get stones and were presumably eating/drinking the same things.

Baytril tastes grim... fortunately metacam painkiller is delicious and they will fight for the syringe!

My vet said she fed bell pepper to help prevent formation of calcium stones but also said it wasn't known for sure... just rumours. Snowflake had been getting a lot of celery which some people are wary of, so we began to avoid this and to give a good lump of bell pepper each day (about 1/4 to 1/8th depending on size of pepper). We also started to give 'soft' bottled water - our water area is so hard that even filtered water was higher calcium than the bottled we found. Look for Ca on the back of the label and google your water company - some areas of the UK actually have soft tap water anyway (you can put your location on the info bit on the LHS of the screen if you like). Watery veg like cucumber increases fluid intake. Wash veg before they get it to make it nice and wet. Keep 'them peeing! Good luck tiny girl 💕
That’s amazing thank you! what veg has the lowest calcium please? struggling on what i should feed her
 
If i purchase a water filter will that help in terms of lowering calcium intake or is there a special one i have to get ? xx
 
If i purchase a water filter will that help in terms of lowering calcium intake or is there a special one i have to get ? xx

Just a normal water filter, Brita for example, but you can get cheaper ones, does the job.
 
I'm glad you're feeling more positive about things. It's such a shock to get the diagnosis but although we do as much as we can with diet there are always going to be some piggies more prone to the calcium sludge and stones. It doesn't mean things will necessarily recur though. As hard as it seems if they are big pellet munchers, trying to reduce these gradually to the 1 tbsp per day will have an effect. I'm not sure what this is in grams - @Piggies&buns do you know?

I've learned that even the higher calcium veg isn't as high as the pellets and I think this is because Ca is calculated as the proportion of dry-weight veg when of course most veg is full of water and not dehydrated! We still avoid spinach and chard though.

My pigs favourite of all the things we give them is.... grass! We go out every morning and find fresh grass to pull - you have to be careful to avoid dog areas though as dog pee is toxic for piggies. They get so worked up when we get in from the 'grass run' that I feel guilty for enjoying my walk and not running home!
 
I'm glad you're feeling more positive about things. It's such a shock to get the diagnosis but although we do as much as we can with diet there are always going to be some piggies more prone to the calcium sludge and stones. It doesn't mean things will necessarily recur though. As hard as it seems if they are big pellet munchers, trying to reduce these gradually to the 1 tbsp per day will have an effect. I'm not sure what this is in grams - @Piggies&buns do you know?

I've learned that even the higher calcium veg isn't as high as the pellets and I think this is because Ca is calculated as the proportion of dry-weight veg when of course most veg is full of water and not dehydrated! We still avoid spinach and chard though.

My pigs favourite of all the things we give them is.... grass! We go out every morning and find fresh grass to pull - you have to be careful to avoid dog areas though as dog pee is toxic for piggies. They get so worked up when we get in from the 'grass run' that I feel guilty for enjoying my walk and not running home!
i do give them 1tbsp but as they eat it during the day until dinner too i’m not sure if one is eating more than the other ( looks like she’s been eating more than she should lol ) is lettuce something that can be fed as i know this holds quite abit of water once wet too so will help with water intake?
 
Lettuce is pretty harmless - it's there in the list somewhere - but avoid iceberg. My boar has dicky bowels so it's actually something we avoid as he loves it but if he has too much it makes his poop squishy and he gets bunged up (and has to be unbunged - ahem). Cucumber he can eat though and that's nice and watery. And we really get through those peppers!

We actually use bottled water rather than filtered. We've found one that's got about 3 units of calcium as opposed to our tap water which is 300ish! It's actually really nice - but too expensive for us thirsty humans so we just have tap water. I've found mine drink more from glass bottles than the plastic ones - whether it affects the taste or just flows out easier I don't know. You can tell which ones George is using because they get a nice scummy spout ring and some pellet blowback! Flora is very tolerant of him sometimes... :roll:
 
. As hard as it seems if they are big pellet munchers, trying to reduce these gradually to the 1 tbsp per day will have an effect. I'm not sure what this is in grams - @Piggies&buns do you know?

Yes I do know! I’ve fed several different brands to mine until finally settling on one.
I used to give mine Burgess and SS grain free until I switched to Haybox pellets (due to the fact Haybox are 100% grass pellets, cold compressed, grain and soy free)

One tablespoon of ss grain free (and the Burgess) is just 6g. It amounts to 30 individual pellets.
One tablespoon is fine to give per day, but I always give less, they’d get around half a tablespoon each even now with the haybox pellets (it amounts to around 6/8 pellets each and I also don’t give pellets every day (they only get them a few times a week, it’ll be less in summer when they are on the lawn 14 hours daily).

Mine get just half an hour to eat their pellets and then any that are left uneaten are removed. I don’t see any benefit in leaving them with access to them all day even if they don’t eat the one tablespoon. It would be like leaving my children with access to the treat jar and then offering them an apple!

The ss pellets, even as low calcium pellets, still contain more calcium than kale (highest calcium veg), but the calcium absorption process is a complicated one. Its actually about the calcium to phosphorous ratio which is incredibly complicated. There is also the genetic element which obviously we can do nothing about. Therefore, all we can really do as owners is limit calcium intake (through limiting pellets, filtering their water, and keeping high calcium veg limited), feeding them their natural diet (hay and grass) and keeping the bladder flushed through by offering a wet diet.
 

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just thought i’d update you all. Dougal is doing amazing, she’s actually started wheeking now as she didn’t do that before so i’m happy she’s happy, she popcorns and runs about like she’s fine. no more sqealing when she’s weeing, managed to buy a water filter so she has filtered water, going to take her to the vets again in the coming week to make sure all is healthy again, thank you all for the tips I’d have panicked more if you didn’t support me! lots of love x
 
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